RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21
Stacy Smith wrote: --- Can someone explain to me how there could be total freedom of religion with people observing the Mosaic law? How can there have been a command against blasphemy and a death sentence if conditions like Alma portrays were true? How could there have been a climate of religious freedom? --- Book of Mormon culture in this period appears to have far transcended the Law of Moses. As we can see from the context of the story in Alma 1, the rules of Nephite society during that period were much more liberal than in the most strict legalistic Jewish culture. In fact conditions seemed to more closely parallel those in the early Christian Church. The apostle Paul wrote about the Jews, ..."the law was a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ." Apparently the Law of Moses had a different effect on Nephite society than it seems to have had on the Jews during the same period. --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] algore
Apparently Al Gore will announce that he won't be in the run for President in 2004. Perhaps now the Dems will promote someone decent. --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] algore
Jim Cobabe wrote: > > Perhaps now the Dems will promote someone decent. They could do worse than Tipper. If she could only get rid of that Al guy. *jeep! --Chet "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible." // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] algore
It would be interesting to see a woman running the White House but I would be against such a move. I don't believe women should be in leadership of government at the federal level. Stacy. At 12:08 AM 12/16/2002 +, you wrote: Jim Cobabe wrote: > > Perhaps now the Dems will promote someone decent. They could do worse than Tipper. If she could only get rid of that Al guy. *jeep! --Chet "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible." // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Just Finished Reading BEHOLD THE MAN by Jerald Lund
Hi. I just finished reading the third novel by Jerald Lund on the life of Christ. I was particularly interested in his chapter notes on all three books. Now it's back to the grind and normal study materials. I have to go back to studying such mundane computer lessons and, of course, continue to read the general conference talks by our leaders. Then there's other things to explore if I ever get the chance, but I think it would take a lifetime just to read everything there is to read by the GAs. If I get any chances in between I may read other authors, but I think this is just about it for me. I've even decided to give up most television watching in favor of reading and listening to these leaders long term. I truly believe they have long-term knowledge of future events and will in the end be able to look at all pertinent issues before another government gets established. It's obvious there are differences of opinion even in the church. I'll be interested to see what kind of government gets established and if any of us can have any input. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Calling A Trip To Salt Lake City A Pilgrimage?
Would any of you consider visiting historic LDS sites a pilgrimage? This is a new idea to me. What does anyone think of this? Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] "Christmas discount"/Roast of the Groom
Just a little, funny story from our weekend to precede a "roast of the groom" with. Thursday our oldest son, and 3rd child, Jared, got married to LeeAnn Valgardson, from a pioneering Icelandic family of Taber, "sugar beet capital of Canada," east of Lethbridge, Alberta. They were married in the Edmonton temple in the early evening, and I was able to see the sealing room there for the first time. The Cardston temple, which used to be "my" temple (and will always be, in many ways), has 4 sealing rooms, but it seems all the new "mini-temples," while they only have 2 sealing rooms, have one which is a fair bit larger than the others, with 3 rows of chairs on each side of the altar. When the sealer showed an envelope, filled with the Proclamation on the Family, their Alberta marriage licence and the temple wedding certificate, he told them it wasn't a good idea to lose this documentation, especially the marriage licence, and asked which of the two was the more responsible. My wife immediately pointed to LeeAnn. We saw some old friends Saturday at the reception in Taber. Originally from southern Alberta pioneer families, they had become accustomed to Ottawa (which is where we knew them from), but had recently decided to move back to a small Mormon town best known for its basketball players. They were recently in the paper for a court challenge they were mounting against the local school district on behalf of their 205-cm tall son (long story), but when they showed up in the lineup it was hugs all 'round, as I had not seen them since a business trip to Ottawa some 6 years ago. He used to be our bishop and also our dentist, and she's a vivacious, sophisticated and very striking woman. We found out that they left the reception in Taber to go to Medicine Hat, and were trying to get back to their hometown this morning (Sunday) in time for 09:00 Sacrament, so with her driving with her big-city lead foot, it was inevitable that they got stopped by the Mounties for speeding just outside Lethbridge. The mountie said he appreciated they were trying to get to church, and because of the time of year, he was giving them "the Christmas discount" and cut their fine in half: to $100. One wonders just how fast she was going on a 100 kph highway! One other thing we can tease her about. She is *not* enjoying small town life and longs for the big city again. Fortunately, she said, Calgary is only 2 hours away (a bit less if you use the "Granum gap" shortcut that we learned today to get around Fort Macleod). Well, anyway, just to share with everyone, here's the written version of my toast to the groom, although it's only a guide -- I always ad lib according to whim and sometimes even the Spirit, and pretended that I had been asked to "roast" the groom, but was only informed on my way up by my wife that it was a "toast" to the groom (that was my shtick; my brother, Craig -- whom Tom knows -- was the MC, and together we work a bit like the Smothers Brothers. We play to each other but in a way that makes it look like we keep misunderstanding each other. As Craig said to Jared after my toast, "Jared, if you ever want revenge on your Dad, let me know, and I'll tell you all kinds of stories...and some of them are even true.") ROAST OF THE GROOM On the way up here I was informed that I was supposed to give a toast to the groom. Unfortunately, when I was first given this assignment, I didnt hear it properly, and at first I thought it was supposed to be the rest of the broom but I dont even know where we keep the broom in our place, so I assumed it was meant to be the roast of the groom. Its too late to change now, so Jared is about to be served up well-done. And he'll certainly be toast when I'm done with him. I think with a dash of HP sauce youll find him palatable. If not, try ketchup. If that doesnt work, try more ketchup. Ketchup fixes everything. And what it wont fix, duct tape or WD-40 will. I got that from an expert on TV. [the cognescenti will recognize the allusion to Red Green]. When Jared was first born, in Foothills Hospital in Calgary, he had these huge brown, puppy-dog eyes, and while all the nurses were cooing over him, Oh, what a little cutie pie, I was thinking, Oh, I dunno, he looks all shrivelled and purple, just like all the other kids did. But even I noticed the eyes, so I nicknamed him Tootsie Roll you know, those big brown candies and later, Gopher, since gophers have such big brown eyes, too. It was meant as an affectionate nickname, and I think he took it that way until a cousin from Cardston went and wrecked it all by telling Jared, who grew up in Ottawa, that in Alberta they shoot gophers. Well, we wouldnt know up in Edmonton. We dont have many gophers up there except for the ones who work for the government. Okay, now I get it they are varmints. Finally, after more than 20 years, I think I see why Gopher, er, I mean, Jared, objected to it. But it could have been worse. He could h
Re: [ZION] Calling A Trip To Salt Lake City A Pilgrimage?
What is a pilgrimage to you? Jon Stacy Smith wrote: > Would any of you consider visiting historic LDS sites a pilgrimage? This > is a new idea to me. What does anyone think of this? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Calling A Trip To Salt Lake City A Pilgrimage?
A pilgrimage, I am not exactly sure. If it is a requirement for the faithful, then no. If it is to get a sense of our practice, faith and culture I guess I'd have to say yes, but in reality I'm not sure. Stacy. At 11:51 PM 12/15/2002 -0500, you wrote: What is a pilgrimage to you? Jon Stacy Smith wrote: > Would any of you consider visiting historic LDS sites a pilgrimage? This > is a new idea to me. What does anyone think of this? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] algore
Late breaking news...well, actually, late-breaking notice of the thread for various reasons (not only did I have a wedding Thursday through Sunday that kept me busy, but I was offline for a while thanks to Windows ME and ZoneAlarm not working well together). At any rate, I know this might be like asking Baptists what they think of John Paul II's eventual successors, but I read an interesting article on John Kerrey (I hope I have spelled that right -- I know there's a US politician with a similar-sounding name), and also read today that Kerrey has officially announced his run for the presidency in 2004. Apparently he was waiting to see what Gore would do (he didn't want to run against him). Apparently one of Kerrey's political heroes is none other than John McCain. It would be interesting. But what do you populae australae [people south of the border] think of Kerrey? Chet wrote: > Jim Cobabe wrote: > > > > Perhaps now the Dems will promote someone decent. > > They could do worse than Tipper. If she could only get rid of that Al > guy. > > *jeep! > --Chet > "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you > are doing the impossible." > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Calling A Trip To Salt Lake City A Pilgrimage?
I personally associate a negative connotation with the pilgrimage when attached to our Church. A pilgrimage to see BY's home or to visit historical places seems to connote a sense of worship for these things. But I also have a sense of awe, respect and gratitude when I visit Church historical sites. Perhaps that does make these visits pilgrimages even though I don't like to call them such! So, you see, I am completely confused! But I still feel uncomfortable calling them pilgrimages for some mystical unknown reason. You mileage may DEFINITELY vary! Jon Stacy Smith wrote: > A pilgrimage, I am not exactly sure. If it is a requirement for the > faithful, then no. If it is to get a sense of our practice, faith and > culture I guess I'd have to say yes, but in reality I'm not sure. Jon wrote: > >What is a pilgrimage to you? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] LOTR Two Towers
Johnna Cornett favored us with: Reading two of the books a measure of fan status? I'm running into geek rating. I've read the entire LOTR trilogy four times in the last thirteen months. Too me, the dividing line between the fans and the fanatics is learning elvish. This tells me something about you, Johnna. It tells me that you read faster than I do. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] My visit to SLC
I'm enjoying my visit to SLC. Tomorrow night (Monday), I'll be seeing the Temple Square lights. If any of you are out there, I'll be the one with a group of people. I'll also be wearing a green London Fog winter coat (not a trench coat), with small orange labels saying "London Fog" and white stripes. I have a slight beard on my face, and small roundish glasses. Anyone care to take a stab at finding me? K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Curiosity about Alma 1:21
The Nephite nation by this time had separated its religious and political spheres. There were many who did not belong to the Church and so were not bound by the Mosaic Law, which is why Alma only had the power to excommunicate. The death penalty was given only by the chief judge. Death penalty under the Mosaic Law in Israel ceased to work efficiently after just a few hundred years. Israelites in the Book of Judges were already committing adultery and idolatry, and no death penalty was sought. King David should have been stoned, but the Lord allowed him to live. Though the law was there, it often was not followed closely, as the Israelites mingled with other nations. At this point in Alma, the Nephites had begun to mingle with Mulekites, and who knows what other nations in the Americas. The Mosaic Law was not forced upon these people. Rather, they were given freedom to choose how they would worship. Worship of conscience was not against the law, nor punishable by the Nephite system of judges- only actions like that taken by Nehor (murdering Gideon) was used to incite the death penalty. The law given to Noah also demanded the death penalty for murderers, but we don't see the prophets pushing for the death penalty to be strictly enforced. Such a command is a minor one, compared to the rites and ordinances proscribed by the law. Remember, the Mosaic law was not the end-all law. It was a terrestrial law given as a stop gap measure until the people were more prepared to hear the celestial law of Christ. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Stacy: Can someone explain to me how there could be total freedom of religion with people observing the Mosaic law? How can there have been a command against blasphemy and a death sentence if conditions like Alma portrays were true? How could there have been a climate of religious freedom? Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Curiosity about Alma 1:21
It had just occurred to me that it seemed that the Mosaic law, if properly followed, never allowed for true freedom. Am I really right on that one? If that is the case, wouldn't one say that that law was a law of force? Stacy. At 12:34 AM 12/16/2002 -0600, you wrote: The Nephite nation by this time had separated its religious and political spheres. There were many who did not belong to the Church and so were not bound by the Mosaic Law, which is why Alma only had the power to excommunicate. The death penalty was given only by the chief judge. Death penalty under the Mosaic Law in Israel ceased to work efficiently after just a few hundred years. Israelites in the Book of Judges were already committing adultery and idolatry, and no death penalty was sought. King David should have been stoned, but the Lord allowed him to live. Though the law was there, it often was not followed closely, as the Israelites mingled with other nations. At this point in Alma, the Nephites had begun to mingle with Mulekites, and who knows what other nations in the Americas. The Mosaic Law was not forced upon these people. Rather, they were given freedom to choose how they would worship. Worship of conscience was not against the law, nor punishable by the Nephite system of judges- only actions like that taken by Nehor (murdering Gideon) was used to incite the death penalty. The law given to Noah also demanded the death penalty for murderers, but we don't see the prophets pushing for the death penalty to be strictly enforced. Such a command is a minor one, compared to the rites and ordinances proscribed by the law. Remember, the Mosaic law was not the end-all law. It was a terrestrial law given as a stop gap measure until the people were more prepared to hear the celestial law of Christ. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Stacy: Can someone explain to me how there could be total freedom of religion with people observing the Mosaic law? How can there have been a command against blasphemy and a death sentence if conditions like Alma portrays were true? How could there have been a climate of religious freedom? Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
