Re: [ZION] Constitutional Losses
This is probably one of the most poorly reported prophecies of Joseph Smith. We need to remember that the Prophet gave this statement before the days of any reasonably accurate recording device, including shorthand. As a result, the basic facts may vary widely. The basis of the prophecy, however, is pretty plain. We are in for very hard times, and our basic liberties will be under increasingly greater attack. Harold Stuart On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 08:57 PM, Steven Montgomery wrote: At 09:32 PM 5/27/2003, you wrote: Doesn't prophesy say that the Elders will save it? Jon There are different versions and remembrances of Joseph Smith's statement (Given on July 19th 1840). Orson Hyde, in recalling Joseph Smith's words, put it this way: I believe he said something like this--that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of overthrow; and said he: 'If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church.' I believe this is about the language, an nearly as I can recollect it. (See JD 6: 152) If Hyde's version is correct then this makes the prophecy conditional. However, to be fair, President Ezra Taft Benson liked the version recorded by Martha Jane Knowleton, which is more explicit that the Constitution will be saved. Knowleton's version is this: Even this nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground; and when the Constitution is upon the brink of ruin, this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean; and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction. I say, how can the Constitution be saved by the Elders of Israel when many of them don't even know its basic precepts? For instance, how many Elders know the reason the Founders setup the Electoral College the way they did? Or the reason that originally, before the 17th amendment, that Senators were elected by State legislatures? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is no accident, then, that so many who gathered at Philadelphia to declare independence and a decade later to draft a constitution were men who had apprenticed themselves to Thucydides, Plato, Aristotle, Polybius, and Cicero, and who could debate at length on the various constitutional forms of the classical world before they chose one for the new American nation. We owe our very existence as a people in great part to classical learning.T. L. Simmons // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// // /// // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Constitutional Losses
I have most of the writings of Joseph Smith. I'm going to hunt up what was said. Stacy. At 12:42 AM 05/28/2003 -0700, you wrote: This is probably one of the most poorly reported prophecies of Joseph Smith. We need to remember that the Prophet gave this statement before the days of any reasonably accurate recording device, including shorthand. As a result, the basic facts may vary widely. The basis of the prophecy, however, is pretty plain. We are in for very hard times, and our basic liberties will be under increasingly greater attack. Harold Stuart // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Constitutional Losses
Before our current attacks from terrorists I wasn't worried about any freedoms being jeopardized. Now with the threat of Al Queda and other groups getting to us and the likelihood that more attacks like 9/11 I think we can look forward to such. Stacy. At 09:06 PM 05/27/2003 -0600, you wrote: At 08:19 PM 5/27/2003, you wrote: It makes me wonder, can it really be long before the Elders of the Church have to save the constitution? Scott . . . if it can be saved at all. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . today the Christian Constitutionalist weeps as he walks about his country. He sees the spiritual and political faith of his fathers betrayed, by wolves in sheep's garments. He sees the forces of evil increasing in strength and momentum under the leadership of Satan, the archenemy of freedom. ---Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1967. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 03/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Composing a letter to the Church
Producing braille materials and cassettes may be more costly in the long run than computerizing. Stacy. At 09:58 PM 05/27/2003 -0500, you wrote: I never said you were the only one who wants to see this happen. What I did say is that there may not be enough blind people wanting Church publications accessible to the blind on computer to make it financially feasible. The Church has to weigh the needs of all people's access to the scriptures and other manuals, and spend the money in the most cost effective way to reach the most people it can. If the Church has $1 million dollars to spend, and there are 10,000 blind people wanting additional access, or the Church can use the million to translate the Book of Mormon into a language for 1 million people; where should the Church spend the million dollars? It isn't that there isn't a demand for more access for the blind, but whether there is enough to bump other worthy projects in order to provide the scarce funds. K'aya K'ama, Gerald (Gary) Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html LDS Evidences, Family History, Food Storage, etc. Stacy: You wrongly suppose I might be the only one who wants to see this happen. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 03/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] I'm all shook up.
Vacuum-packed MREs. Stacy. At 10:48 PM 05/27/2003 -0400, you wrote: I guess the moral of the story is to ensure that your food storage is stored in waterproof containers. Jon Ronn! Blankenship wrote: It could have been be worse . . . http://www.ucsc.edu/news_events/press_releases/text.asp?pid=355 May 27, 2003 Contact: Tim Stephens (831) 459-2495; [EMAIL PROTECTED] UC Santa Cruz Press Release Massive tsunami sweeps Atlantic Coast in asteroid impact scenario for March 16, 2880 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE SANTA CRUZ, CA--If an asteroid crashes into the Earth, it is likely to splash down somewhere in the oceans that cover 70 percent of the planet's surface. Huge tsunami waves, spreading out from the impact site like the ripples from a rock tossed into a pond, would inundate heavily populated coastal areas. A computer simulation of an asteroid impact tsunami developed by scientists at the University of California, Santa Cruz, shows waves as high as 400 feet sweeping onto the Atlantic Coast of the United States. The researchers based their simulation on a real asteroid known to be on course for a close encounter with Earth eight centuries from now. Steven Ward, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics at UCSC, and Erik Asphaug, an associate professor of Earth sciences, report their findings in the June issue of the Geophysical Journal International. March 16, 2880, is the day the asteroid known as 1950 DA, a huge rock two-thirds of a mile in diameter, is due to swing so close to Earth it could slam into the Atlantic Ocean at 38,000 miles per hour. The probability of a direct hit is pretty small, but over the long timescales of Earth's history, asteroids this size and larger have periodically hammered the planet, sometimes with calamitous effects. The so-called K/T impact, for example, ended the age of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. From a geologic perspective, events like this have happened many times in the past. Asteroids the size of 1950 DA have probably struck the Earth about 600 times since the age of the dinosaurs, Ward said. Ward and Asphaug's study is part of a general effort to conduct a rational assessment of asteroid impact hazards. Asphaug, who organized a NASA-sponsored scientific workshop on asteroids last year, noted that asteroid risks are interesting because the probabilities are so small while the potential consequences are enormous. Furthermore, the laws of orbital mechanics make it possible for scientists to predict an impact if they are able to detect the asteroid in advance. It's like knowing the exact time when Mount Shasta will erupt, Asphaug said. The way to deal with any natural hazard is to improve our knowledge base, so we can turn the kind of human fear that gets played on in the movies into something that we have a handle on. Although the probability of an impact from 1950 DA is only about 0.3 percent, it is the only asteroid yet detected that scientists cannot entirely dismiss as a threat. A team of scientists led by researchers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory reported on the probability of 1950 DA crossing paths with the Earth in the April 5, 2002, issue of the journal Science. It's a low threat, actually a bit lower than the threat of being hit by an as-yet-undiscovered asteroid in the same size range over the same period of time, but it provided a good representative scenario for us to analyze, Asphaug said. For the simulation, the researchers chose an impact site consistent with the orientation of the Earth at the time of the predicted encounter: in the Atlantic Ocean about 360 miles from the U.S. coast. Ward summarized the results as follows: The 60,000-megaton blast of the impact vaporizes the asteroid and blows a cavity in the ocean 11 miles across and all the way down to the seafloor, which is about 3 miles deep at that point. The blast even excavates some of the seafloor. Water then rushes back in to fill the cavity, and a ring of waves spreads out in all directions. The impact creates tsunami waves of all frequencies and wavelengths, with a peak wavelength about the same as the diameter of the cavity. Because lower-frequency waves travel faster than waves with higher frequencies, the initial impulse spreads out into a series of waves. In the movies they show one big wave, but you actually end up with dozens of waves. The first ones to arrive are pretty small, and they gradually increase in height, arriving at intervals of 3 or 4 minutes, Ward said. The waves propagate all through the Atlantic Ocean and the Caribbean. The waves decay as they travel, so coastal areas closest to the impact get hit by the largest waves. Two hours after impact, 400-foot waves reach beaches from Cape Cod to Cape Hatteras, and by four hours after impact the entire East Coast has experienced waves at least 200 feet high, Ward said. It takes 8 hours for the waves to reach Europe, where they come ashore at heights of about 30 to 50 feet. Computer simulations
Re: [ZION] Constitutional Losses
Well, I'd like more verification that this is actually taking place. I understand that censored e-mails have just been a joke. I'd like to have verification that the government is keeping tabs on what I am doing at the Braille Institute, for example, or what I'm doing in my doctor's office. Or how about what books I download off the NLS web braille site? I'd like verification of what is happening. Stacy. At 02:35 PM 05/27/2003 -0500, you wrote: Okay Zionisti: For a long time, I have perused and mused as I read John Redelfs' thoughts on conspiricy theories. You see, I grew up with a dad who spoke very much the way John does, and so, as progeny often will, I intentionally went opposite in my thinking from where my dad was. See, I had this altruistic view of our government, that they wouldn't intentionally do things that would harm us. My dad must have read one too many books etc. etc. Now-- ever since 9/11 I feel that our government has been doing its darndest to, not gently erode the constitution, but to take massive chunks of our freedoms under the thinly guised pretense of protecting us. This has bothered me for some time, and I get uneasy everytime I hear people say I understand why they need to search my body for hidden weapons. . .blah blah blah [or should I say baaa baaa baaa]. Tonight, though, came the straw. Under the provisions of the Patriot Act (sounds so. . .patriotic!) the feds can, at will, check out what you are reading and checking out at your library!! This includes not only books, but ANYTHING you've read on the Internet. Of course, they say that it is only used for suspected terrorists etc., but come on!! The news also reported that they can find out what you've been buying at the book stores as well--under the provisions of the Patriot Act. Our founding fathers must be having fits as they watch the masses accept this with nothing more than a shrug of the shoulders and a quick Oh well. Does anyone else see this or feel the same way? Or do I need to get a prescription for Prozac? your cynical sis in Mishawaka val .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 03/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
