Re: [ZION] Danites
I know. Isn't it too bad we're often plagued with their legacy? Stacy. At 04:12 AM 06/20/2003 +0800, you wrote: The Danites did exist but were neither condoned nor organized by Joseph Smith. They were bad guys. Anyone who wants to know more can either use Google, or if that gives too many leads to follow up then ask and I will post more. Danites were bad. Not Christian. Mistaken. Wrong. Not LDS except in name. Not acceptable. Also, not very long lived as an organization so they didn't do all that much damage. = Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] = -- http://www.operamail.com Get OperaMail Premium today - USD 29.99/year Powered by Outblaze // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Royal Families
Maj Tom Merrill wrote: ...according to them, some families within Israel have been singled out for greatness. That there are lineages that have been set aside to rule and reign over the rest of us. What is the opinion of the group? = Grampa Bill comments: Reading the first several answers to the Good Major's query, there seems to be near unanimity that the doctrine being taught is false. I'm not quite sure. True enough, the question is posed in such a manner as to elicit near visceral outrage, but lets look at some other aspects. First, let's get rid of that rule and reign over the rest of us line. Christ taught that to rule is to serve and set the example in washing His Apostles' feet. Seems this ruling and reigning business ain't all it's cracked up to be. Next, it is obvious there are certain families both within and outside the Chirch that rise to and remain in positions of prominence. The Smith family comes to mind immediately. Prophets, Patriarchs, Apostles, Seventies and numerous General Officers of the Church have arisen from this family over a number generations. It is not limited to the Smiths. Check the Pratts and the Youngs, the Tanners, et al. In fact, this phenomenon is so prevalent that if the doctine of Royal Blood is not true, the Church would seem to be a hot bed of nepotism. One of the great blessings one seeks is to raise up a righteous posterity. If blessings follow righteousness, one would expect to see prominence in certain families. I have read that Colonel George Reade, a prominent pre-Revolutionary War patriot, fathered a number of U.S. Presidents and a brace of General Authorities and Officers of the Church. He is also one of my ancestors and whatever prominence his descendants enjoy certainly skipped my branch and generation. I think the main thing is that certain folks, by their pre-existant and/or mortal righteousness merit having some of the great and noble spirits to be born into their posterity. I don't know that I have expressed this well, but I 'spect ther is something to this doctrine regardless of how distastefully it might have been expressed. Love y'all Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Royal Families
This doctrine of the election of grace is as follows: As part of the new song the saints will sing when they 'see eye to eye' and the millennial era has been ushered in will be these words, 'The Lord hath redeemed his people, Israel, According to the election of grace, Which was brought to pass by the faith And covenant of their fathers.' (D. C. 84:98-102; Rom. 11:1-5.) This election of grace is a very fundamental, logical, and important part of God's dealings with men through the ages. To bring to pass the salvation of the greatest possible number of his spirit children the Lord, in general, sends the most righteous and worthy saints to earth through the lineage of Abraham and Jacob. This course is a manifestation of his grace or in other words his love, mercy, and condescension toward his children. This election to a chosen lineage is based on pre-existent worthiness and is thus made 'according to the foreknowledge of God.' (1 Pet. 1:2.) Those so grouped together during their mortal probation have more abundant opportunities to make and keep the covenants of salvation, a right which they earned by pre-existent devotion to the cause of righteousness. As part of this election, Abraham and others of the noble and great spirits were chosen before they were born for the particular missions assigned them in this life. (Abra. 3:22-24; Rom. 9.) As with every basic doctrine of the gospel, the Lord's system of election based on pre-existent faithfulness has been changed and perverted by an apostate Christendom. So absurd have been the false conclusions reached in this field that millions of sincere though deceived persons have devoutly believed that in accordance with the divine will men were pre-destined to receive salvation or damnation which no act on their part could change. (Teachings, p. 189.) Actually, if the full blessings of salvation are to follow, the doctrine of election must operate twice. First, righteous spirits are elected or chosen to come to mortality as heirs of special blessings. Then, they must be called and elected again in this life, an occurrence which takes place when they join the true Church. (D. C. 53:1.) Finally, in order to reap eternal salvation, they must press forward in obedient devotion to the truth until they make their 'calling and election sure' (2 Pet. 1), that is, are 'sealed up unto eternal life.' (D. C. 131:5.) (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., pp. 216-217.) (_Doctrinal New Testament Commentary_, Bruce R. McConkie.) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Royal Families
At 05:38 AM 6/20/03 -0700, Grampa Bill in Savannah wrote: Maj Tom Merrill wrote: ...according to them, some families within Israel have been singled out for greatness. That there are lineages that have been set aside to rule and reign over the rest of us. What is the opinion of the group? = Grampa Bill comments: Reading the first several answers to the Good Major's query, there seems to be near unanimity that the doctrine being taught is false. I'm not quite sure. True enough, the question is posed in such a manner as to elicit near visceral outrage, but lets look at some other aspects. First, let's get rid of that rule and reign over the rest of us line. Christ taught that to rule is to serve and set the example in washing His Apostles' feet. Seems this ruling and reigning business ain't all it's cracked up to be. Next, it is obvious there are certain families both within and outside the Chirch that rise to and remain in positions of prominence. The Smith family comes to mind immediately. Prophets, Patriarchs, Apostles, Seventies and numerous General Officers of the Church have arisen from this family over a number generations. It is not limited to the Smiths. Check the Pratts and the Youngs, the Tanners, et al. In fact, this phenomenon is so prevalent that if the doctine of Royal Blood is not true, the Church would seem to be a hot bed of nepotism. One of the great blessings one seeks is to raise up a righteous posterity. If blessings follow righteousness, one would expect to see prominence in certain families. I have read that Colonel George Reade, a prominent pre-Revolutionary War patriot, fathered a number of U.S. Presidents and a brace of General Authorities and Officers of the Church. He is also one of my ancestors and whatever prominence his descendants enjoy certainly skipped my branch and generation. I think the main thing is that certain folks, by their pre-existant and/or mortal righteousness merit having some of the great and noble spirits to be born into their posterity. I don't know that I have expressed this well, but I 'spect ther is something to this doctrine regardless of how distastefully it might have been expressed. I'm sure you're correct in what you say above. Let's look at the question again. At 09:59 PM 6/19/03 -0400, Maj Tom Merrill wrote: Folks I guess I'll turn off the lurk mode and bring up something about which I have a passionate opinion. The subject is royal families. There is someone in my stake who comes from what some would call a prominent family. They teach in church, and especially within their family, this doctrine. Seems that, according to them, some families within Israel have been singled out for greatness. That there are lineages that have been set aside to rule and reign over the rest of us. And at a few of the words of the Savior on the matter: And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way? But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who [should be] the greatest. And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, [the same] shall be last of all, and servant of all. (Mark 9:33-35) But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last first. (Mark 10:31) And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire. And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you? They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory. But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared. And when the ten heard [it], they began to be much displeased with James and John. But Jesus called them [to him], and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Mark 10:35-45) I think the issue here is not whether or not some people are called to do great things in the Church, nor whether God may tell those people in advance something about the work they are called to do in order to
RE: [ZION] hand shakes
It seems to me that the tradition of hand shaking is diminishing somewhat in LSD social circles, the ones I'm in, that is. And for that, I'm quite glad. I don't want to shake hands with anyone, quite frankly. It's just a germy thing to do and it should be discontinued, in my noble opinion. Think about it; handshaking spreads germs, disease, and simply more pain to make our already miserable earth lives more miserable. So why shake hands with germy people? They put their fingers in their noses, cracks (various ones), and rub there oily skin. I simply can't stand it when I see people in church rubbing their faces, yes, and mouths--then they want to shake hands with me?? God forbid. Does anyone feel like me? I feel my complaints are noteworthy.It's a good idea to wash you hands after shaking. Wouldn't you say? Paul O The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] hand shakes
Maybe LSD causes a hand shaking/germ phobia. I know it can cause hallucinations and such. --Jeff. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6/20/2003 10:40:57 AM It seems to me that the tradition of hand shaking is diminishing somewhat in LSD social circles, the ones I'm in, that is. And for that, I'm quite glad. I don't want to shake hands with anyone, quite frankly. It's just a germy thing to do and it should be discontinued, in my noble opinion. Think about it; handshaking spreads germs, disease, and simply more pain to make our already miserable earth lives more miserable. So why shake hands with germy people? They put their fingers in their noses, cracks (various ones), and rub there oily skin. I simply can't stand it when I see people in church rubbing their faces, yes, and mouths--then they want to shake hands with me?? God forbid. Does anyone feel like me? I feel my complaints are noteworthy.It's a good idea to wash you hands after shaking. Wouldn't you say? Paul O // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] hand shakes
At 04:40 PM 6/20/03 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me that the tradition of hand shaking is diminishing somewhat in LSD social circles, the ones I'm in, that is. And for that, I'm quite glad. I don't want to shake hands with anyone, quite frankly. It's just a germy thing to do and it should be discontinued, in my noble opinion. Think about it; handshaking spreads germs, disease, and simply more pain to make our already miserable earth lives more miserable. So why shake hands with germy people? They put their fingers in their noses, cracks (various ones), and rub there oily skin. I simply can't stand it when I see people in church rubbing their faces, yes, and mouths--then they want to shake hands with me?? God forbid. Does anyone feel like me? I feel my complaints are noteworthy.It's a good idea to wash you hands after shaking. Wouldn't you say? Paul O Paul, maybe you should consider carrying around one of those big squirt bottle of that anti-bacterial hand gel and use it every time immediately after you shake someone's hand . . . and hope you never get called as Sacrament meeting door greeter . . . And at 11:15 AM 6/20/03 -0600, Jeffrey Ross wrote: Maybe LSD causes a hand shaking/germ phobia. I know it can cause hallucinations and such. --Jeff. Hey! I'm the smart-aleck around here! -- Ronn! :) Professional Smart-Aleck. Do Not Attempt. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] hand shakes
The First Presidency and the Twelve probably shake hundreds of hands each week and, even at their advanced ages, no ill effects. I think we're probably safe. Tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me that the tradition of hand shaking is diminishing somewhat in LSD social circles, the ones I'm in, that is. And for that, I'm quite glad. I don't want to shake hands with anyone, quite frankly. It's just a germy thing to do and it should be discontinued, in my noble opinion. Think about it; handshaking spreads germs, disease, and simply more pain to make our already miserable earth lives more miserable. So why shake hands with germy people? They put their fingers in their noses, cracks (various ones), and rub there oily skin. I simply can't stand it when I see people in church rubbing their faces, yes, and mouths--then they want to shake hands with me?? God forbid. Does anyone feel like me? I feel my complaints are noteworthy.It's a good idea to wash you hands after shaking. Wouldn't you say? Paul O The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Royal Families
Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 05:38 AM 6/20/03 -0700, Grampa Bill in Savannah wrote: Maj Tom Merrill wrote: Grampa Bill comments: Reading the first several answers to the Good Major's query, there seems to be near unanimity that the doctrine being taught is false. I'm not quite sure. True enough, the question is posed in such a manner as to elicit near visceral outrage, but lets look at some other aspects. There are many who would dispute Good Major. I just go by Tom g First, let's get rid of that rule and reign over the rest of us line. Christ taught that to rule is to serve and set the example in washing His Apostles' feet. Seems this ruling and reigning business ain't all it's cracked up to be. I'd have to agree. Leadership = Servitude. It is an eternal principle. Next, it is obvious there are certain families both within and outside the Chirch that rise to and remain in positions of prominence. The Smith family comes to mind immediately. Prophets, Patriarchs, Apostles, Seventies and numerous General Officers of the Church have arisen from this family over a number generations. It is not limited to the Smiths. Check the Pratts and the Youngs, the Tanners, et al. In fact, this phenomenon is so prevalent that if the doctine of Royal Blood is not true, the Church would seem to be a hot bed of nepotism. I would have to say that since the Church membership was rather concentrated in its early history, there was bound to be a concentration. I think that if we followed namy of the early, non-promenent families, you'd find a hefty amount of today's leaders. Of course, a major portion of Israel's current leadership is probably 1st generation. One of the great blessings one seeks is to raise up a righteous posterity. If blessings follow righteousness, one would expect to see prominence in certain families. As the generations progress, I would expect all of our families to have their own leaders arise. I have read that Colonel George Reade, a prominent pre-Revolutionary War patriot, fathered a number of U.S. Presidents and a brace of General Authorities and Officers of the Church. He is also one of my ancestors and whatever prominence his descendants enjoy certainly skipped my branch and generation. Skipped my generation, too lol. But I suspect that my son and daughters will be counted among the great ones wherever they go. As my son says, It doesn't matter how tall your grandfather was, you have to do your own growing. I think the main thing is that certain folks, by their pre-existant and/or mortal righteousness merit having some of the great and noble spirits to be born into their posterity. After the veil is lifted, we'll know for sure how things were set up before we came here. But until then, it's just speculation. I don't know that I have expressed this well, but I 'spect ther is something to this doctrine regardless of how distastefully it might have been expressed. Distasteful is one way of putting wink. I'm sure you're correct in what you say above. Let's look at the question again. At 09:59 PM 6/19/03 -0400, Maj Tom Merrill wrote: Folks I guess I'll turn off the lurk mode and bring up something about which I have a passionate opinion. The subject is royal families. There is someone in my stake who comes from what some would call a prominent family. They teach in church, and especially within their family, this doctrine. Seems that, according to them, some families within Israel have been singled out for greatness. That there are lineages that have been set aside to rule and reign over the rest of us. And at a few of the words of the Savior on the matter: And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way? But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who [should be] the greatest. And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, [the same] shall be last of all, and servant of all. (Mark 9:33-35) But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last first. (Mark 10:31) And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire. And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you? They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory. But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared. And when the ten heard [it], they
RE: [ZION] hand shakes
Especially if you don't know if they have a cold or not. Stacy. At 12:29 PM 06/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: At 04:40 PM 6/20/03 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me that the tradition of hand shaking is diminishing somewhat in LSD social circles, the ones I'm in, that is. And for that, I'm quite glad. I don't want to shake hands with anyone, quite frankly. It's just a germy thing to do and it should be discontinued, in my noble opinion. Think about it; handshaking spreads germs, disease, and simply more pain to make our already miserable earth lives more miserable. So why shake hands with germy people? They put their fingers in their noses, cracks (various ones), and rub there oily skin. I simply can't stand it when I see people in church rubbing their faces, yes, and mouths--then they want to shake hands with me?? God forbid. Does anyone feel like me? I feel my complaints are noteworthy.It's a good idea to wash you hands after shaking. Wouldn't you say? Paul O Paul, maybe you should consider carrying around one of those big squirt bottle of that anti-bacterial hand gel and use it every time immediately after you shake someone's hand . . . and hope you never get called as Sacrament meeting door greeter . . . And at 11:15 AM 6/20/03 -0600, Jeffrey Ross wrote: Maybe LSD causes a hand shaking/germ phobia. I know it can cause hallucinations and such. --Jeff. Hey! I'm the smart-aleck around here! -- Ronn! :) Professional Smart-Aleck. Do Not Attempt. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] hand shakes
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:51:03 -0400 Maj Tom Merrill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The First Presidency and the Twelve probably shake hundreds of hands each week and, even at their advanced ages, no ill effects. I think we're probably safe. Tom Well, I'm not a prophet and I ain't ever gonna be one if I get my way. I suppose that they are protected by the Lord inasmuch as they can't spend too much time in bed sick or the work would never get done. With my luck (shaking dirty hands) I would spend plenty of time in bed sick and constantly complaining about this lousy world we have to live in--I mean the world I volunteered to come to. Good grief, was I ever a sucker. :-o Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] hand shakes
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:29:45 -0500 Ronn! Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paul, maybe you should consider carrying around one of those big squirt bottle of that anti-bacterial hand gel and use it every time immediately after you shake someone's hand . . . and hope you never get called as Sacrament meeting door greeter . . . That's really a good idea, seriously, a good idea. I'll talk to my wife about it. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] hand shakes
My hand shakes a lot too. Whadda ya think we oughta do about it? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
