from:"Elmer L. Fairbank"

At 15:54 12/9/2002 -0400, M Scott wrote:

On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 12:13:00 -0500, "Elmer L. Fairbank"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> At 11:11 12/9/2002 -0400, M Scott wrote:
> >On Sun, 08 Dec 2002 19:41:17 -0700, "Marc A. Schindler"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > > I think it's just been quiet. Everyone's still digesting turkey and
> > > cranberry sauce.
> >
> >It's that cranberry sauce. Nasty stuff! It will poison you!
> >
> >Jo is the only one at our house who eats it, and she got pretty sick the
> >next day so that proves that cranberry sauce is evil! No doubt half the
> >members of the list who ate the evil stuff are barely hanging on to life
> >by a thread and thus can't post.
>
>
> Till ate some and he's still ticking just fine.

I thought I heard a ticking sound. Till, my friend, would you please turn
that ticking down, it is keeping me awake at night. Keep in mind,
however, that I just want you to tick more quietly, not stop ticking. I
would hate to "tick off" the Tillster!




Oh, no, not the typo-monster again!Till meant he was still tickling 





 

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Re: [ZION] Are any of you having problems?

At 11:23 12/9/2002 -0400, M Scott wrote:

On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 07:23:27 -0500, "Elmer L. Fairbank"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> At 21:44 12/8/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:
> >  feeds Jonah Greenberg to
> >the caribou,
>
>
> Does PETA know about this?  Are they just sitting still over it?

Till,

Aren't stills illegal? Do the ATF people know about this? (After all, it
involves alchohol and firearms, and someone may smoke so there is tobacco
too!)

Hey, maybe the still is just to make alchohol for fuel for the black
helicopters!

It's the by-product of the yeast in the manufacture of Pita bread!

Till the notsohelpful

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Re: [ZION] Are any of you having problems?

At 11:11 12/9/2002 -0400, M Scott wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2002 19:41:17 -0700, "Marc A. Schindler"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> I think it's just been quiet. Everyone's still digesting turkey and
> cranberry sauce.

It's that cranberry sauce. Nasty stuff! It will poison you!

Jo is the only one at our house who eats it, and she got pretty sick the
next day so that proves that cranberry sauce is evil! No doubt half the
members of the list who ate the evil stuff are barely hanging on to life
by a thread and thus can't post.

Till ate some and he's still ticking just fine.

Till the animal

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Re: [ZION] Are any of you having problems?

At 21:44 12/8/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:

 feeds Jonah Greenberg to
the caribou,



Does PETA know about this?  Are they just sitting still over it?

Till the helpful

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Re: [ZION] Teaching Correct Principle

2002-12-06 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 16:47 12/5/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:

After much pondering, Elmer L. Fairbank favored us with:

I know what you are saying and agree in principle, but please read this
carefully and see if the phrase "puffed up with their own " in the last two sentences doesn't jump out at you? Signaturus
rhetoric! Do you really feel that way?

I can see where you are coming from, Elmer. And you are probably right
that I need to be more humble. But after a while a guy gets tired of
being misunderstood even though he is speaking the truth. Speaking the
truth should never prompt an argument and bad feelings. When I mean to
point a finger, and make things personal, then I'll let everyone
know. Until then I recommend that those who might be offended read a
little more carefully and see if I have singled them out in mere
paraphrasing the scriptures and the writings of the prophets. Usually
they will find that I have not.

As I said, John, I am in agreement with you, and it is tiresome. But your
rhetoric set off little alarms and I thought you might like to know. I
happen to know the truth, it sets me apart from many around me, but the
sorrow I feel for them is not really in the line of that rhetoric. As
Alma said, I wish I were an angel and had the voice of a trump, but I'm
not, I'm just a poor wayfarer, who happens to have latched onto some
wonderful knowledge. I constantly strive to live up to that knowledge and
usually fall far short. So I keep bumbling from day to day, changing what
I can change, and influencing whom I can for good. It's such marvelous
knowledge we've got hold of, it's hard to understand how anyone could
reject it, but the test of faith comes first. They can not see the
marvelous beauty of it until they first soften their hearts to listen, so
the light needs to emanate from we disciples for them to see it at all,
then hopefully they will look further.

Till the bumbler

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Re: [ZION] Teaching Correct Principle

2002-12-05 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 09:13 12/5/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:


Yet almost every true idea, principle, philosophy or behavior indicts 
someone.  They take it personal.  They falsely assume that you are 
targeting them or a loved one when all you are trying to do is teach the 
correct principle.  I wish others could do as well as I do in making the 
distinction between teaching correct principle and finger pointing.  I 
guess it just takes more intelligence than most people possess.


John,

I know what you are saying and agree in principle, but please read this 
carefully and see if the phrase "puffed up with their own " in the last two sentences doesn't jump out at you?  Signaturus 
rhetoric!  Do you really feel that way?

Till the hiding under the carpet now

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Re: [ZION] True Christians

2002-12-05 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 09:49 12/5/2002 -0900, BLT wondered :


For years we referred to those outside the Church as "gentiles."  Then 
that word wasn't good enough, so we stated saying "nonmember."  Even that 
term is considered too politically incorrect.  So what do we call them today?



Lost


Till the ever helpful

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Re: [ZION] True Christians

2002-12-05 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 08:37 12/5/2002 -0900, BLT scares us all:


--- Mark Gregson ---
Joseph Smith had the vision in 1836 in the Kirtland temple.  In the
vision he saw his father, mother and Alvin in the celestial kingdom.
However, his father and mother were still alive when Joseph Smith had the
vision.  Therefore, the vision was of the future, after Alvin's temple
work would have been completed.  No one enters the Celestial Kingdom
without baptism if they die after reaching the age of accountability.


In my view, Mark is right.  And Gary is still determined to avoid that 
fact that hell, whatever that means, is going to be a crowded place since 
"few" will find the narrow way that leads to life.


Oh, man, I HATE crowds.  Guess I'd better get busy.


Till the scurrying

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Re: [ZION] Saving My Head

2002-12-02 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 20:47 12/2/2002 -0900, you wrote:



John,

I think your clock is 12 hours ahead of you.  Sure messes up my sorting!

Till the fussbudget

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Re: [ZION] Paul's dad

2002-12-02 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 22:12 11/28/2002 -0500, St Jon wrote:

Did I read this correctly?  Did you say that denying yourself the blessings
of the temple IS the way to face problems?




No, you're supposed to read what I MEANT, not what I wrote.


Till the getting confuseder

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Re: [ZION] Just how can we serve?

At 11:29 11/27/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>>> Till favored us with:
>Should I have done more?  Is there more we can do for
>complete strangers.

Till,

I think you did a terrific job. Unfortunately, in our society, genuine
offers of help can be and often are misconstrued.

I say pray to the Father and follow the promptings of the Spirit, and
you'll do accomplish what is expected.

Yeah, I know I probably did all I could, but when I left her she was still 
sobbing and still didn't know what she was going to do.  If I were her Dad, 
I would have said to wait 30 more minutes and call back.  By then I would 
have had my stuff in the car for a trip to Ithaca and been on the road 
immediately.  My only hope is that if she doesn't get home, she will regard 
my offer as genuine, and call.

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[ZION] Just how can we serve?

Just got back from lunch and there was this half-frozen coed standing in a 
snow squall with all her luggage at a bus stop, sobbing her eyes out.  I 
asked her if she was OK (duh, you have to have some kind of opener), and 
through a series of very pointed questions (she was too upset to offer 
info) found that she probably had missed her ride to Baltimore ( a ride, 
not a bus, just a convenient location, plus she didn't have any way to get 
hold of the people giving her the ride to find out if they were late or had 
already left).  I gave her my name and number and told her if she got stuck 
here to call and she could join us for dinner tomorrow rather than sit 
alone and miserable*.  I then got her to call her parents and tell them her 
plight.  Then my bus came and I was gone.  Should I have done more?  Is 
there more we can do for complete strangers.  If it were my daughter I 
would hope someone would have compassion on her.**  Did I overstep my 
bounds as a stranger in "pushing" the conversation?   Should I have offered 
her a ride to Baltimore, a 10-12 hour round trip?  The poor thing made my 
heart melt watching her anguish.  Her tears were freezing to her cheeks, 
for heavens sakes.


Till the getting too complicated for his feeble little brain

* I also made sure she had a place to go home to tonight, that is, wasn't 
locked/shut out from her usual quarters and sleeping in the street)

**  My daughter called me from the Atlanta airport this summer in a similar 
state.  She was tired, sick and hungry, coming back from Brazil, had lost 
her passport and boarding pass and had no one to pick her up in Salt Lake 
if/when she did get there.  I gave her a strategy, which she followed and 
it all worked out.  I was almost ready to call my good friend Scott McGee, 
though.  Had I heard from her again while still in Atlanta (with bad news, 
that is) I would have.

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[ZION] The Royal flush beats all others

At 12:51 11/27/2002 -0400, you wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:57:54 -0700, "Marc A. Schindler"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> I have to say, I'm not sure there are 4 Imp gals / 5 US gals in there --
> it looks
> more like 3 Imp gals to me, but I'm just estimating.

Hmm, you could always shut of the water, flush to empty the tank and then
pour in water to see how much it holds.

Oh, Till has a great idea!  Open the pipe at the bottom, drain it 
all out on the floor, then mop it up and see how much water is in the mop 
bucket.  Good idea, no?

Till the ever helpful

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Re: [ZION] Can Anyone Become A Fully Qualified Member In Good Standing Afte

At 20:18 11/26/2002 -0800, St Stace wrote:

Suppose I suspect this individual failed to disclose this information 
before baptism?  If he is now living a good life, does any of this 
information need to come out?

It's a standard question in the temple recommend interview, if there are 
any past misdeeds that have not been properly resolved through the 
priesthood authority.   It will have to be dealt with eventually.  To 
answer your original question, if you have to ask the question to begin 
with, then probably you, personally, should not.

Till

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Re: [ZION] Canada: Bush is an idiot

At 04:10 11/27/2002 +, Gib Mij wrote:


Another article worrying about Canadian political insults.

"http://canada.com/national/story.asp?id=%7BAFC42C56-BB5F-457B-AEAF-5D58F21AB39C%7D";


Those Canadian political officials can't seem to keep their lips
buttoned.




Sounds to me more like they need the services of a good bootmaker.  One who 
can discern subtleties of fit that the rest of us might miss.

Till

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Re: [ZION] Paul's dad

At 19:53 11/26/2002 -0800, St Stace wrote:

I suggest you make arrangements to attend the temple as soon as 
possible.  Denying yourself the blessings of the temple is not the way to 
face these dire events.



Yes, in fact, it IS the way to face them.

Till

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Re: [ZION] A question: meaning of "ally"

At 18:49 11/26/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:

But first I'd like to hear
from USAmericans. Why the big deal?



Till has yet to figure it out.   Spoke the truth as she saw it.  Can't 
fault a person for that.   I overhear a lot of sillier things in the course 
of every day living.  So what?


Till the confusticated

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Re: [ZION] No Redelfs Citings

At 09:16 11/23/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:

  I must say, John shows a far greater sense of humour in
person, and exudes an exuberant warmth, openess and downright love,  in 
person.
It's funny how email just doesn't convey these kinds of nuances. (Not that he
doesn't necessarily come across that way on the web, I'm just saying that 
I for
one, at least, didn't have the true measure of the man until I met him in 
person,
and am very glad to have had the opportunity).


Hear, hear, I could have told you that, if you had just asked!   And try as 
he may, poor old BLT doesn't do Esperanza justice


Till

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Re: [ZION] Science dissonance

At 22:30 11/22/2002 -0500, St Jon wrote:

No. It is known as "survival of the FIT" - a very big difference.  It is not
just the fittest that survive.  It is those who meet or exceed the minimum
requirements.  The fittest against one threat may not be able to survive the
next threat, whereas the barely able to survive the first threat may be the
best at surviving the next.



I thought it was survival of the FATTEST!


Till the crushed cause he spent so much time trying to survive

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Re: [ZION] No Redelfs citing?

At 17:17 11/22/2002 -0600, Grrryrryyy wrote:

Aaaa. So it starts (he said as he wiped his face off with a piece of
whole wheat bread).  Since it is my list (and John isn't around to
regulate the living room), I not only get to start it, but I'll try and
finish it, also.

Gary pushes a button, and suddenly a cream pie drops from the ceiling
onto Till's head.  I hope you like lemon




Hah, you just inadvertently sat in a platter full of week old melted death 
by chocolate ice cream that I slid onto your chair behind you.  Oh, don't 
those white pants look great!  Careful not to splash Pauly when you shake 
off.  Stacy, let me freshen up your carrot juice, I know how you crave your 
veggies ..  oops, sorry about that, didn't mean to spill it in your 
lap, I must have slipped on some merengue ..


Till, smiling contentedly whilst licking lemon cream from his 
whiskers  (next time don't forget the whipped cream!  some people just 
don't have a sense of class)

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Re: [ZION] Science Dissonance

At 16:05 11/22/2002 -0600, Gaaayyy wrote:

 We
can rewire our brains (literally) to take new approaches from the old
habits, such as changing our eating and exercise habits, as well as our
attitudes in life. These can all make dramatic differences.



My SIL teaches Neuro-Linguistic-Programming techniques.  It is quite 
effective.  The basic concept is to just remodel the habitual pathways in 
the neural system.  When we repeat an action (be it physical or mental), we 
create pathways that then have a lower resistance, causing that same 
pattern to be repeated.  The object of the NLP is to recreate those 
pathways the way we want them. ** I don't buy into it as heavily as she 
obviously does, but I have seen some pretty remarkable changes in some 
people's lives after spending time working with the technique.  She views 
it almost as a pseudo-religion, which, of course, is a point of 
(unexpressed, it's best to stay on good terms with family members) 
disagreement.  But as a therapeutic technique it is quite effective.

Till the cross-wired  

**  Silly example time.  I'm terribly acrophobic and have a difficult time 
crossing large-span high suspension bridges.  I break out in a cold 
sweat.  I've been re-programmed  in a somewhat silly (works for me 8>)) 
way.  When I start on to one of those bridges, the Ride of the Valkyries 
comes bursting out of nowhere, full voice, and I cross it in fine style.  I 
always have to laugh afterwards about how silly it seems, but it works.

   Telemarketers used to call at suppertime for so many years (before I 
got on to the NY state no-call list) that I've also been programmed to 
salivate when the phone rings

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Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?

At 12:18 11/22/2002 -0700, Sir Goef wrote:



PS - Right now I am enjoying a vegetable lasagna for lunch (left over
from last night) - delicious!

--
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Till is afraid to think what the non-text portions of a vegetable lasagne 
might look like ...  



Till the not-so-hungry any more and thankful that they were censored out

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Re: [ZION] No Redelfs Citing?

At 12:12 11/22/2002 -0600, Gary wrote:

Are you saying I'm not a list moderator? Or just that I'm temporarily out
of moderation? Why, them's fighting words where I come from. That's it!
Salamis at 10 paces!



Hah, right between the eyes with an overripe cherry tomato!


Till (Gary started it)

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Re: [ZION] No Redelfs citings?

At 12:06 11/22/2002 -0600, Gyyy wrote:

Oh! I hope John gets Harpo's autograph while there! He was always my
favorite...

I hear that Chico Marcs is going to try and "curry" John's flavor



Make sure to check the sanity clause.


Till, who shot an elephant in his pajamas last night.

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RE: [ZION] No Redelfs Citings?

At 20:45 11/21/2002 +, M Larry wrote:

No Redelfs Citings?

That's a good thing, actually.

First, we wouldn't expect our fine upstanding BLT to be cited
by anyone as he cruises northward on his whirlwind international
tour.  A citation would certainly be an indication of a lack of
moderation in all things, and not just the temporary lack of a
Moderator in this Zion List thing.

Second, elves shouldn't be red.  Right, Till?



I think I red that somewhere in my instruction manuel.   So does the lack 
of a citing mean that he is in situ?


Till  who has the situation bien a mano




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Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-21 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 12:25 11/21/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:


Well said. I call these well-meaning critics "Job's Comforters."  My least
favourite (although, again, they're just trying to help) are those who 
insist that
I try the latest non-technological fad, be it Tahitian berries or special
massages, and when I tell them I've tried traditional medicine, their 
response is
100% predictable: "but this one's new and it WORKS!" I've never learned how to
respond tactfully.


May I suggest a weekend at Till's lowly shack.  It works for him!



Till the 8>))

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Re: [ZION] No Redelfs Citings?

2002-11-21 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 19:17 11/21/2002 +, Uncle Presidente Tom wrote:

Wonder why you aren't seeing any posts from our BLT?  It's because he's
on his international tour. Did you forget or what?  Last night John and
his daughter Becky stayed at our house and then this morning I went to a
temple session with them before pointing them north and wishing them
well for the rest of their trip back to Alaska.  They should be in
Edmonton around the supper hour where they will hook up with one or both
of the Marx brothers, I think, before veering to the west.



Yes, what a treat, isn't it.  I've had the pleasure of meeting John twice 
and Esperanza and Jack once.   Now if I could just bag some of that 
Albertan Back-Bacon for my list .


Till

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RE: [ZION] In the World

2002-11-18 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 18:45 11/18/2002 +, Gib Mij wrote:



Yes, my friend, this is the exact passage that has prompted this 
question.  I read this a couple months ago and have been pondering it in my 
heart.  Now, I'm trying to track down where it started (was it, in fact, 
Diogones, and what was the work and that which surrounded it and/or the 
purpose of the statement), how it got into LDS culture, and if it should, 
as M Nibley states, not be there.

Till





Elmer L. Fairbank wrote:
---
"In the world but not of it" or something of it's ilk.   What's the
source of the saying?
---

According to Nibley--

That is, when I find myself called upon to stand up and be counted, to
declare myself on one side or the other, which do I prefergin or rum,
cigarettes or cigars, tea or coffee, heroin or LSD, the Red Rose or the
White, Shiz or Coriantumr, wicked Nephites or wicked Lamanites, Whigs or
Tories, Catholic or Protestant, Republican or Democrat, black power or
white power, land pirates or sea pirates, commissars or corporations,
capitalism or communism? The devilish neatness and simplicity of the
thing is the easy illusion that I am choosing between good and evil,
when in reality two or more evils by their rivalry distract my attention
from the real issue. The oldest trick in the book for those who wish to
perpetrate a great crime unnoticed is to set up a diversion, such as a
fight in the street or a cry of fire in the hall, that sends everyone
rushing to the spot while the criminal as an inconspicuous and highly
respectable citizen quietly walks off with the loot.

It can be shown that in each of the choices just named, one of the pair
may well be preferable to the other, but that is not the question. There
is no point in arguing which other system comes closest to the law of
consecration, since I excluded all other systems when I opted for the
real thing. The relative merits of various economies is a problem for
the gentiles to worry about, a devil's dilemma that does not concern me
in the least. For it so happens that I have presently covenanted and
promised to observe most strictly certain instructions set forth with
great clarity and simplicity in the Doctrine and Covenants. These are
designated as the law of consecration, which are absolutely essential
for the building up of the kingdom on earth and the ultimate
establishment of Zion. "Behold, this is the preparation wherewith I
prepare you, and the foundation and the ensample which I give unto you,
whereby you may accomplish the commandments which are given you; that
through my providence, notwithstanding the tribulation which shall
descend upon you, that the church may stand independent above all other
creatures beneath the celestial world" (D&C 78:13-14). It is all there,
this law of consecration, by which alone the Saints can implement God's
plans for Zion in spite of the persecution it will bring on them; this
is the foundation on which they must build (see D&C 48:6). The
alternative is to be dependent on baser things, for "Zion cannot be
built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial
kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself" (D&C 105:5).

But should I ask for tribulation? I live in the real world, don't I?
Yes, and I have been commanded to "come out of her,. . . that ye be not
partakers of her sins" (Revelation 18:4). It is not given "unto you that
ye shall live after the manner of the world" (D&C 95:13). Well, then,
you must be "in the world but not of the world." That happens to be a
convenient para-scripture (we have quite a few of them today), invented
by a third-century Sophist (Diognetos), to the great satisfaction of the
church members, who were rapidly becoming very worldly. The passage as
it appears in the scriptures says quite the opposite: "For [whatsoever]
that is in the world. . . is not of the Father, but is of the world" (1
John 2:16). The Lord has repeatedly commanded and forced his people to
flee out of the world into the wilderness, quite literally; there is
only one way to avoid becoming involved in the neighborhood brawls, and
that is to move out of the neighborhood. There is nothing in the
Constitution that forbids me doing certain things I have covenanted and
promised to do; if the neighbors don't like it, they have no legal
grounds against me, but there are ways of getting me to move; "the
tribulation. . . shall descend upon you," said the Lord, but do things
my way and "my providence" will see you through (D&C 78:14). This
inescapable conflict is part of our human heritage, as we learn from
dramatic passages of scripture.


(Hugh Nibley, Approaching Zion, edited by Don E. Norton [Salt Lake City
and Provo: Deseret Book Co., Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon
Studies, 1989], 163 - 164.)

///

Re: [ZION] In the World

2002-11-18 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 11:32 11/18/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:

That's a darned good question. The Sufis use this saying (that's a 
mystical branch
of Sunni Islam especially common in Egypt and Turkey), and it's also well 
known in
Catholic and Mennonite traditions.

My guess is that it came into creedal Christianity as an aphorism via 
Augustine,
but that's a guess. In any case, John 17:14-16 would appear to be the 
original NT
source as far as Christianity is concerned. That's my contribution, anyway.

It doesn't really say the same thing, though.  It's obvious (to me, 
anyway), that when we're here in mortality, that we are "in the world" 
physically.   I'm not sure that is what this little ditty is necessarily 
implying.  I'm tryng to find out if thing has substance, or if it's one of 
those apocryphal folk tales.  Nibley claims that  we are commanded to "go 
out from the world".   I'm trying to get through the word games and figure 
out just what is being commanded and what is being suggested by 
conventional "wisdom", i.e., the philosophies of men, mingled with 
scripture.  Identifying the source for this saying (with it's context) will 
help me immeasurably to sort out the scripture from the philosophy.

Till

"Elmer L. Fairbank" wrote:

> OK, Zionisti, research time.
>
> "In the world but not of it" or something of it's ilk.   What's the source
> of the saying?
>
> Till the questioning
>
> 
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Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
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[ZION] In the World

2002-11-18 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

OK, Zionisti, research time.


"In the world but not of it" or something of it's ilk.   What's the source 
of the saying?



Till the questioning

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RE: [ZION] 7 Nukes in US Cities

2002-11-15 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 07:24 11/15/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:

After much pondering, Larry Jackson favored us with:

"Alottanukes Soon" is not the sort of title I would expect to
see in a professional magazine or journal.  It is the sort of
title I would expect my friends to make up when joking around
on a weekend evening.  This, in and of itself, of course does
not make the article untrue.  It is just a flag.


I completely missed the "Alottnukes Soon" in the byline.  I am embarrassed 
that I passed on a hoax.  I don't do that very often.  Normally, I 
consider World Net Daily to be a pretty reliable source of information, 
keeping in mind that I don't think that any sources of information are 
reliable.  How do you like that for a contradiction?

Anyway, sorry I posted something fraudulent to the list.  How 
embarrasing.  I hope that World Net Daily is embarrassed too.


Actually, John, I was grateful for the opportunity to read it.  There was 
much in there that rings true.   "His" criticisms of the western economy 
are valid, none-the-less.  There are things in there that should give us 
all pause to reflect on our own values and where we stand.  For that, it 
was a useful tool.   For we all know the prophesies that must come to pass, 
and these are certainly plausible scenarios (scenarii?)   Responding on a 
personal level as though it were a real danger is not a bad thing to 
do.   Restocking the larder, checking those water supplies one more time, 
knowing how to make this or that.. they're all good exercises to occupy 
our time.


ELF

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Re: [ZION] 7 Nukes in US Cities

2002-11-15 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 16:55 11/14/2002 -0900, BLT referenced an article:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/DK15Aa01.html

Seven Nukes in US Cities al-Qaedo Warns

THE ROVING EYE
Apocalypse Now, or Alottanukes Soon By
Pepe Escobar



Got the following when I went to check the link:


Article withdrawn. This article was based on an interview that appears to 
have been a hoax. For more information, please click on the link


Till the ever watchful who still needs to attend to a few more preparedness 
tasks anyway


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Re: [ZION] Coffee beans

2002-11-14 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 06:30 11/14/2002 -0800, you wrote:

At 11:32 PM 11/13/2002 -0700, Marc wrote:

BTW, why didn't the doc prescribe digitalis or digoxin? Digitalis has 
been around
since antiquity (it comes from the foxglove plant), and digoxin has been 
in use
since at least WWII, iirc. It's usually the drug of choice for heart 
stimulus.

Because foxglove is a common weed, readily available in my garden for free 
to anyone who wants it, and therefore does not make a huge profit for the 
doc's partners - the pharmaceutical industry.


It's pretty potent sitting out there.  Be EXTREMELY careful.


Till who doesn't have anything growing in his garden right now, but the 
foxgloves do like to come up in the nicer weather

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Re: [ZION] Family Search

2002-11-14 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 07:07 11/14/2002 -0500, St Jon wrote:

On my way home from teaching Seminary this morning, I was listening to the
radio.  They have a segment from someone who calls herself Kim Commando -
she talks about computer topics.  She was speaking to those who are doing
family history, and talked about the fact "The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints, also known as the Mormons, have just put 55,000,000 new
names on their internet site."  The spot was very complimentary, and they
gave the website name, highlighting that it is a ".org" and not a .com.




Yes, they just put the 1880 US census, the 1881 Canadian census, and the 
1881 British census on-line.  It's been a real help.

Till the ancestor

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Re: [ZION] Mannequins

2002-11-14 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 21:46 11/13/2002 -0600, Grryyy wrote:

Would someone please tell Till's wife to keep him away from the store
front windows? He's scaring the passersby...




Till thinks the mannikins scares the passersby.  At least they do him.

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Re: [ZION] Answer to life

At 13:20 11/13/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:

See, I can play straight man, too.



Yes, I noticed, and I greatly appreciated that.  See how kewl it can be 
down here in the mud beneath all the important people.

Till

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RE: [ZION] Answer to life

At 19:10 11/13/2002 +, St Stephen wrote:


Just occurred to me: 9 x 6 = 42 in base 13, and 9 x 6 = 46 in base 12.
Obviously, Gary and Jon are simply off-base.



Yes, but WHO'S on first?


Till the everwatchful

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Re: [ZION] Modest attire fashion show

At 09:46 11/13/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:

The version of the article I read (in the Toronto paper) said that the Church
members who organized this had to turn away Catholics, Jews, Moslems and
conservative Protestants -- there just wasn't enough room -- but it made them
realize there's a huge pent-up demand if it's marketed properly (that 
answers the
stores' objection that they'd been carrying this stuff all along. Sure. 
But you
never see them on the mannikins in the front window, do you?)



Around here, I'm not sure I see anything on the mannikins in the front window

Just an observation from the Tillster

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Re: [ZION] Magnetic Personality

At 23:38 11/12/2002 -0800, St Stacy wrote:

It's a tragedy these things happen.  Everyone who goes into an MRI room 
should be trained and no unauthorized person should be allowed in.



Oh, man, now I have to be TRAINED to be sick!!   8>))

Till the tired

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Re: [ZION] Answer to life

At 22:23 11/12/2002 -0700,  M Marc wrote:

What did you do to pretend to be an amoeba? Split in two?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Stephen Beecroft:
>
> > Naturally. It involved cutting various simple shapes out of
> > construction paper, then deciding which shapes looked
> > most like Canada.
>
> ___
>
> Our teachers had us take strips of paper, gave them a half
> twist, fasten the ends together, and then color both sides,
> pretending all the while to be amoebas, thus bringing both
> science and math to new lows.



No, it was just the amoebius strip!


Till the ever watchful

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Re: [ZION] a whirlwind trip south

At 18:44 11/12/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:



Seriously -- did you guys hear about a case back east somewhere, New York 
state,
iirc, where a tech had inadvertently left an oxygen cylinder in the room, 
and when
the MRI was turned on, it got sucked right into the core, killing the poor 
patient
(a young boy) instantly.


Yes, I recall hearing something.  It was pretty local.


Till the uncharged

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Re: [ZION] "Social" Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)

At 12:30 11/12/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:

After much pondering, Elmer L. Fairbank favored us with:

Till would maintain that this is really a typo and that sparringly is 
what is really meant.  It's obvious from the view here that we are to 
wrestle with our dinners before we eat them.

Well, if you'd ever been to a rodeo, you know that wrestling with your 
meat is called bull dogging.  Of course then the steer has to be butchered 
before you eat it.  --JWR



Chicken dogging, anyone


Till the m tastes like dust

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Re: [ZION] One party rule?

At 12:46 11/12/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:

This is a concept we're well acquainted with in Canada, where we separate 
the Head
of State from Head of Government. The Head of State (the husband) is purely
ceremonial and only really needed in times of crisis ;-)



You mean Red was giving me bad advice, about the handsome/handy relationship.


Till the disillusioned

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Re: [ZION] "Social" Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)

At 11:37 11/12/2002 -0800, St Stacy wrote:

Then I'm in trouble because I use lots of convenience foods because I have 
trouble cooking.  I guess I'll have to tell the bishop that I'm working on 
substituting some soy products for meat dishes but I'll need to know where 
soy TV dinners, etc. exist.



Rice and beans..  beans and rice ...  nice onion. some olive 
oil   creole seasoning ...   a pepper .



Till the getting hungrier

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Re: [ZION] "Social" Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)

At 13:23 11/12/2002 -0600, St Paul not Minnesota wrote:


I don't eat meat with every meal and certainly not every day. What does
sparingly mean?



Till would maintain that this is really a typo and that sparringly is what 
is really meant.  It's obvious from the view here that we are to wrestle 
with our dinners before we eat them.


Till the clarifyer

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Re: [ZION] A Whirlwind Trip South

At 12:17 11/12/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:

 another
aspect of this is that I lose my sense of where I am in space if I don't 
have enough visual or tactile clues, and don't know up from down. Often I 
don't realize I've even fallen until I feel the pain from the blow).


Ah, my friend, come grovel in the mud with Till.  Can't fall far from THAT 
perch!

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Re: [ZION] One party rule?

At 11:00 11/12/2002 -0800, you wrote:

In my opinion the more parties the better.



YES!!!  the more the merrier.  Now who's bringing the cookies?   the 
green jello



Till the party animal

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Re: [ZION] Hypocrisy

At 09:42 11/12/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:

After much pondering, Elmer L. Fairbank favored us with:

Till the not so great himself


Hey, you are coming up in the world.  The last time we had a humble pie 
eating contest, you won it, if I remember correctly.  You were really 
groveling in the dust, I believe.  --JWR


Alas, 'tis only too true.  Even the lowly Till must eventually progress as 
he slogs down life's path.


the Mud-rat

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Re: [ZION] One party rule?

At 11:42 11/12/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:


And politicians are like underwear: they need to be
changed periodically.




And dunked in suds and hung out to dry.   (or would taken to the cleaners 
be better?    no, that's what they do to us)


Till the ever watchful

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Re: [ZION] One party rule?

At 09:42 11/12/2002 -0800, Stacy wrote:

I think what everyone means by "socialists" are the people informally who 
believe that the government should pay for health care for everyone 
regardless of income or social status, not necessarily those that belong 
to the Communist party or groups thereof.  I think this needs to be 
clarified somewhat.


Here in Ithaca it means that the government will rock everybody's cradle to 
put them to sleep.  That is as long as you don't say anything against their 
little pet agendae, such as reproductive rights or s**ual preference 
rights.  Actually, not only that, you need to chant their mantra with them 
as they sing the lullaby.

Till the disgusted  who will not carry this discussion any further down 
this path

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Re: [ZION] Hypocrisy

At 17:35 11/12/2002 +, Gib Mij wrote:



How do we avoid hypocrisy, yet at the same time continually strive to
exceed our own limits?  Jesus is the only perfect example.  At more
reflective moments, the goal of being like him seems impossibly remote
and discouraging.




But you, my friend, are generally willing to admit your 
shortcomings.  Therein lies the difference.

Till the not so great himself

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Re: [ZION] Truman (was Taliban in pakistan)

At 21:15 11/11/2002 -0600, Gary wrote:


Wilford Woodruff divided the nations after WWI, including making a new
nation called Yugoslavia.



Whoa, I think this must be a typo.   8>))


Till the getting dizzier by the minute

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RE: [ZION] A Whirlwind Trip South

At 17:47 11/11/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:
 Now that you are no longer working for Microsoft, do you still have the 
tenacious loyalty to them that you used to feel?


John,

Speaking of your great love for Microsoft, my daughter just sent me this 
link.  Thought you would appreciate it, if you haven't already seen it.


http://www.ucomics.com/foxtrot/2002/10/31/


Till

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

At 16:20 11/10/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:
  Another was "the shot heard 'round the world" fired at Lexington and 
Concord.  I wish we could do it again.  It would have been wonderful to 
have lived in that day when freedom was a flame upon every lip, or at least 
every lip that mattered.



I stood in the middle of that bridge one day in a snowstorm and 
contemplated the great things that took place there.  It was a powerful 
moment.  I am grateful for my ancestors and their associates who cared 
enough about freedom to sacrifice their comfort and safety to secure them.

Till

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Re: [ZION] War against all of Islam

At 17:42 11/9/2002 -0600, St Paul not Minnesota wrote:

Tell me the name
of just one Muslim that does not despise the Jews and wish that their
nation was dissolved?




Munther Unes.  A very fine gentleman if ever I have met one.


Till

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Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

At 12:45 11/9/2002 -0700, Steven wrote:



The primary target was Kokura, a major munitions manufacturing center. 
Kokura was obscured by clouds and smoke (leftover from an earlier raid on 
a nearby city) so the bombadier couldn't get an exact target despite three 
separate passes. The secondary target was Nagasaki which was also obscured 
by clouds but after a couple of passes the clouds parted, and the rest is 
history.



As though precision was really necessary.  Hindsight is always very good.

Till the ever watchful

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Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

At 09:31 11/9/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:


I was in one of the classrooms at Parirenwatwa Hospital (formerly Sir Sanford
Fleming Hospital) in Harare, Zimbabwe, about 7 or 8 years ago, and saw a 
display
of what happened when a janitor picked up a small vial of caesium powder 
and put
it in his pocket (it was a lesson on the need for proper storage security 
-- this
kind of incident would be unthinkable in an OECD country's hospital. One would
hope, anyway). He only had it for a day before he gave it to a doctor,



How comforting.  My office is sandwiched between a plant growth room and 
Cesium storage.

Till the glow-worm

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Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

At 23:18 11/8/2002 -0800, Stacey wrote:

Where do the Mexicans align themselves?



Certainly not at a border crossing!

Till the ever-watchful

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Re: [ZION] Mission Call

At 11:39 11/7/2002 -0500, you wrote:

At 08:24 11/7/2002 -0700, you wrote:

Which mission in Sao Paulo, do you know?

(for a map of the missions in Brazil, see:
http://www.gatheringofisrael.com/atlas/latin_america/brazil/mbrazil.gif)
To put things in perspective, there are 7 missions in Sao Paulo Estado 
alone, and
only 8 in all of Canada.


I've made the inquiry and awaiting the reply.  BTW, the link didn't 
work.  I can get to it through the menus OK though.


Inquiry made --  Sao Paulo North

Till

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Re: [ZION] Mission Call

At 08:24 11/7/2002 -0700, you wrote:

Which mission in Sao Paulo, do you know?

(for a map of the missions in Brazil, see:
http://www.gatheringofisrael.com/atlas/latin_america/brazil/mbrazil.gif)
To put things in perspective, there are 7 missions in Sao Paulo Estado 
alone, and
only 8 in all of Canada.


I've made the inquiry and awaiting the reply.  BTW, the link didn't 
work.  I can get to it through the menus OK though.

Till

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[ZION] Mission Call


My daughter got her mission call yesterday, to Sao Paulo.   She was basking 
in the irony.  She had a terrible experience in Brasil this summer, and 
came back dreadfully ill and exhausted.

Till

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

At 21:54 11/6/2002 -0600, Gryy wrote:

Though your text book told you about biology, you still cut into that
frog in class. Why? To prove the statements in the book that a frog does
have heart, lungs, etc.
Each time you turn on a light switch, you do it with faith, because you
have previously tested the theory that it will normally turn on the
light. When the light doesn't come on, then new theories appear: the bulb
is broken, the power is out, the wiring is messed up, etc. To get this
fixed, we must test each possible answer until the evidence points us to
the correct one.
IN other words, we test theories out each and every day. Most are on
things that are not earth shattering.



They are for the frog!


Till the champion of the under-amphibian

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Re: [ZION] Reconstructing the Clinton legacy

At 20:21 11/5/2002 +, Goodfriend Scott wrote:

On Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:01:45 -0500, "Elmer L. Fairbank"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> At 19:30 11/5/2002 +, Goodfriend Scott wrote:
> >On Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:39:36 -0500, "Elmer L. Fairbank"
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>>> At 18:04 11/2/2002 +, Gib Mij wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm always confused by this peculir application of the term "women's
>>>>rights".  I'd kinda like to know exactly what constitutes the analogous
>>>>"men's rights".
>>>
>>> The right to work, pay taxes and die.
>>
>>Yeah! What Till said! Except he forgot to mention alimony and child
>>support too.
>
> Alas, my friend, you make me feel guilty that I don't have these.  Am I a
> substandard American male?

No, my friend Till, you are the deluxe edition without these negative
"features"!



Kind of like Monopoly with gold plated pieces???


Till who is still waiting for that pickup call from the Syracuse Airport

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Re: [ZION] Reconstructing the Clinton legacy

At 19:30 11/5/2002 +, Goodfriend Scott wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2002 07:39:36 -0500, "Elmer L. Fairbank"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> At 18:04 11/2/2002 +, Gib Mij wrote:
>
> >I'm always confused by this peculir application of the term "women's
> >rights".  I'd kinda like to know exactly what constitutes the analogous
> >"men's rights".
>
> The right to work, pay taxes and die.

Yeah! What Till said! Except he forgot to mention alimony and child
support too.



Alas, my friend, you make me feel guilty that I don't have these.  Am I a 
substandard American male?

Till the crushed

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

At 19:16 11/4/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:

Anyone here remember that old cartoon about the swing? There are about half a
dozen ridiculous drawings of a simple swing in ridiculous configurations, 
which
go from: what the salesman booked, what the marketeer spec'ed, what the 
engineer
built, and so on, until the final one was a simple rope with a tire at the 
end,
labelled "what the customer wanted".


It was, in fact swinging through my mind when I read it.


Till

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs...

At 20:15 11/4/2002 -0600, Super Gary wrote:

These I believe
are necessary to recognize truth from error, but also to help me in
problem solving (which God obviously does much of).



Yes, now that he has ME to deal with!

Till

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

At 15:57 11/4/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:


Exactly!  I can see that we are singing from the same hymnal.



Yes, PAGE 302!


Till (don't you just love it when they say page instead of number?)

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

At 14:53 11/4/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:

Sorry. I guess that's one episode I don't remember, although something vaguely
rings a bell. Or something rings a vague bell. Or vaguely rings a somewhat 
bell.

Sorry, not an episode, but a film classic, The Holy Grail.

"Elmer L. Fairbank" wrote:

> At 11:34 11/4/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:
> >?
> >I don't get it.
> >
> >"Elmer L. Fairbank" wrote:
> >
> > > At 22:01 11/1/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote (and wrote):
> > > >  So maybe to me I see a "turdus migratoris"
> > > >[guess why I've always remembered *this* one!!]  but my 4-year old
> > > >granddaughter
> > > >sees a "robin" and her little 2-year old friend sees a "birdie." And
> > is it the
> > > >European robin or the New World robin? They're not the same.
> > >
> > > Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?
> > >
> > > Till the helpful
> > >
>
> Hint:  Monty Python
>
> Till
>
> 
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--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

The first duty of a university is to teach wisdom, not a trade; 
character, not
technicalities. We want a lot of engineers in the modern world, but we 
dont want
a world of engineers.  Sir Winston Churchill (1950)

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors 
employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

At 11:34 11/4/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote:

?
I don't get it.

"Elmer L. Fairbank" wrote:

> At 22:01 11/1/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote (and wrote):
> >  So maybe to me I see a "turdus migratoris"
> >[guess why I've always remembered *this* one!!]  but my 4-year old
> >granddaughter
> >sees a "robin" and her little 2-year old friend sees a "birdie." And 
is it the
> >European robin or the New World robin? They're not the same.
>
> Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?
>
> Till the helpful
>



Hint:  Monty Python



Till

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

At 14:03 11/3/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:

I'm just a black and white kind of guy.


Yes, I noticed that about your hair, last time I saw you, John.  8>))


Till

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Re: [ZION] scriptures are not secular?

At 15:23 11/3/2002 -0600, St Paul (not Minnesota) wrote:



Also, maybe our whole religious experience is self induced with naturally
occurring chemicals in our brains that make us wishy washy? Maybe the
whole thing is a joke? Maybe we don't even really exist. Would someone
pinch me please?




Maybe our whole universe is just an atom in God's big toe?   Careful not to 
stub your toe, God**


Till

** Loosely quoted from Odd Bodkins

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Re: [ZION] Reconstructing the Clinton legacy

At 18:04 11/2/2002 +, Gib Mij wrote:


I'm always confused by this peculir application of the term "women's
rights".  I'd kinda like to know exactly what constitutes the analogous
"men's rights".



The right to work, pay taxes and die.

Till the helpful

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

At 23:13 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:
 Otherwise, it is just a long essay on "how I look at things."


Till prefers very short essays on how he looks at things.

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

At 22:01 11/1/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote (and wrote):

 So maybe to me I see a "turdus migratoris"
[guess why I've always remembered *this* one!!]  but my 4-year old 
granddaughter
sees a "robin" and her little 2-year old friend sees a "birdie." And is it the
European robin or the New World robin? They're not the same.



Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?

Till the helpful

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

At 15:53 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:

The oldest secular writings, from ancient Sumer, also speak of a Great Flood.


Yes, but they were obviously primitive unenlightened people, whose 
superstitions count for nothing in the light of scientific truth and so 
must be brushed away with all the other human debris that came 
before.  They weren't as "advanced" as we of the enlightenment, the 
glorious age of knowledge and reason; those whose conceit knows no bounds.

Till the cynical

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

At 15:29 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:
  Was Ammon defending a flock of turkeys when he cut all those guys arms off?


Till thinks that he was defending the sheep FROM flocks of turkeys!

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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

At 13:27 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:


It seems to me that an honest scholar would just stick to writing things 
he can authenticate using the documentary record, or at least the 
archaeological record.  In the absence of such records the author isn't 
just engaging in unfounded supposition, he is engaged in irresponsible 
guessing and wild speculation.  That is, he is just making up the 
story.  Such a book is fiction, not nonfiction.


Ah, yes, but now it becomes part of the scholarly record, to be quoted ad 
nauseum, with the wild speculation becoming more and more a concrete truth 
with every scholarly citation.

Till

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RE: [ZION] The veil

2002-10-30 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 00:37 10/31/2002 +0800, His Grace, Bishop Mark wrote:


Of course, a truly modern version of this sonnet would be unprintable, but 
cleaned up it might go something like:

Can love last forever?
And what if it did?
Nights like when Tom called to say that he couldn't come back
Because nothing felt the same anymore
Seared her soul and she thought "Why not?"
"I've found a younger, truer kind of love," he said.
And she wanted to scream and scream at him like a banshee
For knowing how a wrinkle killed the bloom of romance.
She hated his guts forever but he never thought about it.
Anyway, that's how I see it.


Good job, that's a real masterpiece of translation.



Poets must be a distinctly unhappy lot.  But then, I believe that they do 
sometimes accurately reflect the spirit of the times.  (Tom, Elf and other 
present company excepted, of course).


Not so, my friend, my finest poetry always comes out of some sort of 
misery.  I'll take the first statement, Poets must be a distinctly unhappy 
lot.

Till who is ONLY speaking for himself

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Re: [ZION] aurora borealis spotting

2002-10-30 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 07:59 10/30/2002 -0700, His Grace, El Presidente Tom wrote:

Dear JWR and others,

I'm beginning (just beginning mind you) to have parallel thoughts to the
venerable ELF.



Will this disqualify you from being Stake President?  I should think it 
would in short order, rate some smartly.   Till has had a lot of callings 
over the years, some cool and some silly, but has never done any of them 
really wellHe eventually gets fired so someone else can 
straighten out the mess.


 I knew he was going to write this before I read it.



At least he's predictable, n'est-ce-pas?   Those remaining two neurons are 
easy to second-guess.


I know it is
prideful for me to admit to such flights of heady brilliance, but I can't help
being pleased that I have made such progress.



That's clearly negative pride, like sayin' I'm Leroy Brown, the biggest, 
baddest, meanest dude in town (or was that Slim?), or at least that's the 
gist of it.  Could get you a nice little chat with the Area 70 nonetheless.


And, of course, I'm somewhat
envious of Marc's view as well. Do you have a drawbridge or something so 
you can
get across that mote in your front yard or do you wait for total freeze up and
let the dogs take you around?


See how you took this to a more practical plane.  I was just so overawed at 
his front yard that I never even gave taking out the trash on Tuesday a 
second thought.

I saw the Aurora once at my house, but it just looked like somebody 
flashing a searchlight around the sky randomly.  We're just too far south 
and too perpetually overcast for any real displays.  Plus, I usually sleep 
at night, lazy creature of habit that I am.


Till, who actually doesn't have trash pickup, but the recycling truck comes 
on Monday and if it won't recycle, he don't want it around.

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Re: [ZION] aurora borealis spotting

2002-10-30 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 23:36 10/29/2002 -0700, you wrote:

Okay, some people are train spotters. I'm an aurora spotter. We've had
aurorae for some time now. My wife woke me up at 04:00 one morning to
see a very unusual display. It was a greenish white swoosh across the
entire sky, with the moon right in the middle. Very neat.  I've uploaded
a very nice picture of the aurora if anyone's interested. It happens to
be a digital picture, actually, but is still a spectacular picture.
http://www.geocities.com/marcschindler1/aurora.jpg



Wow, THAT'S the view from your porch?  I'm impressed!

Till

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RE: [ZION] High Priests

2002-10-25 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 03:13 10/25/2002 +, St Stephen wrote:


Perhaps you should tell Elders Maxwell, Nelson, and Hilbig about Occam's
razor, so they can get their acts together.




What's a razor?


Till

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Re: [ZION] The Jerusalem Temple

2002-10-25 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 12:46 10/24/2002 -0700, Uncle Dan wrote:

We might be in for a surprise here. The key, I think, is in the actual
consecration of the temple. The Jews will probably build it, as a temple,
but it won't actually meet the Lord's requirements until consecrated by His
church.
Consider that you can receive the same blessing of safety in your home that
you could by being in a temple, but there is no requirement that it's
construction be performed by His church in anyway.
I think that the Jerusalem Temple will have to be built by the Israelites
living there as part of their covenant. they won't have the authority to
consecrate it, but the actual construction could be done in the faith that
God will provide the means once it's accomplished. That's where His church
would step in.



Very good observation, Dan.  It certainly resonates as a possible scenario.

Till

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Re: [ZION] The Jerusalem Temple

At 12:10 10/24/2002 -0500, St Paul wrote:



I think we have been here before. It's a good subject. I say that the
Jews can't build a temple that the Lord will accept. A temple must be
built and consecrated to the Lord Jesus Christ and the Jews cannot do
that.

The temple in Jerusalem will be built by the LDS church for in behalf of
Mormon Jews. The LDS church is the only people under the heavens that can
perform such a work. To think that the Jews will build a temple outside
of the authority of the Mormons is just like saying the Jehovah's
Witnesses can do so too. There is no scriptural reference to support such
an idea.



Somebody should have clued Solomon in on this idea!  Could have saved him a 
lot of expense.  Likewise Zarubabel.  Herod's another story.

IOW, I don't rule out the possibility, although in principle I agree.  I 
just think that such statements are too uncomfortably close to "a bible, a 
bible, we have a bible" to suit me.   The Lord will do whatever he wants, 
without consulting me first.  (good thing for the world, too)


Till

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Re: [ZION] James' Ossuary

At 20:33 10/23/2002 -0800, BLT wrote:


Maybe with satellite technology they will eventually solve the riddle of 
the Ark which some suppose is on Ararat to this day.  Haven't they used 
sophisticated imaging and satellite technology to find roads and cities 
buried under the sands of the Arabian peninsula?  Maybe they will learn to 
see through ice.  I'd love to know what is on the surface buried thousands 
of feet beneath the southern, Antarctic icecap.  If the earth has actually 
shifted its axis, and climates were once very much different, who knows 
what they might find?


Maybe even that pen I set down somewhere and can't seem to recall where.

Till  (or single socks!)

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RE: [ZION] High Priest

At 02:55 10/24/2002 +, St Stephen wrote:


If a man who has previously served as elder's quorum president, then
been released, is again called to serve, he does not need to have the
keys given him. He already has them. The same applies to a former bishop
who is called to serve again as bishop, or a former stake president
called to serve again as stake president, etc. Mark, Larry, Till,
correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my understanding.



My understanding is that this is not correct.  The priesthood office 
remains but the keys to function in that role/stewardship are removed.  Who 
was it at conference told of being bishop and losing his date night.  He 
also said that after he was released it was impossible for him to give 
counsel as he had.  I have actually felt the mantle of authority leave (a 
phenomenon I would describe as being physical, replaced by a stupor of 
thought, our current state) when released from leadership callings.

Till  the no-longer enlightened

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Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

At 21:46 10/23/2002 -0500, St Paul wrote:

I will admit that I used
to annoyed about it in the past.


Till detects that it is still unresolved


But it is the Lord's church and he can
do whatever he wants, so I have come to accept it.



You're on the right track, though


but I'm sure he had sufficient for his means


Here's the key.





I'm working on it. :-)




Absolutely the best statement  yet.  With this, all things can be accomplished.



Till, who hopes he hasn't offended

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Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

At 21:43 10/23/2002 -0500, Gary wrote:


The Brethren had comfortable lives because they earned a comfortable
life.



Not so sure I agree, Gary.  Reference Approaching Zion Chapters 4 and 
5.  Not so sure earned is the correct choice of terms here.

Till

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Re: [ZION] Tweaking Liechtensteiners

2002-10-23 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 23:05 10/22/2002 -0500, M Marc wrote:

I once had to cross
three provinces in Canada to find an open restaurant!



I hope one of them wasn't Ontario.  You could get mighty smackin' hungry 
trying that one.


Till

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Re: [ZION] What's the point of high priests?

2002-10-23 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank

At 16:05 10/21/2002 -0500, Gary wrote:


Of course, now we have to figure out what to do with all the taunting.



We'll be taunting tonight on the old campground .



Till

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Re: [ZION] High priests

At 12:08 10/22/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote:



My spouse is a Vulcan, and she's giving me the death grip.



Till was Vulcanized once.  To keep his brains from leaking 
out.  Unfortunately, it was too little, too late


Till who's too "tired" to go "round and round" on this, so just "wheel" me 
on out, but don't "brake" my "belt" 'cause my belly "dunlop" over it.  Bet 
you think I heard that one on the "radial", but it just keep "spinning" off 
of Till's "rotor"-tiller "flat" out.   It sure was a "good year".  That's 
what you get for hanging out with people of my low "caliper"  Can you stop 
beating that "drum" while I get my "bearings"   I'll just go "ply" myself 
elswhere, Oh, my head, stop  this "biased" "tread" 
...   Hs
s
s
s
s
s
s
s
s
s
s

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Re: [ZION] High priests

At 08:48 10/22/2002 -0400, Patient noJ wrote:

Till - every time we went over this handshake I tried to wake you up, but to
no avail.  I would have had your home teacher go over it with you, but we
can only teach it in the HP group meeting.



They sure were cool dreams, too.  Something to do with all the people of 
the world.  Can't remember for the life of me how it went, though.  That's 
what they get for scheduling our meetings from 11:00 on.  By PH I'm well 
into nap-time.  Actually, my HT would need to show up first anyway!

We had our Snake Conference this last weekend.  Elder Pace told a story of 
Pres Hinckley:  He starting to remind them that he's getting old.  He never 
buys green bananas anymore! He says that one of these days he's going to be 
called home.  They will have his body there in the tabernacle and thousands 
will come to see it.  Then the brethren will come to close the 
casket.  When they do, he's going to sit up, point his finger at them, and 
remind them that every investigator needs three things. .

Till

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Re: [ZION] High priests

At 07:59 10/21/2002 -0500, Gary wrote:


And yes, we have a secret handshake that you elders know nothing
about.




What???  I thought that was just the special grip that we use to keep 
each other from falling out of chairs when we fell asleep.

Till

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[ZION] Greetings from Tom Valetta