Re: [***SPAM*** Score/Req: 10.41/04.00] Re: [Zope] Leave the ivory tower now!

2006-01-09 Thread Garito 

Jonathan escribió:


To pour fuel on the flames...
 
+1 DTML

-1 ZPT
 
Why...
 
1) For 'quick and dirty' demos and rapid application prototyping DTML 
does the trick (yes, even including ZClasses), it is fast, easy, 
reasonably robust and it works!
 
2) For 'heavy lifting' (ie. intense computation, high loads, etc.) I 
prefer a 'product' approach.
 
3) For client-side functionality/control I prefer an AJAX approach 
using a combination of javascript/HTML/XHTML/XHTML-MP plus server-side 
python scripts/external methods/products.
 
ZPT is a bit of a hybrid which increases overhead and doesn't really 
bring any new functionality to the table (for my applications and 
environment).  Yes, for separating (well, mostly separating) content 
from display formatting ZPT is one possible solution, but the divorce 
of content and presentation is better achieved with an AJAX type of 
approach.
 
I think Zope beginners would be better off using DTML (easier to 
learn, user's get quicker results and therefore have more satisfaction 
with Zope as a development platform), and then 'serious' development 
should be done using an AJAX approach with Zope 3 - the way of the 
future imho :-)
 
If we had to make a choice for the future I would prefer Zope 2 + DTML 
and Zope 3 + AJAX (and consign ZPT to the 'good idea at the time' 
bin).  Possibly, in the distant future, AJAX utilities/ides will exist 
which will make rapid prototyping and 'quick & dirty' demos feasible, 
in which case Zope 2 + DTML could fade into happy history.
 
Just my 1-1/2 cents.
 
 
Jonathan
 


- Original Message -
*From:* Greg Fischer 
*Cc:* zope@zope.org 
*Sent:* Sunday, January 08, 2006 5:06 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Zope] Leave the ivory tower now!

Yes, we need hype!  And a "hot" looking site, WITH Web 2.0 features. 


Many of these frameworks are providing AJAX capabilities, simple
graphics and data/object access without page reloads.  (like I am
using with Dojo right now)  What does Zope not provide these
features "built-in"?

And yes, about the central docs.  A ton of info is available right
on Zope.org , but I always find more on
individual blogs or other google searches.  Zope.org
could use a more intuitive help finder maybe. 
Actually, how aboot a Zopedigg?  Diggs on just Zope articles and

such, with comments?  That would be hot!  Better and easier than a
wiki, IMHO.  The one thing I would say is, from my perspective,
when I have info to share on Zope work I have done, I like to post
on my blog or site, not Zope's. Because I like to provide a demo
or maybe include things *my* way.  Having a ZopeDigg would allow
us to post our work in a central repository, and look a little
flashy too.

The video tutorial should be made.  Like RoR and Symfony-project
have.  It shows beginners how easy something is to do.  And they
will download it.  I did. 


Also, I know this will get some people flaming probably, but Zope
needs more hype for DTML. I KNOW!  99% of you hate it.  But every
time I show someone how to do it, their eyes light up.  It's very
simple coming from ASP or PHP, once you see it in action.  ZPT is
just plain confusing to me.  I hate to say this too, but I am
doing much more in PHP these days, partly due to the fact that
there exists a large "dtml sucks" attitude in the community.  And
even though it has been said that DTML is not going away, if there
is no hype about it, then it might.  And I don't want to keep
using Zope without it. Yes, yes, I know DTML has many
disadvantages, but it also has many advantages.  I wish there were
more hype about it. 


So, here's a big "wish" of mine too.  What if Zope was a
*complete* framework, including a web based IDE?  I dont mean the
ZMI, which is hot in itself, but a full featured AJAX-ish IDE,
built upon Zope. Drag and drop widgets and properties even. It
would also have full database access built in. Mysql, Mssql,
Oracle, Postgresql, all ready to go, without needing to purchase
and configure a database adapter.  This would provide a web based,
development framework like .NET using Visual Studio.  Only this
would work on Zope, and therefore would run on Linux OR Windows! 
It doesnt have to be so comprehensive like VS, but simple form

editor with properties and XMLHTTPRequest capability would be
great.  I think we would have a KILLER APP!

Well, maybe I am dreamin?  Just thought I'd give my 2 cents.

Oh, and is the community growing? Well, I think the Netcraft
surveys say a lot.  I know this isnt definitive, but I think it's
great info.  Since I started using Zope in 2002, the sites using
Zope have grown from 6000 to 42000.  Cool!

42000+ Sites in 2006
http://survey.netcraft.com/Reports/0601/

6

Re: [Zope] Leave the ivory tower now!

2006-01-09 Thread Jens Vagelpohl 


On 9 Jan 2006, at 13:29, Garito wrote:
<13 KB deleted>

Please clean up the subject line to remove your spam filter's  
markings before you reply. And don't quote a whole long discussion  
including countless message footers only to add one line to the bottom.


Thanks!

jens

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[Zope] 2.9.0 install

2006-01-09 Thread Joachim Schmitz 
hi,

I just downloaded Zope-2.9.0.tgz and in the README.txt it says:
Installation information can be found in ''doc/INSTALL.txt'' this
apparently must read ''Zope/doc/INSTALL.txt''



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Hüsgenstr. 33a .d-52457 Aldenhoven .f: +49-2464-905163
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Re: [Zope] 2.9.0 install

2006-01-09 Thread Andreas Jung 

already fixed

--On 9. Januar 2006 15:22:49 +0100 Joachim Schmitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


hi,

I just downloaded Zope-2.9.0.tgz and in the README.txt it says:
Installation information can be found in ''doc/INSTALL.txt'' this
apparently must read ''Zope/doc/INSTALL.txt''



--
Mit freundlichen GrüßenJoachim Schmitz
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Hüsgenstr. 33a .d-52457 Aldenhoven .f: +49-2464-905163
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[Zope] Going to 3.0

2006-01-09 Thread Fernando Lujan 
We use a Psycopg connection, and Z SQL Objects... We don't have any
programs written in python that use zope interfaces and so on.

We have a entire site written in DTML in Zope 2.x. Now, after some
discuss here We want to migrate it to Zope3.x. and start to develop
using the zope 3 facilities and OO and ZPT.

I already install Zope 3.1.0 and try to copy the Data.fs. But it
produces a lot of erros. How can I handle this?

Will exist a way to migrate from Zope 2.x to Zope 3.x?

Thanks in advance.

Fernando Lujan
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Re: [Zope] Going to 3.0

2006-01-09 Thread Lennart Regebro 
On 1/9/06, Fernando Lujan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We use a Psycopg connection, and Z SQL Objects... We don't have any
> programs written in python that use zope interfaces and so on.
>
> We have a entire site written in DTML in Zope 2.x. Now, after some
> discuss here We want to migrate it to Zope3.x. and start to develop
> using the zope 3 facilities and OO and ZPT.
>
> I already install Zope 3.1.0 and try to copy the Data.fs. But it
> produces a lot of erros. How can I handle this?
>
> Will exist a way to migrate from Zope 2.x to Zope 3.x?

Zope 3 is not backwards compatible with Zope 2. There will probably
not exist an *easy* way to "migrate" as such. People are slowly
working on merging the frameworks so that it will be possible to run
both Zope 2 and Zope 3 programs on the same server, but we are not
there yet. Migration will be an application level affair, meaning that
if you have a custom Zope 2 application, you will have to make the
migration yourself.

Sorry for this negative sounding answer. Zope 3 is super cool, but it
is a super cool development platform. Zope 2 was super cool too, and
Zope 3 is even super cooler. But moving to Zope 3 is at the moment a
lot of development work (you basically need to rewrite your
applictaion completely) and unless you plan on doing that anyway, you
should probably just stick with Zope 2 for the time being. :)

--
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
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Re: [Zope] Going to 3.0

2006-01-09 Thread Lennart Regebro 
Oh, I forgot:

http://blogs.nuxeo.com/sections/blogs/lennart_regebro/2005_10_04_zope2-vs-zope3-faq
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Re: [Zope] Going to 3.0

2006-01-09 Thread Andreas Jung 



--On 9. Januar 2006 12:41:46 -0200 Fernando Lujan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



I already install Zope 3.1.0 and try to copy the Data.fs.



From where to where?



But it
produces a lot of erros. How can I handle this?


Which errors?

-aj

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Re: [Zope] Going to 3.0

2006-01-09 Thread Paul Winkler 
On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 12:41:46PM -0200, Fernando Lujan wrote:
> We use a Psycopg connection, and Z SQL Objects... We don't have any
> programs written in python that use zope interfaces and so on.
> 
> We have a entire site written in DTML in Zope 2.x. Now, after some
> discuss here We want to migrate it to Zope3.x. and start to develop
> using the zope 3 facilities and OO and ZPT.
> 
> I already install Zope 3.1.0 and try to copy the Data.fs. But it
> produces a lot of erros. How can I handle this?

Zope 3 is not backward-compatible to Zope 2.
You can not copy a Data.fs between them.
 
> Will exist a way to migrate from Zope 2.x to Zope 3.x?

In general the migration path looks like:

1) Rewrite your app gradually using Zope 2.8, 2.9, 2.10 (when it comes
out) and gradually leverage more and more features of zope 3 via the
"Five" compatibility layer.  (This is likely to be much harder if you
have significant dependencies on third-party code.)

2) ??? 

3) export your data from zope 2 somehow, and re-import into zope 3. You
may have to write some of your own serialization code.

Step 2 is not well defined at this point in time :=)

-- 

Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
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Re: [Zope] Zope 2.8.5 install

2006-01-09 Thread Robert Conner 
Tim,

Thanks for compiling that and setting up the windows installer.
However, I don't believe it works. Sorry it took me so long to get
back to you. I wanted to try installing this on a second computer
before I wrote back. On both of them it starts the cmd window and
displays the command called to run, and then fails to finish the load
up or start the server. Possibly it does work and both of my systems
are configured wrong, but I couldn't get either install to run.

Also, Zope 2.9 is out, if you had planned to make a Windows binary for
that also.

-Rob Conner


On 1/6/06, Tim Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [Tim Peters]
> > ...
> > I didn't even realize Andreas had released 2.8.5.  I'll build a
> > Windows installer for it (I already have everything needed to do that)
> > and put it on the download page later today:
> >
> > http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.8.5
>
> Zope-2.8.5-final-win32.exe is available from that page now.  Enjoy!
>


--
Robert Conner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www-student.cse.buffalo.edu/~rtconner
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[Zope] Applying updates to zope site

2006-01-09 Thread Brian Sullivan 
I am involved in maintaining a remote Zope site that is behind a
firewall where I have no remote access.

I have a (parallel) site that I use to test changes and upgrades that
is accessible to me.  I am a looking for a straightforward way to
package tested changes, send and have changes applied at the other end
-- without my physical presence (there is a systems maintenance person
a the other with reasonable broad systems knowledge but no in depth
Zope experience). The changes in this case consist of changes to or
new python scripts, dhtml methods and documents, or images spread
throughout a hierarchy of folders on the site.

The only thing I can come up with so far is a (probably fairly painful
and error prone) set of instructions for updating files one by one.

Anybody have any other ideas?
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Re: [Zope] Applying updates to zope site

2006-01-09 Thread Paul Winkler 
On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 10:15:41AM -0500, Brian Sullivan wrote:
> I am involved in maintaining a remote Zope site that is behind a
> firewall where I have no remote access.
> 
> I have a (parallel) site that I use to test changes and upgrades that
> is accessible to me.  I am a looking for a straightforward way to
> package tested changes, send and have changes applied at the other end
> -- without my physical presence (there is a systems maintenance person
> a the other with reasonable broad systems knowledge but no in depth
> Zope experience). The changes in this case consist of changes to or
> new python scripts, dhtml methods and documents, or images spread
> throughout a hierarchy of folders on the site.

Just to clarify the question:
Your terminology ("folders", "dtml methods" etc.) suggests (but not
conclusively) that all the changes you are concerned with are to data
that lives in the ZODB.  Is that true?  

-- 

Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
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Re: [Zope] Applying updates to zope site

2006-01-09 Thread Martijn Pieters 
We use a separete lib directory containing versioned Zope Product
directories. That's versioned as in the directory name reflects the
version. These get symlinked into the actual Products directory. For
example:

 lib/Foo-1.10.1
 lib/Bar-2.2.3
 lib/Bar-2.2.4

and in the Products directory a version of each Product is symlinked,
usually the most recent:

 Products/Foo -> ../lib/Foo-1.10.1
 Products/Bar -> ../lib/Bar-2.2.4

We of course keep our development code in a subversion repository, and
tag releases with version numbers. Pushing out a new release then
becomes a simple process:

1) Create a tarball from a repository export, with a versioned directory name
  $ svn export url://to.repository/Foo/tags/1.11.0 Foo-1.11.0
  $ tar czvf Foo-1.11.0.tgz Foo-1.11.0

2) Copy the tarball to the server and extract it in the lib directory
of the Zope server

3) Repoint the Products symlink:
  $ rm Foo && ln -s ../lib/Foo-1.11.0 Foo

4) Restart the Zope server

It should be trivial to have someone with sysadmin experience do steps
2-4 for you.

--
Martijn Pieters
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Re: [Zope] Applying updates to zope site

2006-01-09 Thread Brian Sullivan 
On 1/9/06, Paul Winkler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 10:15:41AM -0500, Brian Sullivan wrote:
> > I am involved in maintaining a remote Zope site that is behind a
> > firewall where I have no remote access.
> >
> > I have a (parallel) site that I use to test changes and upgrades that
> > is accessible to me.  I am a looking for a straightforward way to
> > package tested changes, send and have changes applied at the other end
> > -- without my physical presence (there is a systems maintenance person
> > a the other with reasonable broad systems knowledge but no in depth
> > Zope experience). The changes in this case consist of changes to or
> > new python scripts, dhtml methods and documents, or images spread
> > throughout a hierarchy of folders on the site.
>
> Just to clarify the question:
> Your terminology ("folders", "dtml methods" etc.) suggests (but not
> conclusively) that all the changes you are concerned with are to data
> that lives in the ZODB.  Is that true?
>

Yes that is what I was implying.
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Re: [Zope] Applying updates to zope site

2006-01-09 Thread Brian Sullivan 
On 1/9/06, Martijn Pieters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We use a separete lib directory containing versioned Zope Product
> directories. That's versioned as in the directory name reflects the
> version. These get symlinked into the actual Products directory. For
> example:
>
>  lib/Foo-1.10.1
>  lib/Bar-2.2.3
>  lib/Bar-2.2.4
>
> and in the Products directory a version of each Product is symlinked,
> usually the most recent:
>
>  Products/Foo -> ../lib/Foo-1.10.1
>  Products/Bar -> ../lib/Bar-2.2.4
>
> We of course keep our development code in a subversion repository, and
> tag releases with version numbers. Pushing out a new release then
> becomes a simple process:
>
> 1) Create a tarball from a repository export, with a versioned directory name
>  $ svn export url://to.repository/Foo/tags/1.11.0 Foo-1.11.0
>  $ tar czvf Foo-1.11.0.tgz Foo-1.11.0
>
> 2) Copy the tarball to the server and extract it in the lib directory
> of the Zope server
>
> 3) Repoint the Products symlink:
>  $ rm Foo && ln -s ../lib/Foo-1.11.0 Foo
>
> 4) Restart the Zope server
>
> It should be trivial to have someone with sysadmin experience do steps
> 2-4 for you.
>
> --
> Martijn Pieters
>

I think there is a disconnect. You are talking about Products being
upgraded -- at least that is what I glean from you post?

I am talking about ZODB based elements.

Or am I missing something?
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Re: [Zope] Zope 2.8.5 install

2006-01-09 Thread Tim Peters 
[Robert Conner]
> Thanks for compiling that and setting up the windows installer.
> However, I don't believe it works. Sorry it took me so long to get
> back to you. I wanted to try installing this on a second computer
> before I wrote back. On both of them it

What is "it"?  Please spell out exactly what you did.  The installer
was tested on Win XP Pro SP2 and worked fine there.  I just downloaded
it again, and had no problems:

- Ran the installer, and accepted all the defaults.

- In particular, accepting all the defaults runs Zope as a Windows service, so
  Zope starts automatically, and the installer brings up the

 Zope Windows Binary Post-Installation QuickStart

  page in a broswer.

- I clicked on "Zope Management Interface" in that, and entered the admin
  password I gave to the installer when it asked for one.

- I was then logged in to the ZMI, in a running Zope 2.8.5.

I have no idea what you did, because you really didn't say ;-)

> starts the cmd window and displays the command called to run,

Sorry, I'm not picturing what you did at all.  Needs more words.

> and then fails to finish the load up or start the server. Possibly it does 
> work
> and both of my systems are configured wrong, but I couldn't get either install
> to run.

So I'll try something else:

- I stopped the Zope service (by using the Windows Services applet).

- Opened a DOS box and cd'ed to the root of the instance home (\Zope-Instance,
  the default created by the installer).

- Typed "bin\runzope" and hit ENTER.  This is exactly what was displayed in
  the console then:

C:\Zope-Instance>bin\runzope

C:\Zope-Instance>"C:\Program Files\Zope-2.8.5-final\bin\python.exe"
"C:\Program Files\Zope-2.8.5-final\lib\python\Zope2\
Startup\run.py" -C "C:\Zope-Instance\etc\zope.conf"

There isn't more output, and more isn't expected.

- Waited a while ;-), then opened a browser and typed

  http://localhost:8080/manage

  in the address bar.

- Once again I was then logged in to the ZMI, in a running Zope 2.8.5.

Or another way (something I'd never do in real life, but I guess some
people do):

- Shut down Zope from the last try.

- Clicked Start -> All Programs -> Zope 2.8.5-final -> Run Zope In Console
  That "should be" the same as typing "bin\runzope" by hand as in the last try,
  and indeed it worked the same way.

Did you try one of those ways?  If so, which one?  If not, what did
you try?  If you tried the third way and the goofy little DOS box
"vanished", try the second way instead.  You may get to see a relevant
error message then.  Also look in your instance's var\log\event.log. 
If you're running as a Windows service, look in the Windows
Application and System event logs too.  One particular problem when
running as a service is that Windows Firewall will _not_ prompt you if
it blocks a socket started from a service.  Instead the service hangs
or dies.

> Also, Zope 2.9 is out, if you had planned to make a Windows binary for
> that also.

At this point it's unclear what will happen for that.  Zope 2.9
switches from Python 2.3.5 to Python 2.4.2, and uses zpkgtools for the
first time to package the distribution.  Consequences include that the
code used to build pre-2.9 Zope Windows installers can't work to build
one for 2.9 too.  An unknown amount of new work is needed there, and
AFAICT nobody is working on it.
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Re: [Zope] Zope 2.8.5 install

2006-01-09 Thread Robert Conner 
Well color me purple, it does work.

I was just so used to seeing the "Zope Ready to handle Requests"
message that when it never appeared I just assumed it was not working
at all. I've broken Zope on my computer 100 times and always when its
broken it does not display "Zope Ready to handle Requests". I won't
make any more excuses for myself here, they don't help anything. Man,
I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

>Or another way (something I'd never do in real life, but I guess some
people do)
I always run Zope in the console. The only reason I even use the
Windows version is for development. As far as I can tell the fastest
way for me to stop and restart Zope if to close down the command
window and then start it back up again. When I develop, I restart Zope
all the freeking time, so the faster the restart, the better.

Sorry,
Rob Conner


On 1/9/06, Tim Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [Robert Conner]
> > Thanks for compiling that and setting up the windows installer.
> > However, I don't believe it works. Sorry it took me so long to get
> > back to you. I wanted to try installing this on a second computer
> > before I wrote back. On both of them it
>
> What is "it"?  Please spell out exactly what you did.  The installer
> was tested on Win XP Pro SP2 and worked fine there.  I just downloaded
> it again, and had no problems:
>
> - Ran the installer, and accepted all the defaults.
>
> - In particular, accepting all the defaults runs Zope as a Windows service, so
>   Zope starts automatically, and the installer brings up the
>
>  Zope Windows Binary Post-Installation QuickStart
>
>   page in a broswer.
>
> - I clicked on "Zope Management Interface" in that, and entered the admin
>   password I gave to the installer when it asked for one.
>
> - I was then logged in to the ZMI, in a running Zope 2.8.5.
>
> I have no idea what you did, because you really didn't say ;-)
>
> > starts the cmd window and displays the command called to run,
>
> Sorry, I'm not picturing what you did at all.  Needs more words.
>
> > and then fails to finish the load up or start the server. Possibly it does 
> > work
> > and both of my systems are configured wrong, but I couldn't get either 
> > install
> > to run.
>
> So I'll try something else:
>
> - I stopped the Zope service (by using the Windows Services applet).
>
> - Opened a DOS box and cd'ed to the root of the instance home (\Zope-Instance,
>   the default created by the installer).
>
> - Typed "bin\runzope" and hit ENTER.  This is exactly what was displayed in
>   the console then:
>
> C:\Zope-Instance>bin\runzope
>
> C:\Zope-Instance>"C:\Program Files\Zope-2.8.5-final\bin\python.exe"
> "C:\Program Files\Zope-2.8.5-final\lib\python\Zope2\
> Startup\run.py" -C "C:\Zope-Instance\etc\zope.conf"
>
> There isn't more output, and more isn't expected.
>
> - Waited a while ;-), then opened a browser and typed
>
>   http://localhost:8080/manage
>
>   in the address bar.
>
> - Once again I was then logged in to the ZMI, in a running Zope 2.8.5.
>
> Or another way (something I'd never do in real life, but I guess some
> people do):
>
> - Shut down Zope from the last try.
>
> - Clicked Start -> All Programs -> Zope 2.8.5-final -> Run Zope In Console
>   That "should be" the same as typing "bin\runzope" by hand as in the last 
> try,
>   and indeed it worked the same way.
>
> Did you try one of those ways?  If so, which one?  If not, what did
> you try?  If you tried the third way and the goofy little DOS box
> "vanished", try the second way instead.  You may get to see a relevant
> error message then.  Also look in your instance's var\log\event.log.
> If you're running as a Windows service, look in the Windows
> Application and System event logs too.  One particular problem when
> running as a service is that Windows Firewall will _not_ prompt you if
> it blocks a socket started from a service.  Instead the service hangs
> or dies.
>
> > Also, Zope 2.9 is out, if you had planned to make a Windows binary for
> > that also.
>
> At this point it's unclear what will happen for that.  Zope 2.9
> switches from Python 2.3.5 to Python 2.4.2, and uses zpkgtools for the
> first time to package the distribution.  Consequences include that the
> code used to build pre-2.9 Zope Windows installers can't work to build
> one for 2.9 too.  An unknown amount of new work is needed there, and
> AFAICT nobody is working on it.
>


--
Robert Conner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www-student.cse.buffalo.edu/~rtconner
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Re: [Zope] Zope 2.8.5 install

2006-01-09 Thread Tim Peters 
[Robert Conner]
> Well color me purple, it does work.

Good!  How could anything on Windows fail to work ;-)?

> I was just so used to seeing the "Zope Ready to handle Requests"
> message that when it never appeared I just assumed it was not working
> at all. I've broken Zope on my computer 100 times and always when its
> broken it does not display "Zope Ready to handle Requests". I won't
> make any more excuses for myself here, they don't help anything. Man,
> I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

Not a problem:  if one person doesn't understand what they're seeing,
then at least a hundred more won't understand it either, and it's very
good to have a discussion about it archived on a public mailing list
then.

FWIW, I don't know why Zope doesn't display anything useful in the
console anymore, and I don't even know whether that's unique to
Windows.

>> Or another way (something I'd never do in real life, but I guess some
>> people do)

> I always run Zope in the console.

So do I, but there's difference:  I open a DOS box and type
"bin\runzope" myself.  What I never do is use the Start menu
"shortcut".  A DOS box you open yourself stays visible even if Zope
dies ungracefully, and after the first time you type "bin\runzope" you
only have to hit two keys (up-arrow ENTER) to start it again.

> The only reason I even use the Windows version is for development. As far as 
> I can
> tell the fastest way for me to stop and restart Zope if to close down the 
> command
> window and then start it back up again. When I develop, I restart Zope
> all the freeking time, so the faster the restart, the better.

Doesn't the ZMI have a "restart Zope" button?  If you open your own
DOS box, then a sloppy all-keyboard restart dance is "Ctrl+Break
up-arrow ENTER", and a careful all-keyboard restart dance is "Ctrl+C
up-arrow ENTER".  The latter gives Zope a chance to close files
gracefully, but by the same token it takes longer for Zope to shut
down.  "Ctrl+Break" kills the process instantly (and runs some risk of
leaving data in I/O buffers without writing it to disk).
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Re: [Zope] Applying updates to zope site

2006-01-09 Thread Paul Winkler 
On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 10:39:01AM -0500, Brian Sullivan wrote:
> On 1/9/06, Paul Winkler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 10:15:41AM -0500, Brian Sullivan wrote:
> > > I am involved in maintaining a remote Zope site that is behind a
> > > firewall where I have no remote access.
> > >
> > > I have a (parallel) site that I use to test changes and upgrades that
> > > is accessible to me.  I am a looking for a straightforward way to
> > > package tested changes, send and have changes applied at the other end
> > > -- without my physical presence (there is a systems maintenance person
> > > a the other with reasonable broad systems knowledge but no in depth
> > > Zope experience). The changes in this case consist of changes to or
> > > new python scripts, dhtml methods and documents, or images spread
> > > throughout a hierarchy of folders on the site.
> >
> > Just to clarify the question:
> > Your terminology ("folders", "dtml methods" etc.) suggests (but not
> > conclusively) that all the changes you are concerned with are to data
> > that lives in the ZODB.  Is that true?
> >
> 
> Yes that is what I was implying.

OK. You might try ZSyncer (zsyncer.sf.net).

But you will need *some* kind of remote access to install it in the
Products directory.

ZSyncer won't do "packaging" for you; the UI it provides is intended 
for manually pushing changes from your development Zope to the remote
Zope. (or vice versa - it supports pull as well as push).

But maybe you could achieve more automation and finer control with a bit
of scripting.  You can also call arbitrary methods on the remote server
using a couple of new methods of the ZSyncer API (callRemote,
callManyRemote); this can be useful if you need to e.g. programatically
tweak some properties or security settings.

If you can't install ZSyncer on the remote Zope, you can transfer
objects the "old" way:  using Export / Import from the ZMI.
But even there, you need *some* kind of remote access in order to put
the .zexp file in the import/ directory of your Zope installation.

-- 

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http://www.slinkp.com
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Re: [Zope] Applying updates to zope site

2006-01-09 Thread Brian Sullivan 
On 1/9/06, Paul Winkler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> OK. You might try ZSyncer (zsyncer.sf.net).
>
> But you will need *some* kind of remote access to install it in the
> Products directory.
>
> ZSyncer won't do "packaging" for you; the UI it provides is intended
> for manually pushing changes from your development Zope to the remote
> Zope. (or vice versa - it supports pull as well as push).
>
> But maybe you could achieve more automation and finer control with a bit
> of scripting.  You can also call arbitrary methods on the remote server
> using a couple of new methods of the ZSyncer API (callRemote,
> callManyRemote); this can be useful if you need to e.g. programatically
> tweak some properties or security settings.


I considered Zsyncher a while ago -- the problem there though is that
there are many things in the two sites that should not be synched --
it seemed more of a synch everything kind of tool. Maybe I should look
at it again. That would be a long term project though.

>
> If you can't install ZSyncer on the remote Zope, you can transfer
> objects the "old" way:  using Export / Import from the ZMI.
> But even there, you need *some* kind of remote access in order to put
> the .zexp file in the import/ directory of your Zope installation.


I can have a person at the remote site perform tasks -- the person
there is a competent systems person(though not fluent in Zope) -- in
fact that is what I am trying to do. I am not intending to eliminate
intervention completely at the site, just limit the number of steps
and potential errors/miscommunications.

Import/export via zexp doesn't really solve the problem of updating a
smattering of files over the ZODB, unless I am missing something about
using it. It might even introduce more issues than it solves.
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Re: [Zope] Applying updates to zope site

2006-01-09 Thread Paul Winkler 
On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 12:24:57PM -0500, Brian Sullivan wrote:
> I considered Zsyncher a while ago -- the problem there though is that
> there are many things in the two sites that should not be synched --
> it seemed more of a synch everything kind of tool. Maybe I should look
> at it again. That would be a long term project though.

Sure.
ZSyncer only syncs what you tell it to sync.
One wrinkle is that if you want to sync only some contents
of a folder that does not exist yet on the remote side.
In that case you need to arrange to create the folder remotely
first.  ZSyncer doesn't handle that automatically, but the
callRemote() method may help if you want to script that kind
of feature for your application.
 
> Import/export via zexp doesn't really solve the problem of updating a
> smattering of files over the ZODB, unless I am missing something about
> using it. It might even introduce more issues than it solves.

Yeah, you'd still need to arrange to export / import the particular
objects (not really "files") you're interested in.

If they're scattered all over, as it sounds like,
you're not going to find a ready-made solution. 
Only you know which objects you're interested in.
That's why I suggested that you may end up scripting something.

-- 

Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
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Re: [Zope] Applying updates to zope site

2006-01-09 Thread Brian Sullivan 
On 1/9/06, Paul Winkler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 12:24:57PM -0500, Brian Sullivan wrote:
> > I considered Zsyncher a while ago -- the problem there though is that
> > there are many things in the two sites that should not be synched --
> > it seemed more of a synch everything kind of tool. Maybe I should look
> > at it again. That would be a long term project though.
>
> Sure.
> ZSyncer only syncs what you tell it to sync.
> One wrinkle is that if you want to sync only some contents
> of a folder that does not exist yet on the remote side.
> In that case you need to arrange to create the folder remotely
> first.  ZSyncer doesn't handle that automatically, but the
> callRemote() method may help if you want to script that kind
> of feature for your application.


As I recall the reason why I stopped looking at it earlier was that it
only did push type synching (and as I am outside the firewall it
didn't really solve my problem). I get the impression that now will
allow a pull synching  as well so that I can from inside the firewall
synch to a site outside the firewall?


>
> > Import/export via zexp doesn't really solve the problem of updating a
> > smattering of files over the ZODB, unless I am missing something about
> > using it. It might even introduce more issues than it solves.
>
> Yeah, you'd still need to arrange to export / import the particular
> objects (not really "files") you're interested in.

Yes -- objects -- just have a hard time sometimes mentally changing
from paradigm to paradigm.

>
> If they're scattered all over, as it sounds like,
> you're not going to find a ready-made solution.
> Only you know which objects you're interested in.
> That's why I suggested that you may end up scripting something.


Yes they are scattered around.

What I would like to do is send a file (zexp like?) that just had the
various required  bits in it with an implied hierarchy and have the
import take care of the distribution to match the files/hierarchy. I
guess nothing like that exists?
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Re: [Zope] Going to 3.0

2006-01-09 Thread Fernando Lujan 
2006/1/9, Andreas Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I already install Zope 3.1.0 and try to copy the Data.fs.
> >From where to where?

>From /home/zope/zope2.0/var/Data.fs to /home/zope/zope3.0/var/



> >But it
> > produces a lot of erros. How can I handle this?
>
> Which errors?

Hi Andreas,

Thanks for the reply. :)

This behavior is intriguer since we only use DTML with logic and
stuff... Nothing special as our own products etc... We sure have some
products, but it should not crash the main system.

Oh, and now I tried now Zope 3.2.0.

2006-01-09T17:15:19 WARNING ZODB.FileStorage Ignoring index for
/home/flujan/tmp/zinstance/var/Data.fs
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "./runzope", line 48, in ?
   run()
 File "./runzope", line 44, in run
   main(["-C", CONFIG_FILE] + sys.argv[1:])
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/app/twisted/main.py",
line 74, in main
   service = setup(load_options(args))
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/app/twisted/main.py",
line 143, in setup
   notify(zope.app.appsetup.interfaces.DatabaseOpened(db))
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/event/__init__.py",
line 23, in notify
   subscriber(event)
 File 
"/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/app/event/dispatching.py",
line 66, in dispatch
   for ignored in subscribers(event, None):
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/component/__init__.py",
line 181, in subscribers
   return sitemanager.subscribers(objects, interface)
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/component/site.py",
line 89, in subscribers
   return self.adapters.subscribers(required, provided)
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/interface/adapter.py",
line 481, in subscribers
   subscribers = [subscription(*objects)
 File 
"/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/app/appsetup/bootstrap.py",
line 135, in bootStrapSubscriber
   db, connection, root, root_folder = getInformationFromEvent(event)
 File 
"/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/app/appsetup/bootstrap.py",
line 120, in getInformationFromEvent
   root_folder = root.get(ZopePublication.root_name, None)
AttributeError: 'PersistentMapping' object has no attribute 'get'
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Re: [Zope] Going to 3.0

2006-01-09 Thread Fernando Lujan 
2006/1/9, Fernando Lujan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 2006/1/9, Andreas Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> > Which errors?

Hi Andreas,

Thanks for the reply. :)

This behavior is intriguer since we only use DTML with logic and
stuff... Nothing special as our own products etc... We sure have some
products, but it should not crash the main system.

Oh, and now I tried now Zope 3.2.0.

2006-01-09T17:15:19 WARNING ZODB.FileStorage Ignoring index for
/home/flujan/tmp/zinstance/var/Data.fs
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "./runzope", line 48, in ?
   run()
 File "./runzope", line 44, in run
   main(["-C", CONFIG_FILE] + sys.argv[1:])
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/app/twisted/main.py",
line 74, in main
   service = setup(load_options(args))
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/app/twisted/main.py",
line 143, in setup
   notify(zope.app.appsetup.interfaces.DatabaseOpened(db))
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/event/__init__.py",
line 23, in notify
   subscriber(event)
 File 
"/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/app/event/dispatching.py",
line 66, in dispatch
   for ignored in subscribers(event, None):
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/component/__init__.py",
line 181, in subscribers
   return sitemanager.subscribers(objects, interface)
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/component/site.py",
line 89, in subscribers
   return self.adapters.subscribers(required, provided)
 File "/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/interface/adapter.py",
line 481, in subscribers
   subscribers = [subscription(*objects)
 File 
"/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/app/appsetup/bootstrap.py",
line 135, in bootStrapSubscriber
   db, connection, root, root_folder = getInformationFromEvent(event)
 File 
"/home/flujan/tmp/zope/zope3.2.0/lib/python/zope/app/appsetup/bootstrap.py",
line 120, in getInformationFromEvent
   root_folder = root.get(ZopePublication.root_name, None)
AttributeError: 'PersistentMapping' object has no attribute 'get'
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Re: [Zope] Strange ZEO related Tracebacks.

2006-01-09 Thread Dieter Maurer 
robert rottermann wrote at 2006-1-9 05:45 +0100:
>Some customer of ours created got after doing some edition in plone the 
>following trace backs
>which I have no clue what could be the reason.
>Only a restart of Zeo/Zope did fix it.
>
>We are using Zope 2.8.5 on linux
>
>What could be the reason for this?

Looks like a bug in ZEO ClientCache handling.

File a bug report.

-- 
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Re: [Zope] Zope 2.8.5 install

2006-01-09 Thread Rakotomandimby Mihamina 
> FWIW, I don't know why Zope doesn't display anything useful in the
> console anymore, and I don't even know whether that's unique to
> Windows.

Standard output is not a debug/error output.
"runzope" both in Windows or Linux gives what you need.
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Re: [Zope] installing zope in a "web" hosted environment

2006-01-09 Thread Gabriel Genellina 

At Sunday 8/1/2006 11:47, Daniel Gross wrote:

Thank you for your reply. Actually, i first installed and configured 
plone/zope on a local server at home. Due to problems with dynamic ip 
mapping i decided to move it to a hosted environment. It appears however 
that unfortunately i can't do it, unless i get a dedicated server, which 
is way too expensive for my resources and needs ...


Another option would be to keep it on your local server at home and setup a 
dynamic dns name (try http://www.yi.org/ or many others)



Gabriel Genellina
Softlab SRL 


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[Zope] Help me!

2006-01-09 Thread Bruno Grampa 

Hello,
i'm building a site to sell images (this is the concept, the reality is
different...).
All the images are in a directory mapped through LocalFS product.
For every image i have a record in a SQL table with all the basic
informations: author, name of the file, cost.

What i haven't understood is how to block users from getting images if
they have not enough credit to buy them.
I need to control the view method, but i don't know if this idea is the
right one or there are better solutions.

Any hints?

Thanks,
   Bruno


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Re: [Zope] Help me!

2006-01-09 Thread David H 

Bruno Grampa wrote:


Hello,
i'm building a site to sell images (this is the concept, the reality is
different...).
All the images are in a directory mapped through LocalFS product.
For every image i have a record in a SQL table with all the basic
informations: author, name of the file, cost.

What i haven't understood is how to block users from getting images if
they have not enough credit to buy them.
I need to control the view method, but i don't know if this idea is the
right one or there are better solutions.

Any hints?

Thanks,
   Bruno





Bruno,

Maybe you can better explain your question. Im not at all sure the 
following will help:


Seems like you can check a users credit at login, store the credit score 
in SESSION and use that for branching logic.  You could also update the 
creditScore as it changes.


Then you can develope your pages with stuff like this:  (syntax not checked)

in TAL

This link only shows up if session's 
'hasCredit' is true.


In DTML




In Python: (and TAL macros)

  if context.REQUEST.SESSION['hasCredit']:
return container.Images.macros['allImages']  
  else
return container.Images.macros['someImages']  


David





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Re: [Zope] Help me!

2006-01-09 Thread Andreas Jung 



--On 9. Januar 2006 16:04:28 -0800 David H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Maybe you can better explain your question.


...especially with such a sense-free subject as "Help me".

-aj

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[Zope] CPU architecture and Zope

2006-01-09 Thread David H 

Hi list,

Im just wondering what the wisdom is about Zope performance and various 
CPU types.  I'm running Zope on Linux (Ubuntu). I notice that Dell is 
selling  a "dual-core" Pentium unit.  But I have no idea if something 
like "dual core"  is advantegous to Zope, python execution or one's 
favorite RDMS.



Thanks,
David

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Re: [Zope] CPU architecture and Zope

2006-01-09 Thread Andreas Jung 



--On 9. Januar 2006 21:38:15 -0800 David H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hi list,

Im just wondering what the wisdom is about Zope performance and various
CPU types.  I'm running Zope on Linux (Ubuntu). I notice that Dell is
selling  a "dual-core" Pentium unit.  But I have no idea if something
like "dual core"  is advantegous to Zope, python execution or one's
favorite RDMS.




A single Python process also a multi-threaded Python application can never 
run on multiple CPUs. Multiple CPUs, cores etc. together with Python make 
only sense when you run multiple Python processes e.g. multiple ZEO clients 
or ZEO client + ZEO server. For standalone Zope instance dual-core  CPU 
give you nothing.


-aj


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[Zope] [ANN] TextIndexNG 3.1.4 released

2006-01-09 Thread Andreas Jung 


I am pleased to announce the release of TextIndexNG V 3.1.4.

TextIndexNG V 3 is a complete new implementation based on Zope 3 
technologies and can be used both in Zope 2.8 or in Zope 3.


What's new?

- multi-field indexing and query support

- multi-lingual support

- configurable converters (through ZCML)

- new indexing API (allowing you to hook your custom content types with
  TextIndexNG through Zope 3 adapters).


Changes in V 3.1.4:

- fixed RTF converter

- fixed HTML converter

- improved ATFile adapter


Requirements:

 - Zope 2.8+, Zope 3.1+


Download:

 http://sf.net/projects/textindexng

Project page:

 http://opensource.zopyx.biz/OpenSource/TextIndexNG3


For installation and documentation issues refer to doc/README.txt from the 
archive. It's basically the same procedure as with former versions except 
you *need* to recompile the extension modules. Windows binaries of the 
required extension modules are currently not available (any volunteers?).


TextIndexNG V 3 is published under the ZPL.


Andreas Jung

   ---
  -   Andreas JungZOPYX Software Development and Consulting -
 -   E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Web: www.zopyx.com   -
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