Re: [Zope-CMF] Accessing PageMacros
Heya Charlie, The way I do this is register a view for * with the name I'm using for the macro: browser:page for=* name=foo permission=zope2.View template=../path/to/my_template.pt / Then in in the template: metal:foo use-macro=here/@@foo/macro_to_use Not sure if that's the SOP or what...but works for me. Cheers, Andrew On 3/11/10 7:12 AM, Charlie Clark char...@begeistert.org wrote: Hi, I think I'm probably making this more complicated than it need be but I'm stumped. I have a form that uses five.formlib.formbase.PageForm, ie. the default zope.formlib PageForm. How can I make use of the macros in the template, ie. what is the lookup for the macros? @@form_macros only seems to have widget_macros and addform and I'd like the whole page and just make use of the slots. metal fill-slot=extra_info... Zope 3 skin declarations aren't my strong suit and I think they just wrap the meta-class stuff which has my head spinning. Charlie -- Charlie Clark Helmholtzstr. 20 Düsseldorf D- 40215 Tel: +49-211-938-5360 GSM: +49-178-782-6226 ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope-cmf/ for bug reports and feature requests ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope-cmf/ for bug reports and feature requests
Re: [Zope-dev] Defining Zope 3.
+1 with Tres' position. On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn Faassen wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote: Simon Michael wrote: -1, Gary's is clearer. I think what is clear or not is very subjective. I think that at least is clear. I think it is clear that you are disregarding many people's opinions. Okay, I'll come back with a bit more rational response than my first one. Could you also tell me how I'm disregarding people's opinions in this thread? Examples? Or do you think stating my own opinions and concerns, while I'm clearly (explicitly mentioned) thinking this topic through, is tantamount to disregarding other people's opinions? Do you really think I'm in this discussion with people just to disregard their opinions? I'm trying to consider the impact of changing a well-known well-used name that carries certain expectations (different ones for different people!) to something else that was set up explicitly to have different expectations, namely the Zope Toolkit. The Zope Toolkit concept was explicitly designed to *separate* those expectations from the (vague but broad) expectations surrounding Zope 3. I spent quite a bit of time trying to work that out. Now we're a few weeks later. It is proposed instead we rename what we called Zope 3 to Zope Toolkit and tell everybody that the expectations changed. I've expressed clearly that's an interesting approach and also clearly that I have some concerns. I am -1 on pushing a Zope3 is now the Zope Toolkit message: I would rather that we *not bring up Zope3 in public again*, while still enabling those who have built apps atop the un-brand to maintain them. If somebody asks, Hey, what happened to Zope3?, we can explain briefly that the core of it is now ZTK, and that the other bits have a life of their own, but *without the un-brand*. To this end, I think we sholud remove all traces of the un-brand from prominent places on our websites, try to stay on message as a community, while re-focusing on the technical aspects of the transition (rather than the branding / perception ones). Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJ6LKE+gerLs4ltQ4RAkfIAKC/s1iE3sE3+fag5Tvrat6X/uM9XACfTctf EvnsuRnMvhmvoeh7JJ8L/fI= =iKI4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [ZWeb] svn server broken
If you blocked it at the load balancer or router, that would help in their regard until the issue is fixed Andrew On 11/10/08 2:21 PM, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 10, 2008, at 7:01 AM, Christian Theune wrote: On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 02:40 -0500, David Lawson wrote: Sorry, svn.zope.org experienced a hardware failure earlier in the day which we believed we had remediated, but which has re-surfaced as something more serious. We're working on getting it resolved and should have it back up soon, hopefully before noon EST. I'm with Martijn here. I'm happy you take care of the machine, but noon EST is a full working day in Europe without svn.zope.org. That's a lot of buildout processes hanging. So, please, pretty please, can you make the machine fail gracefully for the outside world and not have dangling connections? Unfortunately we can't. The file system on that machine isn't currently allowing writes. :( Jim -- Jim Fulton Zope Corporation ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Instance problems
Autolance was used to kill (restart) instances which exceeded a certain size No clue how it's setup for the zope.org setup though. Are there memory issues? Did you restart the hung instances? Andrew On 10/1/08 11:57 AM, David Lawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We got a page on cache problems relating to the zope.org site earlier this morning, I spent some time investigating and initially suspected a badly behaved spider from 61.230.26.210 was just slamming the servers and making them unhappy, so I dropped that IP at the firewall, but the problem has continued for the most part, and I'm not familiar enough with the ZO software to diagnose it further. At the moment, one instance is up and serving relatively well, the other three, everything on app2.zope.org and instance2 on app1.zope.org are hung on connections. I have found this error in the logs a few times, but honestly have no idea what it's refering to: 2008-10-01T06:54:31 PROBLEM(100) AutoLance AutoLance memchecker died Traceback (innermost last): File /home/zope/zope.org/var/app1/Products/AutoLance/__init__.py, line 269, in run File /home/zope/zope.org/var/app1/Products/AutoLance/linuxproc.py, line 190, in self_statm File /home/zope/zope.org/var/app1/Products/AutoLance/linuxproc.py, line 253, in get_dict TypeError: unsubscriptable object Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, if there's anything we can do, let us know, I'll probably be unavailable, but Jim knows where to find a Zope Corp SA. --Dave Systems Administrator Zope Corp. 540-361-1722 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: zope.org - serious caching issues
On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 10:09 -0400, Jim Fulton wrote: I'm adding zope-web to the CC list. I wish you hadn't done that yet. If we keep changing things. it will be hard to figure this out. It would be helpful to show the results of, say wget -S, as in: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/tmp$ wget -S http://www.zope.org/news.rss --09:58:05-- http://www.zope.org/news.rss = `news.rss' Resolving www.zope.org... 63.240.213.171 Connecting to www.zope.org|63.240.213.171|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... HTTP/1.0 200 OK Server: Zope/(unreleased version, python 2.2.3, linux2) ZServer/1.1b1 Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 13:57:28 GMT Content-Length: 4011 Content-Type: text/xml Age: 4 X-Cache: HIT from parent-ng2.zmh.zope.net X-Cache: MISS from cache2.zmh.zope.net Connection: close Length: 4,011 (3.9K) [text/xml] 100%[] 4,011 --.--K/s 09:58:05 (365.80 KB/s) - `news.rss' saved [4011/4011] [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/tmp$ wget --user jim --password xx -S http:// www.zope.org/news.rss --10:00:45-- http://www.zope.org/news.rss = `news.rss.1' Resolving www.zope.org... 63.240.213.171 Connecting to www.zope.org|63.240.213.171|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... HTTP/1.0 200 OK Server: Zope/(unreleased version, python 2.2.3, linux2) ZServer/1.1b1 Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 13:45:20 GMT Content-Length: 4011 Content-Type: text/xml X-Cache: HIT from parent-ng2.zmh.zope.net Age: 892 X-Cache: HIT from cache4.zmh.zope.net Connection: close Length: 4,011 (3.9K) [text/xml] 100%[] 4,011 --.--K/s 10:00:45 (1.85 MB/s) - `news.rss.1' saved [4011/4011] It looks to me like the cache tier has been changed; IIRC zope.org was not in the cache tier I setup for Managed Hostingand didn't have (at least) 4 cache servers in it's request flow. Note that the second request is authenticated (except with a different password :) That won't make any difference...they both resulted in a cache hit. The first time, you hit a front side cache server that didn't have it cached: cache2, the second time, you hit a cache server that did have it cached: cache4. ... The objects do not display any caching policy in ZMI, but the cache manager still shows the enties in different variations. What cache manager? Possibly because it doesn't know about the change. It looks like in issue in Zope. How so? If you look at the wget output above, there don't seem to be any cache headers set. So, data would not be cached unless there is an overriding policy in squid. If the cache tier was changed and relying on the (old) default settings, then it's going to cache for a certain period of time. If you see both te child and the parent MISS, then what you're getting is coming from the app server. Yup. I'm getting a hit from the parent. Also note that both hits have me results for which the most recent entry is from March 29. If I bust the cache with a query string, the most recent entry is for May 15. That would also explain differences based on roles. There is nothing in squid that distinguishes if a user is authenticated, anonymous or manager. I don't follow this, what explains the difference; there should be no difference based on roles. I *think* Andrew Sawyers did something to arrange that non-anonymous users get non-cached results. This doesn't seem to be working any more. This is bad. I'm hoping that however got this working properly at some point can tell us what they did. :) It's been a long time, but IIRC we got rid of all caching for zope.org where a cache header wasn't explicitly being set. Jim Was the cache servers changed around? IIRC the zope.org tier only had 2 measly cachesand if they changed, I bet the rules where not changed along with the cache servers. Andrew ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: zope.org - serious caching issues
On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 16:42 -0400, David Lawson wrote: It has, but mostly only in layout and some streamlining of the configuration. The basic rules you established are still in place, since we assumed you had good reasons for them. I haven't been following this discussion terribly closely, but I'll take a closer look at things this evening. Well, trying to figure out what's changed...that would be the first thing I'd check; just verify that the rules are indeed hitting the requests. How long has this problem been evident? When did the changes take place? I presume awhile ago? Andrew ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] wiki.zope.org is still unreachable
I had to start the wiki instance by hand - as well as the foundation instance. If it's there, it's not working properly. I haven't checked. Andrew On 5/10/07 7:06 PM, Simon Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wiki.zope.org's zope server, at least, should have those startup scripts already. Pretty sure I saw it start up after the last server outage. ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] wiki.zope.org is still unreachable
The last word I got was last night, there was a power supply failure at Amaze's data center. I would presume this would be a power supply failure in the server which hosts these sites. No further word. I personally don't have contact with Amaze, not any idea how to contact them. Andrew On 5/10/07 1:05 AM, Baiju M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon Michael wrote: Unfortunately, wiki.zope.org has been unreachable for more than 24 hours now. What is the status now ? Regards, Baiju M ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] wiki.zope.org is still unreachable
I think that's a generous offer - Thanks Chris. The server is now back online. I've restarted both the foundation site and wiki site. I'll add start up scripts for this to init.d in the near future today/tomorrow - so that when the server restarts we don't have to manually restart out software. Andrew On 5/10/07 5:17 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew Sawyers wrote: The last word I got was last night, there was a power supply failure at Amaze's data center. I would presume this would be a power supply failure in the server which hosts these sites. No further word. I personally don't have contact with Amaze, not any idea how to contact them. Well, I'll make the offer again, I have a server in a rackspace datacenter in the states that is currently doing nothing but backup mx. It has 1TB month bandwidth, scsi raided disks and is monitored 24/7/365. cheers, Chris ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Uploading the Installer for Windows
Toc, toc. Is there anybody home? I'll test it for you alsolet you know how it goes. Andrew Sawyers On 2/23/07, Sidnei da Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone volunteered to test and upload the Zope Installer for Windows when one was ready. I believe Chris Withers was the vict..^H^H volunteer. There's an installer ready for testing over here: http://files.enfoldsystems.com/Zope-2.10.2-Final-6947.exe Thanks! -- Sidnei da Silva Enfold Systemshttp://enfoldsystems.com Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214 -- Sidnei da Silva Enfold Systemshttp://enfoldsystems.com Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [ZWeb] zope.org frontpage modifications
Any reason why we don't want to just do a permanent redirect from old wikis to new wikis? Andrew On 10/26/06 4:18 AM, Michael Haubenwallner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for the records, a few changes have been made recently: zope.org frontpage - left column replaced 'Zope Exits' with 'Zope Sites', now links to http://zopewiki.org/Sites (anyone can add links and reorganize) - center column: added the first paragraph from MembersFAQ to fill the space betweem 'Zope for...' and the Zope/Plone training announcements - right column: added a 'Planets' section on top of the sidebar featuring planet.zope.org and planet.plone.org - any other planets to include there ? changed the number of NewsItems in the 'News' section from 7 to 5 zope.org/Wikis - each ZWikiPage under that folder now has a message describing its 'read-only' state and the move to the new location at http://wiki.zope.org/... - the message is inserted into the 'header/portal_message' macro called by main_template Michael ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
[ZWeb] Possible Cache Problem?
Intermittently going to the following URL returns a failed conneciton error: http://zope.org/Collectors/Zope/1425 Since we have no insight into the caches - not sure whom to inform. The following error was encountered: * Connection Failed The system returned: (111) Connection refused The remote host or network may be down. Please try the request again. Your cache administrator is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Generated Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:25:52 GMT by parent-ng1.zmh.zope.net (squid/2.5.STABLE12) Andrew Sawyers ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Skinning the new zope 3 wiki
On 10/16/06 9:35 AM, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/16/06, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're definitely right on that, I just wanted to bring it up so we don't have a lot of people starting to complain *after* the redesign work for other microsites has been done. Yes, good point! Besides, if we choose a different design for zope.org it might be a bit confusing when you jump to a wiki site with a different design - unless that doesn't matter. Well, I think this design is born from the design originally made for zope.org, no? So hopefully we can use something similar for all the sites. ___ You are right Lennart - I think Jens is a little confused. :) A ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Foundation Site
I don't see a rightcolumn class in Foundation stuffmaybe missing the obvious though. A On 10/16/06 6:47 AM, Tom Von Lahndorff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That should do it. For the Foundation website though it should be on the .rightcolumn class. On Oct 16, 2006, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Teague wrote: I think I figured out an easy fix for the watermark bug. In the .content declaration of the CSS add: right: 0px; This should pin the right side of the content box to the edge of the browser window and the watermark lines up :) I've only tested this on FF and Safari on Mac, but it should work in IE6, that's a pretty stable, bug free browser ... - Kevin On Oct 15, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Michael Bernstein wrote: On Sat, 2006-10-14 at 11:12 -0700, Michael Bernstein wrote: Minor consistency nit: Something seems to be changing the width of the 'columntwo' div in all the pages under 'Membership'. This is causing the grey Z-ball watermark to shift left by various amounts for these pages, instead of lining up with the to header watermark. Typo, sorry: top header watermark. - Michael Bernstein ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Foundation Site
All kinds of weird behavior with that under Firefox on my Mac.
Paste me the entire class definition for .columntwo
Andrew
On 10/16/06 2:51 PM, Darryl Cousins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, 2006-10-16 at 15:25 -0400, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
I don't see a rightcolumn class in Foundation stuffmaybe missing the
obvious though.
A
Hi Andrew,
This works for me (Firefox 1.5.0.4 - haven't tested IE, but should be
ok):
Replace:
.columntwo {
display: block;
position: absolute;
top: 0px;
left: 150px;
...
With:
.columntwo {
display: block;
position: absolute;
top: 0px;
right: 0px; /* changed from left */
margin-left: 150px; /* added */
...
Regards,
Darryl
___
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Re: [ZWeb] Foundation Site
On 10/14/06 1:36 AM, Darryl Cousins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And docutils needs to be updated on the server (cheers Baiju and Andreas) and that there is a typo (cheers Carlos). Is the full code up on svn.zope.org? It doesn't appear to be at http://svn.zope.org/web/zf/trunk/. I have recently acquired commit privileges and could attend to the menu and to the typo. Andrew - can you fix docutils? And will you you remain responsible for updating rest files on the server (ssh/svn update)? Can I volunteer? Regards, Darryl I don't think docutils needs to be updated - it could, but I grabbed the latest version when I set all this up last week. None of the changes I've made are back into svn - the account we're using doesn't have write access. Yes, you can volunteer Andrew ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Foundation Site
On 10/14/06 3:00 AM, Baiju M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/14/06, Darryl Cousins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is the full code up on svn.zope.org? It doesn't appear to be at http://svn.zope.org/web/zf/trunk/. I have recently acquired commit privileges and could attend to the menu and to the typo. Since you got commit privilege, you can commit it. I think we can put those programs/scripts here: svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/web/scripts (This directory is not created yet) Martijn, is it OK? Andrew - can you fix docutils? And will you you remain responsible for updating rest files on the server (ssh/svn update)? Can I volunteer? What about setting up a cronjob for updating (once in a day) ? Regards, Baiju M Those scripts need to be in the server root (i.e. The root of the svn check we use for the 'content' files). There's no reason to have to move them around to work as they do currently: they are located in the site root. They are not in svn yet... Andrew ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Apache config for lists.zope.org/mail.zope.org fubar?
Not exactly. An Apache directive fubar doesn't cause spam making it through mailman. Andrew On 10/13/06 4:15 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yep :-) Chris Lennart Regebro wrote: Does this have anything with the sudden onsplurt of spam via Zope mailing lists? ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Zone Edit nameserver Offerings FYI
$10.95 a year, for ea. additional one you want Andrew On 10/13/06 12:09 PM, Christian Theune [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what's the price tag on the deal? Andrew Sawyers wrote: Zone Edit offers DNS services on different continents for a small fee. We can easily support our requirements with little effort from these folks: ZoneEdit's basic service offers a pair of DNS servers with 24x7 monitoring and recovery on each server. Each server is located on a distinct and separately maintained network with a 99.9% uptime. With DNS, if any one server goes down, the other servers are used. Therefore, each nameserver you add to your domain greatly reduces the odds of an outage. For your most important domains, we highly reccomend using 3 or 4 DNS servers. We have never had a 3 server outage. We offer a 100% uptime guarantee for domains with four ZoneEdit nameservers. If you are already a ZoneEdit customer, you can log in, click on your most important domain, click Advanced, click Nameservers, and click Purchase an Extra Backup Nameserver. You can then choose the country and location of the new nameserver. If you are not using ZoneEdit's DNS, you can sign up to use our secondary DNS service. Our servers will be automatically synchronized with your primary servers, and are added to your domain as DNS backups. We offer up to 8 managed DNS networks in the US, Canada, Europe, and Australia. For your most important domains, use ZoneEdit's backup DNS. ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] DNS still fishy?
FYI, there's a problem with your host Justizin: server ns1.zoneedit.com Default server: ns1.zoneedit.com Address: 207.234.248.200#53 cvs.zope.org Server: ns1.zoneedit.com Address:207.234.248.200#53 Name: cvs.zope.org Address: 63.240.213.173 server ns.qutang.net Default server: ns.qutang.net Address: 70.84.6.50#53 cvs.zope.org Server: ns.qutang.net Address:70.84.6.50#53 Name: cvs.zope.org Address: 63.240.213.171 In my opinion, the registrar should only have zoneedit.com servers in it for the time being. Andrew On 10/12/06 11:02 AM, Justizin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/12/06, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a couple of notes here. Although zoneedit has been running fine for me for years without a single problem, obviously it would be nice with some backup. Preferably something with another ISP and located on like another continent or something. Two of these backups would be even better. But honestly, compare the likelyhood that all three of these would fail at one time, together with the increasing likelyhood than one server of them is misconfigured and starts disturbing the usage for a minor part of the users, then we will quickly realize that the more backups and failsafes we have the larger the likelyhood that something of this will go wrong. the worst that happens is that some changes fail to propogate. changes to DNS should always be approached with the assumption that this will happen. What's worse is for there to be no copy of a zone available. It should never be necessary for an A record to change immediately, because this cannot be relied upon. The best defense to this is, however, to set TTLs at 300s, or 5 minutes, about a week in advance. 8 servers seems to be to be a complete overkill, and it will only cause problems. I will change my mind on this the time all zone-edit servers stop working at the same time as two of the backups fail. It could cause problems, and that's why we aren't really using eight servers right now, but it should not cause problems. It is a challenge, also, that our DNS is not hosted in the same location as the website. So, it's possible that DNS will be unreachable when an outage occurs, i.e. a fibre being cut in the middle of the ocean, and this outage may not actually affect our site. I bet ten bucks if we rely entirely on zoneedit's nameservers that this will happen once for at least twelve hours for some significant region of the world within the next year. Don't overcomplicate things. It just makes them fail. This assumption really has nothing to do with what happened this week. What happened this week was either: (a) a typo (b) an erroneously truncated string If there were only two nameservers, they would have pointed at the wrong IP, and the site would have been perceptually unavailable for a few hours to two days for various people. If there were eight, the same would happen, for about the same time frame. So, if you want to only use two nameservers, that's okay with me. Remember to wake me up when the zone is unreachable for someone and we want to run more. :) I always assume, if anything, that some machines, network connections, disk drives, etc.. will invariably fail, and that you can never have too many if they are available. I like the idea of a group of zope community members collectively providing DNS service. Maybe we should even talk about running multiple copies of the flat content in different places. If my site goes down, esp if one of my machines fail, I much prefer to feel comfortable that I can reach zope.org than rely on the possibility that i might have copies of recent releases in another location. if i'm going to keep copies of the releases around for myself, might as well mirror them, eh? While having a set of servers configured by various people sounds as if it would be overcomplicated, with proper planning and coordination, we should be able to keep it simple. When making changes to DNS, always assume that for 48 hours there will be between a 90-10 and 10-90 split between people who have your new records and people who have old records. When changing nameservers, double or triple this, because some people will have cached records from the old nameserver *and* more recently cached NS records, so they may continue querying the old nameserver until the cached NS record itself expires. When something critical like svn/cvs or the main website need to be changed, again, it is necessary to drop the TTL, on the entire zone, even, to something really short like 300s about a week in advance. This ensures that everyone in the world has a copy of the zone which says: no copy of this zone and no records in this zone are good for longer than five minutes.. Just before a switch is made, you can proxy the old front-end apache server to the new host explicitly, and then
Re: [ZWeb] DNS still fishy?
Can we have only zoneedit as the registered nameservers? 3 out of the 5 listed name servers at the registrar are wrong. We need this fixed ASAP. Andrew ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: Zope.org DNS ( was Re: [ZWeb] http://namespaces.zope.org/zope )
You didn't cc tres - but I'm sitting next to him, and informed him *we* volunteered cabana if we want it.Tres actually doesn't use cabana as a nameserver - mainly me (unless the other guys have changed how the have their domains setup). A On 9/27/06 3:52 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Justizin wrote: I haven't even got my responder up yet, to be honest. I'll be moving my domains to zoneedit at the same time as zope.org. I assume one of these is yours, and one of them jens' ? cabana.palladion.com 69.44.155.17 That'll be Tres (cc'ed in 'cos I don't know if he's on this list) ns1.dataflake.org 8.7.96.28 That'll be Jens. cheers, Chris ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] http://namespaces.zope.org/zope
On 9/27/06 11:57 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Justizin wrote: Perhaps I am making a wild and sweeping assumption here, but I think that Chris is talking about the DNS servers which are controlled by software the team I worked on at Rackspace was responsible for, and look like ns.rackspace.com. ;) Yep, so you're responsible for that crappy ui? Dotster's wins for ease of use so far... So, I'm actually curious if they have implemented a feature which was not high priority when I worked there, and that is the ability to configure their nameservers as slaves. Don't think so, it's just that I can host dns there for stuff that isn't hosted on their servers. I'd hope their nameservers are also pretty robust? Tom - do you know if Rackspace's nameservers are capable of serving up a slave copy of a zone which is managed at ZoneEdit.com? When I wrote that email, I was actually proposing hosting the masters there. I don't mind being DNS boy for zope.org and I'd hope rackspace's nameservers would scale to the challenge... This is why I proposed using zoneedit We'd like to de-centralize the zope.org zone so that no one individual or organization such as Zope Corp are responsible for / in control of it. If I ever did stop doing Zope stuff (hahahaha) then I'd happilly hand the records on to someone else. Easily done at zoneedit (change pasword) and no pain in migrating. Bad idead IMNSHO putting this into a single persons control. If I dropped dead (or got taken out by that hitman Jens keeps on promising), the DNS could similarly be moved elsewhere... No need to be moved if it's on zoneedit. I presume one of our volunteers is a Rackspace customer, and is thus offering to host our domain as part of their account. That'd be me ;-) cheers, Chris This solution is already started, lets just put it to bed? Andrew ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] http://namespaces.zope.org/zope
On 9/27/06 12:10 PM, Justizin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/27/06, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Justizin wrote: When I left, I believe NS and NS2 were both load balanced clusters of three large machines, which probably sit behind PrevenTier, a patented DoS-aversion system, now. They may also have moved onto geographic load balancing. I wouldn't really know. Tom - do you know if Rackspace's nameservers are capable of serving up a slave copy of a zone which is managed at ZoneEdit.com? When I wrote that email, I was actually proposing hosting the masters there. I don't mind being DNS boy for zope.org and I'd hope rackspace's nameservers would scale to the challenge... If you want to do that, I don't object to losing Czar status. ;) I am concerned that we can't easily allow a team of people who aren't on your private customer account access to do this. I'm already concerned that with my ZoneEdit account I can't give anyone else access, and was going to propose opening a Zope Foundation account which several people could have access to. This is the key to using something like zoneedit - so you can share it. That said, concern raised, what do Martijin and others think? If you made a 'personal' account and are then putting zope.org into that - don't do that. Make a 'shared' account just for zope.org We could still slave to Rack's nameservers. Don't we have enough slave volunteers right now? Andrew ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: Zope.org DNS ( was Re: [ZWeb] http://namespaces.zope.org/zope )
On 9/26/06 11:10 AM, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 26 Sep 2006, at 17:02, Andrew Sawyers wrote: We can use someone like zoneedit.com for the primary, and then have a bunch of secondaries.I'm sure there's lots of us who could do secondary dns for this. I've used zoneedit for several years now - flawlessly. First 5 domains are free - so that shouldn't be a problem. Hey Andrew, learn bottom-posting please! I haven't worked with zoneedit, but would volunteer a secondary DNS setup on one of my boxes. DNS changes should be very tightly regulated and the group of people who can make them should be very small since DNS is a very important wheel in the machinery which can break all other services if not handled correctly. I don't think it is important to have some newbie- friendly tool. jens This has nothing to do with a newbie friendly tool - but a third party to be the primary, so that a single person isn't the 'owner' of this - so those with appropriate access can manage this. I'm sure all of us on the list understand the importance of DNS and it's reliability. Since it's free and been around for years, I thought it was worthy of looking at for the group. Andrew ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs
Read what I wrote. :) A On 9/25/06 8:38 AM, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 25 Sep 2006, at 14:31, Andrew Sawyers wrote: If it is simply taking what's running and set it up on a new set of servers, it would be fairly trivial. There's 1 or 2 zeo client servers. There's a storage server. There's cvs/svn and mail and ldap lives some where in that mix. :) That's about it. That's not trivial by any stretch of the imagination... If you wanted to rebuild that whole infrastructure you're be siting there a couple days I'd think. I don't know if there are (working) automated buildouts, if there aren't then the only way to get a working ZEO client quickly would be to copy a complete instance, file by file, from the old system and then recompile anything that is compiled. jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFF83RRAx5nvEhZLIRAr7wAJwKiGSOWlKzTVp6ZbNfp16I0yGftQCeNBW9 81QmOI3B5/1CIYaK56YaW1w= =MVJU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs
There's a lot more to it then LDAP. LDAP doesn't make it hard, it just makes it harder. The goal (or lack thereof) will make it hard or trivial. Regardless, I didn't say rebuilding everything from scratch and sorting out the 'mess'. I said if it's just resetting up on a different group of servers. Regardless, it's always subjective - and it's not that hard. :) A On 9/25/06 9:56 AM, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/25/06, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read what you wrote and I do not think it is trivial. I agree. I'd guess that for somebody that knows the LDAP software better than me, it might take a day or two. That's not trivial. It's also not hard. I'd call it ehm, Not too hard. :-) ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs
On 9/25/06 10:04 AM, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/25/06, Andrew Sawyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a lot more to it then LDAP. LDAP doesn't make it hard For me it does. That's why I said somebody that knows it better than me. :-) Regardless, it's always subjective - and it's not that hard. :) Not that hard sounds like a reasonable compromise. :-) Now, when we agree that this is not that hard do we think we should do it? Not sure, what's the goal? :) The reason it should be done, would be to improve the underlying hardware. The other reason would be so that the community can manage all aspects of it's setup. If it's still like it was, then parts of the architecture are not going to be accessible by anyone in the community. If I were doing it, I would put as little effort into the existing setup as possible and all effort into where it's going. Personally, I don't care where www.zope.org is currently located, and I also think we should replace it part by part with microsites, like wiki.zope.org, bugs.zope.org, news.zope.org, products.zope.org and so on, until www.zope.org gets useless, and we can move it to old.zope.org and replace it with a new snazzy front-page, linking to all the other sites. That's easily done with rewrite rules at the cache. Andrew ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs
We just need to resurface the svn location of the doc and update if necessary. A On 9/25/06 11:18 AM, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: Andrew Sawyers wrote: This is all documented in subversion IIRC. Jim will know. We need to make sure there are people in the foundation (besides Jim and ZC) who know. I'll ask Jim. Actually strike out 'foundation' and read 'community' in the line above. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig
What's up with zopefoundation.org - especially since it's changed since I looked at it yesterday? :P) A On 8/22/06 1:43 PM, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there, It's nearing september, and I'd like to start some work on zope.org, in particular www.zope.org/foundation. I'm looking for volunteers to help. As you all probably know, we have a Zope Foundation, of which I'm a board member (representative for the committer members). Aroldo Souza-Leite is also on the board as chairman. Aroldo and I are the board members responsible for the zope.org website committee. The task of the zope.org committee is to improve the zope.org web presence. Aroldo and I won't be doing the work or decision making alone, but since we have the backing of the foundation, we can make decisions stick. Volunteers are welcome to join this committee! One of the first tasks at hand is to improve the presence of the Zope Foundation on the web. We currently have a section here: http://www.zope.org/foundation This website doesn't look very pretty at all. My proposal is to reorganize it, have some introductory text, put in links to relevant information resources, such as mailing lists (including this one), and to stick a nice layout around it. This project will serve two purposes: * to create a nice website for the foundation. * serve as an example and test case for the wider zope.org renewal project. So, please help us out. Layout -- I propose we use Tom Von Lahndorff's design for the foundation website. For the purposes of the foundation site we should strip it down: * no login necessary * no search (unless we integrate google-based search, perhaps) * possibly no drop-down menus at the top. We could simply have links there, or possibly a standard left-hand side navigation. This design is the top page; we need to see a sub-page design as well. Tom, are you still there? This time we're going to use what you made quickly, if you're willing! Structure and text -- Aroldo and I (Aroldo, I'm volunteering you :) are willing to work on a bunch of restructured text documents that introduce the zope foundation and set up the site structure. Technology -- I've said this before, and I'll just repeat it again: let's try to avoid technology discussions as much as we can. Most of us, including myself, are techies, so it's attractive to do this, but we just want to put a website up. This doesn't require any new technology, nor does it require a heavy-duty CMS. To break my own rule on no technology discussions right way: I propose letting www.zope.org/foundation point to a Apache directory, where we maintain HTML files. We will then generate such HTML files from restructured text we maintain in the zope SVN repository, using a simple script that drives docutils. If you want examples of websites that are managed this way and I have personal experience with, check out the following places on codespeak: http://codespeak.net/z3/ http://codespeak.net/lxml/ Since we're not aiming for a big site, this should be sufficient technology. For the larger zope.org, we may need something else, or we may not. Let's treat the foundation website as a trial case here too, and see how we like it. There's one alternative to this approach that will also work on the short term: a volunteer that's willing to work with zope.org and integrate the layout and text and structure we want into existing zope.org infrastructure. If someone volunteers to work on this, I'd be happy to do it that way as well. Does anyone volunteer? Any other technological approaches require more setup and I'd like to defer them for the time being. We can take them up when we tackle zope.org proper. I hope we can all have this together in a couple of weeks, so let's start working! Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 09:50 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: On 6/27/06, John Schinnerer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a basic principle of design that works (as opposed to design that fails to work). Start small and work the edges outwards. The work edges outwards that works is often modular in nature (perhaps a.k.a. 'micro-sites'). That doesn't mean it can't look-and-feel like one big site as access point. Biting off more than one (person, organization, whatever) can chew usually results in choking... Exactly my points. So I actually see a lot of agreement in what may appear to be argument. Well, the proposal is to start only with the accesspoint (and the origonal proposal did not contain anything else than the access point, and also proposed it to be interim, for some reason). This is not true Lennart. I'm not going to keep arguing with you; but I think it was clear from what I originally sent this is not as you describe it. Of course, I wrote it - and maybe I'm thinking more to myself about what I mean then saying it. We can't start with only the accesspoint, as we would have no product listing and ... I wonder how all the other successful projects out there manage to not have an arbitrary products listing managed in their sites. PHP, JAVA, RoR, Python, ad nauseum. I just don't see how it's the sole stopping point. Write the 'Zope product' management software and expose it as a service - put it on the site. Nearly everyone uses Google to find anything they care about anyhow. No one said bag the collectors. Rewrite http://www.zope.org/Collectors/ to collectors.zope.org and that's done. no collector other than at old.zope.org, which would be completely bizarre. We have to start, as a minimum, with creating a products.zope.org and a collector.zope.org (or maybe rather bugs.zope.org) before we can replace www.zope.org. None of this is hard to do. It should be doable in a couple of days worth of work, in any case less than a week. Are you volunteering to do those two things in the next week? If so, then maybe we can move forward if the foundation has interest. Andrew ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 08:38 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: OK; I see what you mean now. You ant to create the www.zope.org that works as the main entrance and integratoor of the microsites. The proble is that you wnat to do that BEFORE the microsites exist, which is backwards. I'd beg to differ. A community such as what PHP has built didn't work this way. They managed this very successfully. We have not. I think the problem is you want to wait until the complete city is built before you think you can open select stores for business. So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on approach. Also, you seem to think that the microsites can be run by whoever under whatever domainname. That doesn't work. We can't have our main product site disappear because the guy who managed it got tired or forget to pay his internet provider bill. And it looks bad if the community is a hodgepodge of domains and URLs. Yes, I seem to think this. You seem to think it needs to continue to be centrally managed., which has been a proven failure IMNSHO. If you're concerned about domains are easily managed. It's called a CNAME. You seem to presume the worst case. I'm more of a capitalist in regards to what I'd expect to happen here. Empower the community and acknowledge them, and they will do what is necessary. We've seen the success of a group trying to centrally manage the entire breadth of zope.org. As far as I know, the community has been empowered to do things to improve the state and condition of the zope.org arena for quite a long time. Nothing has happened substantially. What has happened though, is community areas have popped up to fill the failing area on zope.org because it was easier for them and they cared to do something. Promoting this IS the right way, IMNSHO. Rewarding this, is the right way INMNSHO. Wishing it is going to happen out of ether is questionable, just because the foundation is now formed. I'd love to be wrong, but unless people had so much contempt for Zope Corp directly that they refused to do anything on these fronts for that reason alone, I don't see how this situation magically changes. Prove me wrong. I say that you repost this proposal when we have some community sites to integrate. :-) I appreciate you saying that - but again, I beg to differ. What you propose is to continue to have the current status quo. I and others are proposing to force the move. Guess I could wait to move into my new house because the carpets and hardwood floors aren't laid yet - or I could move in and make due. I prefer the later. I think we have the community sites. We have docs on plope.com (but I'd prefer those to actually live on zope.org). We have zopelabs.com, we have zwikis.org IIRC, there is a great site D2M has been doing work on, and there are several others which have great content. None of which push their content back to zope.org - but can, and can be used to fulfill our immediate needs. The only community site which is yet to step up is a product site. No one is saying bag products on zope.org the day after. Do something - there's plenty who have and are waiting to do more. Don't squash that. Andrew ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 21:41 +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote: Then I fear few interesting content will arrive at this site. Well, I think the content of this site is what I'd noted is what I noted in earlier emails. It might not be 'interesting', but I would hope it to be quality and focused. I have faith the 'interesting' aspects you wish will come from the community. We use Plone.org's infrastructure. When I remember right, we have membership there and this membership contributes a good deal of valuable content (software, howtos, faqs). We have failed at managing the breadth of content and properly presenting it to potential and exisitng Zope users. Maybe that sub-community has not. Why should it be different for Zope.org? Because it has not shown it can rise to the occasion. Outside our community this might not be so obvious, but referring new co-workers to zope.org when they inquire as to the technology I bring to the table at work, is an embarrassment. I think my position is pretty clear. It's up to the Foundation ultimately. I was asked to get the proposal out. I've provided my view. The rest will become history. :) Andrew ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
On Sat, 2006-06-24 at 20:13 +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote: Andrew Sawyers wrote at 2006-6-23 18:15 -0400: ... For bug tracking, either links to the existing ZC trackers or a Trac installation. If you move to Trac *PLEASE* migrate the current issues. It is very discouraging to loose all the bug reports and patches (as happened when a former collector site crashed). Of course, if that were to happen, there would have to be a migration. Agreed. ... Content --- * The existing concept of membership for uploading bit-rot content will be retired. This means what? There would be VERY limited things an individual could upload. I personally argued strongly for 0 membership on this site. If the ideas of micro sites went forward, the appropriate micro sites could allow (or not) membership as necessary. Some of the current content might not be very valuable but there are also great pieces of software! Devil's in the details. I would presume all software could be retained in some manner forever. ?? I'd personally like to see a community member step up and write a kick ass Zope software site - dedicated to community software packages. If that didn't happen, maybe we can migrate software packages to sourceforge if the 'owners' are MIA? * Existing community content on zope.org will NOT be migrated. The content will be made available on ZC's existing server via URL rewriting (to keep existing links from breaking) or by moving everything to an old.zope.org domain. The best content will be migrated by hand to PloneHelpCenter / PloneSoftwareCenter products. Who will decides which content is worth migration? For the site I refer to, only that which meets the scope of the site. Again, I'd love to see community members step up for the areas which are necessary for supporting things which Lennart refers to. I personally don't think those sites need to be official Zope (Foundation). I think Zope Labs is an excellent site which fills some of this niche. A Zope Foundation site should not compete where the community excells already in my opinion. I don't disagree with Lennart, just possibly who 'runs' it. Andrew ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
On Sat, 2006-06-24 at 10:58 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: We have already made a new www.zope.org once. That was an ambitious project, which potential did not become fully realized. We need to take with us the experiences of that. Trust me, many of us do. Jens and I spent many many hours on the predecessor to www.zope.org which got canned. Thus, I think it's imperative to limit the scope and focus of www.zope.org to that which I noted. Superior documentation, Product releases from svn.zope.org and Marketing. And this is mainly: 1. We do NOT want a new www.zope.org. Oh, you may not be 'WE' do. Some of us make up the 'WE'. We want it. No need to argue this point. We want MANY new something.zope.org. We should have a products.zope.org, and a collector.zope.org, and a faq.zope.org, and a wiki.zope.org, and blablabla. I agree, to some degree - where we may disagree is who 'manages' and runs them. I would like to see the community step up and create those sites as it interests them. www.zope.org would be an hyping site, where we hype zope, and referr people to the other microsites. -- Community Sites I agree - just change from microsite to 'communuty supported site' and I wouldn't find any reason to argue this personally. :) I'm very much less concerned about what software we actually have. It's a minor issue in this, although of course, not writing software from scratch unless you have too seems to be a good idea. The important thing is that we do not try to build a big monolithic site that does everything again, because then this will for the third time stall and slowly die. Agreed, thus note the focus and scope items of the proposal - they are key to the success IMNSHO. * zope.org will have a paid sysadmin. Bas van der Linden of Amaze has volunteered the services of Wichert Akkerman, the very talented sysadmin who currently administers plone.org. Well, this is of course completely up to the foundation board. It's probably a good idea, it's just a matter of judging the benefit and the cost. ;-) This paid sysadmin has been volunteered already and is being paid for by Ras van der Linden - suppose if the foundation doesn't want to accept that gracious offer, they could decline his offer. * Volunteers from the Zope community will be responsible for the site's content. The current mock-up uses a skin designed by Tom Von Lahndorff. I imagine that the initial text and information architecture will come from the svn repository of content that Andrew Sawyers and others have been working on. See http://new.zope.nl for an initial a mock-up. The existing concept of membership for uploading bit-rot content will be retired. No I don't follow you. Surely product information and news will be uploaded and created by members? And surely that means some of it sooner or later will rot? I'd like to see some other site write this software and feed it to www.zope.org via rss or some Ajax implementation the designers come up with. The limited content placed directly on zope.org should be that noted herein and other emails IMNSHO. * Existing community content on zope.org will NOT be migrated. The content will be made available on ZC's existing server via URL rewriting (to keep existing links from breaking) or by moving everything to an old.zope.org domain. The old site can be moved to a old.zope.org as soon as there is a products.zope.org and collector.zope org and news.zope.org up. The best content will be migrated by hand to PloneHelpCenter / PloneSoftwareCenter products. I see no reason why product developers can't be held responsible for migrating their own products. Products that then are not migrated can be seen as abandoned and will go away when old.zope.org goes away. The can - to that site the community steps up with or to sourceforge. No need for it to be on the www.zope.org. I of course prefer it if someone in the community did it, so they could feed data to zope.org for display. It's about integration in my opinion - not about consolidation. * The zope.org site should acknowledge contributors in a overt fashion. Zope Rock Stars who have risen up above the call of duty, contributors, etc should be noted. The Foundation can determine how to implement this, but those paying for and providing services should receive acknowledgment. Yeah, good idea! A must in my opinion. Andrew ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
Sorry for the cross-post; lets but wanted to make sure those on the zope-web list saw this. Lets keep this on the zope list going forward. For sometime, we have tried to coordinate various numbers of people in the community to get an improved Zope.org up and functional. Some of this improvement was through the 'visual' look and feel of the site and the other was by cleaning up what has been often thought as unmaintainable code as well as reducing the content scope of Zope.org. During this time, it was largely agreed that the zope.org site would highlight ZOPE the technology, Documentation, the products found in the Zope Code Repository, and highlight the community, to offload features which people had previously relied on zope.org for in the past. The current zope.org site would remain available for some time while a (tedious) and manual migration of content deemed beneficial would be placed on the new site. To the best of my knowledge, this is still agreed on by all those who over the months participated in countless #zope-web irc chats and discussions on the mailing lists. It then came to technology. Some cared some didn't. I personally didn't if the result was something which the community could be proud of and not make excuses for as they directed people to the site. This caused some stalling of the momentum. We had many ideas, some text which is in svn at codespeak, and artisitic work being done. Geoff Davis contacted me with a proposal which would get this move started and has offered resources to accomplish this to finally happen. They currently have taken the artistic work done by Tom Von Lahndorff and put it online at http://new.zope.nl for preview. I'd like to forward Geoff's proposal to the list, now that the Zope Foundation is setup to act on this generous offer by members of the community. I'd like to see this get blessed so we can move forward and finally get a site which has a focused scope and is something the community can be proud of. I have done some minor editorial changes to reflect discussions back and forth since the initial offering. A group of people in the (Plone) community have volunteered their time and resources to put together an improved, **interim** zope.org site. We understand that work is underway on a longer-term zope.org solution -- the current initiative is not intended to replace this longer-term work; rather, the goal is to improve upon the existing zope.org site until something better is put together. I am appending a sketch of the vision and would like very much to hear your feedback. Geoff Maintenance and Administration -- A number of people have expressed concerns about the maintenance of zope.org going forward. We share those concerns! A central goal in setting this site up is to make maintenance as painless as possible. Toward that end, we envision doing the following: * The zope.org site will be set up with the same software that runs plone.org. The sites will have different skins, of course, and will be configured a bit differently, but the underlying software will be the same. * The products on the site will all be off-the-shelf products that have an active community of developers. The current likely candidates: PlonePAS + LDAP for site management authentication, PloneHelpCenter for documentation, and PloneSoftwareCenter for software distribution. For bug tracking, either links to the existing ZC trackers or a Trac installation. * plone.org and zope.org software updates will be done at the same time and by the same people. The more similar the code/products are, the simpler it will be to update them in parallel. The Plone community will manage upgrades of the off-the- shelf code. However, if people decide to customize the code on the zope.org site, those people will then be responsible for ensuring its continued functionality during upgrades. This should be discouraged without valid requirements someone is willing to 'pay' for, either with $ or labor. * zope.org will have a paid sysadmin. Bas van der Linden of Amaze has volunteered the services of Wichert Akkerman, the very talented sysadmin who currently administers plone.org. * zope.org will be hosted outside of ZC's servers. I believe Bas has lined up a suitable box similar to the one that runs plone.org (dual P4-class processors, lots of memory). Content --- * Volunteers from the Zope community will be responsible for the site's content. The current mock-up uses a skin designed by Tom Von Lahndorff. I imagine that the initial text and information architecture will come from the svn repository of content that Andrew Sawyers and others have been working on. See http://new.zope.nl for an initial a mock-up. The existing concept of membership for uploading bit-rot content will be retired. * Existing community content on zope.org will NOT be migrated
Re: [Zope] Some installation glitches
Andrew Sawyers wrote: I'm running Suse 10 - and I've got both /usr/lib and /usr/lib64 I don't believe that dependency has anything to do with Zope. If I take the zope distribution tarball and do the configure, make, make install dance, I get a 'lib64' directory inside the Zope installation instead of a 'lib' directory. mkzopeinstance has trouble with that configuration. It needs a 'lib' directory instead of a 'lib64' directory, so mkzopeinstance fails unless I do something, like symlinking lib64 to lib. We run our own scripts to build out instancesthat's likely the difference. IIRC though, I did stumble across something like this awhile back. Andrew -Jim Washington ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Some installation glitches
I've not experienced any build problems running on 64bit machines. I've got a 64bit laptop and 64bit dev desktop machine, not to mention all our production servers are 64bit as well. Andrew Sawyers --On 16. April 2006 09:07:28 +0200 Jerry Westrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 16 April 2006 08:27, Andreas Jung wrote: --On 15. April 2006 20:42:11 -0700 Dennis Allison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I install Zope 2.9.0 on a 64 bit machine the path to the system is .../Zope/lib64/python/... but with Zope 2.9.2, also on a 64-but machine the path to the system is ...Zope/lib/python/ Why the change? Huh? Never seen that! ...and no idea where this change should come from. -aj I confirm, I also have problems with building zope 2.9.2. on X86... Allison have you got a work around? Scary. Unfortunately I don't have a 64 bit machine to test it on my own. -aj -- ZOPYX Ltd. Co. KG - Charlottenstr. 37/1 - 72070 Tübingen - Germany Web: www.zopyx.com - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Phone +49 - 7071 - 793376 E-Publishing, Python, Zope Plone development, Consulting ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Some installation glitches
I'm running Suse 10 - and I've got both /usr/lib and /usr/lib64 I don't believe that dependency has anything to do with Zope. Andrew Andrew Sawyers wrote: I've not experienced any build problems running on 64bit machines. I've got a 64bit laptop and 64bit dev desktop machine, not to mention all our production servers are 64bit as well. I've seen the same lib/lib64 problem in Gentoo Linux on Zope 3. To work-around the problem, I make a symlink from lib to lib64 after install, and things work OK. -Jim Washington ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Virtual Hosting is confusing
On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 00:14 +0530, Vishal Kashyap wrote: Andreas , What's the problem with using Vhosting as described in the Zope Book. The documentation explains how to solve the problem. If you have a problem, tell us about the problem. I am not able to understand that. In apache what we do is create a document root make sure that apache is listening on the ip on which virtual host is running. In apache I simply do is VirtualHost 19.19.19.0:80 ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED] DocumentRoot /www/docs/dummy-host.example.com ServerName dummy-host.example.com ErrorLog logs/dummy-host.example.com-error_log CustomLog logs/dummy-host.example.com-access_log common /VirtualHost What is equivalent of above in Zope. The equivalent in Zope if you continue using apache would be a VirtualHost with a rewrite. For example: VirtualHost *:80 ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ServerName www.foo.com RewriteEngine On RewriteRule ^(.*) http://127.0.0.1:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/www.foo.com:80/sub_ob/VirtualHostRoot/$1 [L,P] /VirtualHost Where sub_ob is the zope object you wish to map the 'site' to. You could also by pass using apache and just use the VirtualHostMonster Mappings tab: www.foo.com/sub_ob www.bar.com/someother_ob Hope this helps a bit more, Andrew I know its given in Zope book. but could not understand that may be I am to much occupied with apache. -- With Best Regards, Vishal Kashyap. http://www.vishal.net.in ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [ZWeb] V3 Updated
On Mon, 2006-03-27 at 08:26 +0100, Chris Withers wrote: Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: Why should it be on zope.org? Um, because it's useful information about Zope, which is sort of what Zope.org is about? Well, I don't know if that _is_ what zope.org is about anymore. It's been so poor for so long that people have found or created other resources and those aren't going to go away even if zope.org did suddenly become magically better ;-) Zope.org shouldn't have any designs to do such. Good projects which have stepped up should be rewarded and encouraged. The Web Site for the Zope Community (...who are currently discussing Zope at various other places on the web). Thanks for visiting. :) Well, point taken, but I really think zope.org should be a gateway to those existing resources. If, at a later stage, those resources want to migrate back to zope.org, then great, but until then, lets leave them be... I agree, they should be positioned on zope.org as prominent resources. Zope.org should be about what's in svn.zope.org and the technology. Excellent docs, good introductory information (i.e. marketing speak) and downloads for those products in svn.zope.org All, IMNSHO, Andrew cheers, Chris ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [Zope] Re: Give it a rest + answers. (Re: Re: Zope + Apache on Quad Debian machine)
On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 08:24 -0500, Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 WHile at ZC, one of the other engineers and I did some testing on SMB boxes, and found that one appserver per CPU gave us near linear scaling of the application, without any explicit affinity set. I don't have the numbers (we were using stock Dell 1U dual CPU boxes, I think), but the win seemed clear enough that we quit invesigating taskset. The other engineer was me, and it was close enough to double the load per instance, per cpu. If he needs to test it, the numbers are easy to get. Run a single instance on a SMP Server, and hit it with load. You will get Y. Run another instance and spread that load across both instances and you will get nearly 2xY. Take a single cpu server and run 1 instance and load test it, and you'll get Y. Take that same single cpu server and run 2 instance, and load test it across both instances, and you'll get Y. These tests were done on both Linux and FreeBSD and both were approximately the same. The conclusion was, no further complexity is required to get a substantial performance benfit by running SMP Servers with multiple Zeo Clients instances, where the # of CPUS == the # of Zeo Client instances. This has been posted to the lists serveral times BTW. The only snafu is to make sure you have enough RAM to run several zeo client instances. If you've got a 4way server, I'd recommend 16GBs of RAM if it's a big site. I personally like to put as much ram into a server as it can physically handle. Andrew Sawyers Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 202-558-7113 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEIVAK+gerLs4ltQ4RAnb9AKC7qw38+BqNdAbY79bqPR4/G7USCwCbBmit UX+GcftjNQ5fUKajALsEbSk= =+E5c -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [ZWeb] Version 3
On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 08:45 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote: Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: - What about the login + navbars ? Will add login as well. Not sure what you mean about navbars? The navigation is up top, the black bar. Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for 'managing' the site: manager.zope.org or something which adds in an additional skin which includes these macros. Just an idea. I meant the bar holding the object, folder, user, workflow and global actions, currently displayed in a horizontal bar under the header/banner block. You can't use zope.org (plone) without the actions. It should be fairly trivial to work these in - remember, these types of actions are not going to be for the general user populacethus shouldn't be a main focus for his designs INMNSHO. Andrew Michael ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Version 3
On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 21:25 -0600, Brad Allen wrote: http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3 The Zope News and Zope Products section do seem slightly drab. Drab is ok for documention but news stories could use just a little bit of zing. The News and Products sections you see now are not going to be paramount on the page when all is said and done. We're trying to get some good catchy text/phrases going for the home page which draws users into the 'meat' of the site. A smaller presence of the news and products needs to be considered. Andrew ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Version 3
On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 16:09 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote: Understood and ok with me. Its just that we never talked about that solution before (i've always seen the modscape mockups as a drop-in replacement for the current mode of zope.org operation). Forgot to reply all This thought had never occurred to me, thus the divergence. I had always thought developmental work was to move forward the 'new' site - never deal with the current one. It was my opinion it was stay as is. Andrew Michael ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [Zope] Zope Managed Server
Depending on what performance levels you need, I've used these folks in the past and have had excellent service from them: aplus.net (http://servers.aplus.net/valueservers.html) - Their $49.00/mo server was an awesome buy for what I needed - and it's fully dedicated. They have higher end machines as well. You get root, so you can do whatever you wish. Andrew Sawyers On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 22:56 +, michael nt milne wrote: Servelocity at http://www.servelocity.net/ are also very good. You can rent your own dedicated server and install what you want on it. Excellent support and service. On 3/12/06, Allen Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 for Zettai. Have had great success with them. If you need a place to stick a server then I highly recommend bayMountain. Amazing service and support. A great team of open source and Zope experts there. Allen David wrote: J Cameron Cooper wrote: Dan Gaibel wrote: Hello Folks, I'm interested in finding a company that will do monthly managed zope hosting. We're looking for a dedicated machine. I know that Zope Corp does this and it is quite expensive. I wonder if anyone has had any experiences with such a service. Any advice is highly appreciated, and I apologize if this list is an inappropriate venue to pose such a question. There are a number of these companies around. iMeme and Zettai come to mind. I'm sure there are more nowadays. --jcc Dan, I use Zettai. Can't complain at all. Even though I use virtual host plan (I share a server with about 8(?) others) the performance is better than I feared might be the case. The best of all worlds is to at least co-host your server. But thats more over-head for the developer. Zettai support is excellent. (although they do get cranky if you lean too much on them). I just checked out the iMeme site - and they may be pretty good ( jcc wouldn't recommend them otherwise) but their presentation is gawd-awful and not confidence inspiring. David ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- michael ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [ZWeb] no discussions about technology on this list right now
On Mon, 2006-03-06 at 16:21 +0100, Lennart Regebro wrote: On 3/6/06, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's currently not OK, super! So lets go. :-) There is loads of content there already, I don't think we need more to get started. It's already much better than what is a zope.org now. What do we do next? Come into #zope-web if you wish to participate. Andrew -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Zope 2 web site
On Mon, 2006-03-06 at 07:06 -0800, Martin Aspeli wrote: Andrew Sawyers wrote: In the future, zope.org (will) migrate easily. Before I left ZC, I went into the plone channel asking for assistance, and when it was learned the version of Plone we were on, there was little encouragement for any sensible migration. That said, it doesn't matter today. Today zope.org sucks and we're working to fix that. Which version was it, do you remember? zope.org shouldn't have membership - people should not be able to dump crap on it which can easily bit-rot. That said, there should be a site for people to use as a sandbox or playground, but where the 'front site' for the technology comes in, it should be limited in scope to promoting the software, providing excellent docs, software (zope.org CVS only) and promoting the Zope Vision. Anything that does not directly contribute to this is not necessary and should go. Probably sensible. That said, we've had a lot of success on plone.org by letting people have accounts (but no member folder) so that they can contribute products (plone.org/products) and documentation (plone.org/documentation), that goes through a light review cycle before being published. The Plone products that drive this also help maintain that documentation e.g. by letting us mark things as outdated, by marking things for different audiences/sections etc. I don't think the bar should be high to contribute, but and I presume my goal would be met by not allowing members folders. Early on, my goal was to reduce kruft and bit-rot content which people could throw on and abandon. Andrew Martin -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Zope-2-web-site-t1182227.html#a3263175 Sent from the Zope - web forum at Nabble.com. ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Zope 2 web site
On Mon, 2006-03-06 at 12:26 -0300, Sidnei da Silva wrote: On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 06:30:29AM -0800, Martin Aspeli wrote: | Not sure what this means ... were you involved in building the current site | or do you know its architecture? As I've said, my comments are based on what | I've been told by people who were involved in the original decision to use | Plone (pre 1.0 as I understand, with heavy internal customisations). My | feeling is exactly that there's no *need* for zope.org customisations that | would make it hard to maintain/migrate in the same way plone.org is | maintained and migrated right now. I made the original decision and I've put together the migration and all that, alone. Then I've left the project just before launch. I'm pretty sure it was Plone 1.0 or a 1.0 rc. Some customizations seem to have been made since then, but nothing serious. The only serious thing which I found daunting the last time I was trying to debug a problem with the software product was the HUGE number of customized skins. With no clue why, and the amount of effort to sort through them all, It left me with a lot of contempt for whomever did it and didn't fix them in CVS. Andrew ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Zope 2 web site
Geoff, Daily several of us (Michael, Martijn F, Phillip V, and a couple others) utilize #zope-web to try and further work that has been going on for awhile to get a suitable zope.org rolled out and upgraded that the community can be proud of. There are people working on docs, marketing data, newsletters, layout/design upgrades and more. Please participate in the existing drive, not start a new one. :) I'd love to see ya drop by. There's no secret that the current site needs fixing; lets pool the collective interest and get it finished up. Andrew Sawyers On Fri, 2006-02-24 at 12:09 -0500, Geoff Davis wrote: Hi all-- I think the idea of a Zope 3 web site rewrite is a great one. However, since Zope 2 is going to continue to be around for awhile, I am wondering if we might be able to shore up the Zope 2 resources in a reasonable way? Migrating all the community content sounds like a herculean task; I'm talking about doing something with rather narrower scope. Here is what I propose: * Create a new zope.org (or zope2.org) for Zope 2 that is focused on 2 things: 1) Distribution of Zope 2 and related add-ons 2) Documentation * Maintain all the old community content in the current instance and bind the two together using URL rewriting. The Plone community has developed a couple of products for distributing software (PloneSoftwareCenter) and for maintaining documentation (PloneHelpCenter). You can see these in action at http://plone.org/products and http://plone.org/documentation , respectively. I know that zope.org gets a lot of traffic; we also have a product for making Plone play nicely with Squid. I think that people in the Plone community would be willing to help out with getting such a site set up. The bigger task would be moving community content to the new setup. Is there any interest? Geoff ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Two visions
On Mon, 2006-02-27 at 10:37 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote: I'd like to get feedback on two possible visions for the future of Zope 2 and Zope 3. 1) Our current vision (AFAIK) is that Zope 3 will eventually replace Zope 2 - There will be lots of overlap between the Zope 2 and Zope 3 lifetimes. (Zope 2 might be supported more or less forever.) - Eventually, the gap between Zope 2 and will become very small. requiring a small leap. In this vision, Zope 3 would have to become a lot more like Zope 2, or we would lose features. -1 2) In an alternate vision, Zope 2 evolves to Zope 5. - Zope 5 will be the application server generally known as Zope. It will be backward compatible (to the same degree that Zope 2 releases are currently backward compatible with previous Zope 2 releases) with Zope 2. Zope 5 will similarly be backward compatible with Zope 3 applications built on top of the current Zope 3 application server. Note that Zope 5 will leverage Zope 3 technologies to allow a variety of configurations, including a Zope 2-like configuration with implicit acquisition and through-the-web development, and a Zope 3-like configuration that looks a lot like the current Zope 3 application server. Maybe, there will be a configuration that allows Zope 2 and Zope 3 applications to be combined to a significant degree. - Zope 3 will explode. :) For many people, Zope 3 is first a collection of technologies that can be assembled into a variety of different applications. It is second a Zope 2-like application server. I think that these folks aren't really interested in the (Zope 2-like) application server. Zope 3 will continue as a project (or projects) for creating and refining these technologies. (It would probably make sense for this activity to to have some name other than Zope. On some level, the logical name would be Z (pronounced Zed :). An argument against Z is that it would be hard to google for, but Google handles such queries quite well and I'd expect that we'd move to the top of Google Z search results fairly quickly. However, I'll leave naming decisions to experts. ;) Advantages of this vision: - Zope 2 users don't need to leave Zope 2. - Zope 3 doesn't have to reproduce all Zope 2 features. - There wouldn't be confusion about 2 Zopes. It is important that Zope 5 be backward compatible with both Zope 2 and Zope 3, although not necessarily in the same configuration. Many people are building Zope 3 applications today and they should not be penalized. Thoughts? +2 I personally think that one of the great things about what has come out of Zope 3 development: other projects can use the technologies without taking Zope 3 lock stock and barrel. I'd hate to see Zope 3 get more girth and loose future traction because it had to be fully backwards compatible with Zope 2. For those who wish to slowly migrate to using Zope 3 technologies without completely rewriting their software, evolving via Five is a fair approach. To quote a blog I'd read earlier today: Doing little things well is a step towards doing big things better. Allowing others to assist in refining the little technologies which make up Zope 3 can achieve this goal. I would fear this would be impossible if the first vision was followed. Andrew Sawyers Jim ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Squid ESI
Yes it works; we have some stuff working here at my place of employment. I had some problems getting the right squid build to work last year when looking at this for a customer, but since the team here has had no problems that I'm aware of with current builds. Andrew On Thu, 2006-01-26 at 19:44 +, Chris Withers wrote: Alan Milligan wrote: We haven't had any problems in building Squid-3.x images ...with ESI enabled? I've also heard of at least one other abandoned Squid3 rollout, and it's quite possible that without Robert's participation, Squid3 isn't really production strength. Yup, that and Squid 3's not production quality status makes the whole Squid/ESI thing a total non-starter, which is a shame... ...but I do wish, as a result, that people would stop touting it as a way to scale Zope apps. cheers, Chris ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope vs Plone: performance issues!
standard products that probably will not help you. I'm not a speed guru, but load balancing with ZEO would probably be the easiest way of improving the performance in this case. That's my guess. If he's got a dual cpu'd machine and is running two zeo instances, he's fine unless he's got a ram problem. To be running 2 zeo instances on the same machine, they have to be doing some type of load balancing or faking load balancing so that ea. zeo client can respond to requests. One thing that might help is CRANK up your on disk zeo cache as high as you can afford - it's just disk space. If this hasn't been done, the zeo clients might be spending a lot of time 'requesting' objects from the zeo storage server when you can be caching them on the zeo clients. Some substantial effort would likely be required to optimize the Plone installation. If you choose this route, look at the skins - there's lots, lots of layers, and lots of searches going on you could eliminate or rewrite to be more efficient. If you go down the Zope/MySQL path, this would require some substantial effort also. I would recommend, if you're going to be putting substantial effort into the application, look at a CMF/Five implementation, relying heavily on using the View paradigm Lennart references. Another option, not knowing your technical level, is to implement in Zope 3. I personally am liking Zope 3 alot. IIRC, there is a Zope 3 CMS project out there. Andrew Sawyers ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [ZWeb] Python.org is redesigning
That looks excellent! Andrew On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 00:18 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote: Carlos de la Guardia wrote: Have you seen http://beta.python.org/ yet? I like the using Python for... and written in Python boxes at the right. The design is another thing, but let's not go there now. Great link, i've been waiting for it a long time... Michael ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [Zope] Spam-Bounces
IIRC, all of the zope mailing lists only accept mail from subscribers - so these are likely just someone spoofing the sender address. No reason to try and handle this on the list server side IMNSHO. Andrew On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 12:37 +0100, Tino Wildenhain wrote: Hi, I'm getting bounces of messages sent to zope@zope.org with aparently large binary attachments. Luckily they are too big to get thru automatically. Looks like spammers are around and faking identities. Is it possible to enhance the list software to check gpg keys of posts? Just an idea... ++Tino ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Spam-Bounces
I'm a little confused, if that's the whole point, not sure what the point is. Perhaps I jumped the gun by replying :). I guess I would setup a local procmail rule or posfix rule to not accept mail with these attachments? If the mail is not going through the zope mailservers, I'm not sure how one would logically deal with this spoofing problem? One options is enforcing this with SPF records - we could get Mark to set this up on the zope.org side perhaps? Andrew On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 15:39 +0100, Tino Wildenhain wrote: Andrew Sawyers schrieb: IIRC, all of the zope mailing lists only accept mail from subscribers - so these are likely just someone spoofing the sender address. No reason to try and handle this on the list server side IMNSHO. Of course they are. Thats the whole point :-) On which side do you think it can be handled instead? ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Leave the ivory tower now!
what's needed to spruce up the howtos, or zope.org? iirc, there was a closed group with that mission setup some time back It wasn't really 'closed' - just 'well defined'. It fell apart, due to both of the committed developers backing out due to commitments they couldn't get around. I am still highly interested in helping lead this and actually doing work if we had 1 or 2 others who were committed. We also already have a designer put in some time to assist with a nicer look and feel who is still willing to work on this. The goal was not to just 'spruce' things up, but rather change the focus of the site from everything to just Zope the software, Zope Documentation, and Zope Community. I was just talking about this on Christmas with someone, so there's still hope it will happen. Andrew Sawyers ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Leave the ivory tower now!
On Sun, 2005-12-25 at 10:03 +0800, Bakhtiar A Hamid wrote: The 'closed group' dissolved a while ago. that's sad(?) anything came out of the group? i think we need to do to zope.org what we did to zope2. ignore and build. leave it as old.zope.org and link from the new site. That was the plan. I'd like to revive the plan. :) Volunteers? Andrew ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope-2.9 r40780 make install doesn't finish, files missing from bin
On Wed, 2005-12-21 at 13:47 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote: I'll note, FWIW, that we don't do installs from Zope 3 checkouts. I think it's worth asking whether this is an important requirement. If it is, then we should make it work. Question is, is it worth delaying the release? I don't know. I think it's an important requirement; many of us have done this dance for years. The reason I'd suspect this got done by Chris M was to ease our pains we'd had to work around over time and make it easier for people coming into the Zope Community - or their support staff (i.e. Admins) I can't answer the last question, but it seems to apparent that it's important and expected behavior by lots of people in the community. If we did stay with the current situation, we'd need to cleanup the documentation so that a developer can easily reminder herself what she can do and how to do it. If it's indeed *easy* and clear, that should be ok. It just needs to work sensibly :) So many of us are used to the ./configure; make; make install dance. Jim Andrew ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope-2.9 r40780 make install doesn't finish, files missing from bin
This has been my approach also. Not surprisingly, many of us worked on these processes together and have 'sanitized them' over time. :) There has always been 'another side' who either hasn't liked this procedure or the 'make' voodoo and have come up with their own, or just haven't had to do this at all. Andrew I really think there is not a single good reason for having a different experience for checkouts vs tarballs. It would even lead to major annoyance where I work right now, just to give a real life example. For us, building out a development sandbox is the same process as building out a production instance, and for development buildouts we routinely want to just substitute checkous from a different tag/branch of Zope. jens ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Please vote about conflict errors logging
On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 15:45 +0100, Florent Guillaume wrote: So I propose another little change: have the error_log copy to event.log be the default behaviour. Today the default is off. Florent +1 A ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope] Job Opportunity with Revolution Health Group
I'll keep this short, since I wasn't sure of the list policy regarding these types of posts. Revolution Health Group is seeking python and Zope programmers for several positions. If anyone is interested in exiciting job opportunities with a well funded startup; feel free to email me offlist for more details. General company info can be found at www.recolution.com and Google. Thanks, Andrew Sawyers Revolution Health Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: Job Opportunity with Revolution Health Group
I apologize for this follow-on post, I typo'd the company URL and wanted to clear that up: www.revolution.com No more from me on this. Thanks, Andrew On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 12:11 -0500, Andrew Sawyers wrote: I'll keep this short, since I wasn't sure of the list policy regarding these types of posts. Revolution Health Group is seeking python and Zope programmers for several positions. If anyone is interested in exiciting job opportunities with a well funded startup; feel free to email me offlist for more details. General company info can be found at www.recolution.com and Google. Thanks, Andrew Sawyers Revolution Health Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 23:00 +0100, Florent Guillaume wrote: 1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level: - INFO INFO - BLATHER - DEBUG - not logged - other 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? - Yes, with traceback - No, without traceback No Traceback 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to the event log, and at which level: - ERROR - not logged - other Error (Also, if you feel the logging should be different between 2.8 and 2.9, please say so.) I'll wait until Wednesday morning to collect results. Thanks, Florent Andrew ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source code repository
On 11/24/05 8:54 AM, Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 24, 2005, at 8:37 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote: I recall a slightly different discussion I was involved in. I remember Zope 2 core developers worrying about the inclusion of Five in Zope 2.8; they were worried they'd need to maintain its codebase. I was one of these people. Since then, I've completely changed my mind; it was a pure win. - C As was I. Five has brought me and a few others I know closer to Zope 3. This is a huge win. Many of us have lots of experience to bring to the benefit of the Z3 community. As a result, I am excited to take even more strides to Z3. Phillips goal is a good one. The challenge is if there is resistance, how to smooth the bridge. Rather then Z3 developers shoot it down outright, they should provide reasonable alternatives (other then doomsday scenarios). It is a good thing to bring more developers into the Z3 community, many of us Z2 developers are hungry for this. I don't know the answer for every developer on either side of this argument, but there must be an effective compromise out there. The two groups need to work to come to that solution and not alienate one or the other or blindly shoot it down and hope it will go away. It's unreasonable to do so. Taking my ball and heading homely, Andrew ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1?
We use lots and lots of Centos 4.x servers not a problem there go for it. Andrew Sawyers Zope Corporation Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harald Finns Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:43 PM To: zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1? I'm new to Zope, and I've been playing with 2.8.1, but I really haven't done any real work with it yet. Now I expect to get my new decicated Zope hardware tomorrow, so I have to decide if I should go for 2.8.4 or 3.1.0. Any tips if I should go for the latest and greatest or stick with 2.8? I've also seen comments that running Zope on RHEL/CentOS might not be wise. My test env. is using FC4, but I'm planning to install CenOS 4.2 on the production server. Unwise choice? Regards, Harald ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1?
I meant to send a reply to the list. The gist of my offlist response to Harald was: We use lots and lots of Centos 4.x servers in heavy production with no problems. Go for it. Andrew Sawyers Zope Corporation Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doyon, Jean-Francois Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:40 PM To: 'HaraldFinnås'; zope@zope.org Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1? I'm using Zope 2.7.x on RHEL 3.x without trouble ... Though I should be upgrading to CentOS 4.x fairly soon ... what problems have you heard of? As for Zope, if you're not sure, then you probably want 2.8.x ... 3.1 is stable, but for lower level development ... also depends what features you need ... some CMF things aren't avilable in it yet. J.F. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of HaraldFinnås Sent: October 26, 2005 4:43 PM To: zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1? I'm new to Zope, and I've been playing with 2.8.1, but I really haven't done any real work with it yet. Now I expect to get my new decicated Zope hardware tomorrow, so I have to decide if I should go for 2.8.4 or 3.1.0. Any tips if I should go for the latest and greatest or stick with 2.8? I've also seen comments that running Zope on RHEL/CentOS might not be wise. My test env. is using FC4, but I'm planning to install CenOS 4.2 on the production server. Unwise choice? Regards, Harald ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question
Any load balancer should be able to do this, google for your OS there. The load balancer I use LVS. See http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/ for more details. Andrew Sawyers -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 -Original Message- From: Fernando Lujan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:35 PM To: Andrew Sawyers; zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question On 9/20/05, Andrew Sawyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did some tests a few years back, basically that came out such that you run the number of zope instances as you have CPUs. I was able to get double the performance of a single instance on a dual cpu server when adding a second instance. On a single CPU server, I found that the number of requests the server was able to render was cut by nearly 50% +/- when adding a second instance. My rule for building out ZEO Client servers is: Single CPU - Single Zope instance Multiple Processors - # CPUs == # of Zope instances Hi Andrew, And how can I distribute the load over these Instances, running on the same machine? Thanks in advance. Fernando Lujan ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question
I did some tests a few years back, basically that came out such that you run the number of zope instances as you have CPUs. I was able to get double the performance of a single instance on a dual cpu server when adding a second instance. On a single CPU server, I found that the number of requests the server was able to render was cut by nearly 50% +/- when adding a second instance. My rule for building out ZEO Client servers is: Single CPU - Single Zope instance Multiple Processors - # CPUs == # of Zope instances Make sure you have enough ram if you're running multiple instances. The number of sites you can run from a single instance without cache problems really takes some localized knowledge of how your instances are performing. I run *lots* of sites from a single Zope instance without splitting them off at the load balancer into different mini-pools. I do this because I can, but if I was performance challenged from, say, cache flipping, I would definitely do this. You could likely better off if you ran all of your sites within a single instance (spread across multiple multi-processor machines with enough ram (2 - 4 GBs should do?)). It's a tough question to answer with much precision without intimate knowledge of what you're doing and how your systems are performing. If they're in the same zope instance, managing them as separate entities is difficult. Your application and maintenance of these sites might be the best determination for how you should factor the instances across your hardware. Andrew Sawyers -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J Cameron Cooper Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question mark hellewell wrote: Hi everyone, I've got a question I'd really appreciate some input on. If I'm running perhaps a dozen Zope sites, experiencing anywhere between several hits per second to a lot less, would it potentially be more efficient (decreased latency etc.) to run each site as its own Zope instance or have one Zope instance running muliple (CMF based) sites. I haven't even thought about adding ZEO into the mix yet. The basic aim of the exercise is to find out how many usable zope instances / sites I could get onto a typical mid-range modern server. I know it's a bit of a how long are your pieces of string sort of question, but any help you could offer would be gratefully accepted! If anyway has any experience of this sort of setup and can offer a little insight it might reduce the amount of testing I have to do myself. I don't think you'll see any improvement unless you have a multi-processor machine. In such a case, running X processes (where C is the number of cores) will fully load the machine, since Python threads won't skip processors. On a single-core machine, multiple instances probably will just increase your overhead, especially in memory. But I could be wrong: there's so many variables the best way to know is to test. (Caches and usage patters, for instance, can make a big difference.) If you do have several sites, you could be running into cache eviction issues since there are a lot of objects that need to be accessed. Check your cache fullness and watch your ZODB usage chart for excessive loads. --jcc -- Building Websites with Plone http://plonebook.packtpub.com/ Enfold Systems, LLC http://www.enfoldsystems.com ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems
Sorry, I missed the beginning of this thread, I've got some questions that I didn't see answered or asked: Did Matt indicate if he was running multiple zeo app servers? It might help to be spreading the load. 1, writes a day is not outrageousso it's possible that really what you need to spread the load across a load balanced pool of zeo app servers. How many users are authenticated at any given time actually using the system for writing? Are you running a persistent or non-persistent cache? If so, what size it is? Check the control panel, under database management and choose your database, then look at the activity tab. Do you have a high volume of object loads? What is the volume of object stores? There is also an in-memory zeo object cache - click the cache parameters tab and see the number of objects in your in-memory cache. If your zeo client(s) have lots of ram (they definitely should), you can crank this up as well. What is the 'horespower' of your app server(s)? Andrew -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:19 PM To: Chris McDonough Cc: zope@zope.org Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems Thanks everyone for their suggestions, bought a squid book today and I know what I'll be doing all weekend grin -Original Message- From: Chris McDonough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:13 PM To: Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] Cc: zope@zope.org Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems What you've got now is a pretty reasonable setup. Moving to 2.7.7 will likely not get you any free performance increases and it doesn't appear that there are any critical ZODB bugfixes relating to your problems since 2.7.3. FWIW, also, I'd venture a guess that moving off Data.fs (as you mentioned in your original email) may be quite costly, requiring a lot of application recoding. It also might not help solve the scaling problem you're having. It's a high risk, potentially low reward solution. You need something that is low-risk and potentially high reward, I'd suspect. Others have said this, but it bears repeating. The biggest administrative win you can get for the cheapest cost is to add an HTTP cache (like Squid or even Apache's mod_proxy) in front of your ZEO clients and to cause your Zope application to set the proper response headers which allow the cache server to cache (and thus serve) those pages on subsequent requests. This can be tricky when most of your traffic is authenticated because there is usually very little win and a lot of danger to serving up cached pages when a page in the cache represents a view that a privileged user sees when visiting the site. You typically don't want other people to see the same thing he does. As a result, typically people will say pages that require authentication can't be cached which isn't entirely true (you can cache them but it's often useless). However, even serving up fully static content that doesn't require any authentication like CSS, images, and so on can be a win. You might start there. HTH, - C On Thu, 2005-09-01 at 11:54 -0500, Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] wrote: Zope version 2.7.3 (planning to goto 2.7.7 soon with ZODB 3.2.9) Pyhton is 2.3.4 Apache 1.3 We have 943 users as of this minute with a bout 1000 objects being created a day (Lots of creates) -Original Message- From: Chris McDonough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:51 PM To: Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] Cc: zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems Your tranaaction blocked error messages seem to imply that either or both of the following is true: - some transactions are taking a long time (any more than, say, 200 milliseconds is a long time) - you have a very high transaction volume. That said, these messages are informational rather than signifying an error condition. Some transaction blockage is expected since the ZEO server can only deal with one transaction at a time. What version of Zope are you using? Is this an intranet application? Are there lots of users creating content? Can you venture a guess as to how many users are creating content vs. viewing content at any given time? Are the users that are creating content logged in? The users that are viewing content? On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 11:03 -0500, Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] wrote: Here is our situation, we originally launched zope with a small user base in mind and like most IT implementations it got away from us quickly and we have over 1000 users now. We are experiencing huge slowdowns and lots of complaints of performance. Let me outline our system: I
RE: [Zope] Re: zope.org site and limited search results
I could be wrong, but I don't think zope.org uses ZSql methods for searching.. Andrew -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josef Meile Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:05 AM To: zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] Re: zope.org site and limited search results Hi, few times ago I was few times wrote to ZC webmaster about limited query to Zope Products search results (see attached picture) - in any case it does not find more than 200 results. Nothing to do. If somebody has enough power to initiate zope.org webmaster, please tell him about change number of results from database at advanced tab of appropriate ZSQL method (if it is not defined somewhere else). Note, that old zope site does not has this limit. Then you may try to post a bug in the collector of the zope.org site: http://www.zope.org/Collectors/ZopeOrg Regards, Josef ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] 2 Zope instances on a 2 CPU linux server
Run as many Zope instances as CPUs you have if you wish to take advantage of this in Zope: i.e. 2 CPUs == 2 Zope Instances. You will basically double the performance of the server with ea. CPU/Instance. At some point there might be a diminishing return, but I doubt any of us have that kind of hardware J Andrew -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pascal Peregrina Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:11 AM To: 'zope@zope.org' Subject: [Zope] 2 Zope instances on a 2 CPU linux server Hi, I would like to know what if using taskset (CPU affinity utility on linux) to bind each Zope instance to one single CPU can improve overall performance of both instances in any way ? As far a I know, python can not fully take advantage of 2 CPU cause python threads are not OS threads. Thanks. Pascal ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope-dev] Problems with Zope 2.8 on FreeBSD (was Re: Problems with PageTemplates on Zope 2.8)
Did you bump up the thread stack size for the python you're running Zope with? This sounds like that problem. If you search zope.org for FreeBSD - I have a note on how I fix it. Andrew -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Morten W. Petersen Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 7:37 PM To: Max M Cc: zope-dev@zope.org Subject: [Zope-dev] Problems with Zope 2.8 on FreeBSD (was Re: Problems with PageTemplates on Zope 2.8) I have an application called the Issue Dealer which I'm porting to Zope 2.8. However, whenever I try to access a PageTemplate which makes use of a page template macro it just hangs and consumes all available CPU. Any ideas what could be wrong here, or how I could debug it? Does the server or the client hang? It's the client that's hanging. The first time I tested it, it was as a simple Zope instance. http://instance/manage worked fine, but accessing an Issue Dealer instance (http://instance/stuff) didn't work. Now when I try setting up a ZEO server/client version 2.8 with python 2.3.5 on FreeBSD 5.4, the server hangs even when I try to access http://instance/manage. http://instance/manage_copyright works fine however. -Morten ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] Uploading Windows release 2.8b1
What happened? Too large of a file? I can up it for you otherwise, let me know and I'll check into it. Andrew -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Theune Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:32 AM To: zope-dev@zope.org Subject: [Zope-dev] Uploading Windows release 2.8b1 Hi, the upload didn't work again. If someone could put the file located at http://amy.gocept.com/~ctheune/Zope-2.8.0-b1-win32.exe to the right place? The proxy on Zope.org caught me again. Cheers, Christian -- gocept gmbh co. kg - schalaunische str. 6 - 06366 koethen - germany www.gocept.com - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - phone +49 3496 30 99 112 - fax +49 3496 30 99 118 - zope and plone consulting and development ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] Re: Uploading Windows release 2.8b1
I just bumped this up to 20MBs. Andrew -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 Hi Christian, just tried it and got an error too: 'The request or reply is too large.' (Upload size is more than 15MB) Michael -- http://zope.org/Members/d2m http://planetzope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] June Zope Bug Day: IRC correction
Chris Withers wrote: Chris Withers wrote: Where? #zope-dev on irc.zope.org That should probably be irc.freenode.net. irc.zope.org is just a cname pointing to irc.freenode.net Andrew -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope-dev list policies
Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: +1 for member-only posting On Wed, 2004-06-16 at 22:24, Tim Peters wrote: Over on the zope and zope-dev lists, there's currently agitation to make them members-only mailing lists. The point is that spam could not get thru then (unless posted by a member). What would zodb-dev members like? [...] +1 I propose this policy extends to all ZC managed community lists. Andrew Sawyers -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] test: ignore
test -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope.Com Geeks] Re: [Zope-dev] zope-dev list policies
Ken Manheimer wrote: I noticed this when it went initially went by, but didn't have time to follow up. The upshot is that there is absolutely no way *under the current arrangement* that this is going to happen. I can see a way to swing it, requiring earnest volunteer effort. Here are the details. Being the administrator of many of the zope lists (probably over ten and below twenty), i am already dismayed by the challenge of the typically thirty to one hundred held spam messages, bounces, and other effluvia i have to handle *per day*. I do not know how many of the legitimate list messages would additionally be held and require more attention (with the current mailman implementation, it takes a lot more fuss to approve a held message than to discard it), but the load is already untenable, so one more is too many. Why would we hold non-member postings for review? Why not simply outright reject them? Andrew -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope.Com Geeks] Re: [Zope-dev] zope-dev list policies
Ken Manheimer wrote: What proportion of the list traffic comes from valid members who are posting from alternate accounts? A huge percentage was - I don't know how much is making it through to the lists though. I'm hearing a lot of complaints from people either third party, seeing it in IRC or from emails off the lists. I've recently added an increased amount of header and body checks which were not being applied yesterday as well as increased spam reject features. This should help - in any event now that it's being blocked at the MTA, Mailman's load on the server has went from 2 -3 to ~.5 on the server in the last hour. Andrew On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Andrew Sawyers wrote: Ken Manheimer wrote: I noticed this when it went initially went by, but didn't have time to follow up. The upshot is that there is absolutely no way *under the current arrangement* that this is going to happen. I can see a way to swing it, requiring earnest volunteer effort. Here are the details. Being the administrator of many of the zope lists (probably over ten and below twenty), i am already dismayed by the challenge of the typically thirty to one hundred held spam messages, bounces, and other effluvia i have to handle *per day*. I do not know how many of the legitimate list messages would additionally be held and require more attention (with the current mailman implementation, it takes a lot more fuss to approve a held message than to discard it), but the load is already untenable, so one more is too many. Why would we hold non-member postings for review? Why not simply outright reject them? -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope.Com Geeks] Re: [Zope-dev] zope-dev list policies
Ken Manheimer wrote: On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Andrew Sawyers wrote: Ken Manheimer wrote: What proportion of the list traffic comes from valid members who are posting from alternate accounts? A huge percentage was - I don't know how much is making it through to the lists though. I'm hearing a lot of complaints from people either third party, seeing it in IRC or from emails off the lists. I've recently added an increased amount of header and body checks which were not being applied yesterday as well as increased spam reject features. This should help - in any event now that it's being blocked at the MTA, Mailman's load on the server has went from 2 -3 to ~.5 on the server in the last hour. Andrew Huh? I was specifically talking about the legitimate postings, valid members who are posting from alternate accounts, sounds like you're talking about spam. Yeah, I was. Misunderstood. Others will have to answer this for themselves. I've said my peace - so that's enough for me. Andrew -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zope Lists
The zope.org lists have been migrated to new hardware. The lists and archives are updated as of ~10 minutes prior to the DNS switch; so I expect them to be as current as I could get. I've heard of people getting resubscribed to lists which they had recently unsubscribed from. Since the old system was not being managed by us, I do not have any details as to what/why that might have happened, so if you find youself resubscribed now we appologize. This should not continue to happen and if anyone experiences further problems please let us know ASAP. Thank You, Andrew Sawyers -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] zope.org/cvs.zope.org/svn.zope.org server move
Dear Zope Community Members, Excuse the cross post, but this announcement is important to all. This coming Thursday, 06.17.2004 we will be moving the the zope.org website, cvs and svn services to new hardware at our Northern Va. data center. Effective 5:00pm EST the creation of accounts on the zope.org website and logging in to the zope.org website will be disabled to ensure that up to date data is migrated onto the new servers. We expect this move to take ~1 to 2 hours to complete. The zope.org TTL and secondary refresh times have been updated to 1 hour. The afternoon of the move, these times will be reduced down to 15 minutes in preparation for a smooth DNS change over when the migration is complete. Ken I'm evil, so don't mess with me Manheimer will be handling the CVS/SVN migration and will provide more details on the expected outages early next week. If anyone has questions, feel free to let us know. Thanks, Andrew Sawyers -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope
Jim Fulton wrote: The first question is: Is it a problem to have two packages with names differing only in case? +1 A response with a positive sign (e.g. +1, +0, +2, ...) indicates agreement that this is a probelm. :) Jim Andrew -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Using 2.3.2 for Zope 2.7
I don't know about 'blessing', but I'm using it on a project currently (Python 2.3 and Zope 2.6.2) without glitches. Andrew Toby Dickenson wrote: On Friday 03 October 2003 15:33, Chris McDonough wrote: Jim is keen to get an audit going quickly before a 2.7 final release, and the audit would be performed against Python 2.3.2. Does anyone else have an interest in blessing Zope 2.6.x with Python 2.2/2.3 ? ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
