RE: [Zope] Generating links from a list
One way would be: Andrew -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > John Poltorak > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 2:05 PM > To: zope@zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope] Generating links from a list > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 10:03:08AM -0600, Nikko Wolf wrote: > > John Poltorak wrote: > > > > > My links list consists of simple lines such as > > > > > > org-1,First link > > > org-2,Second Link > > > org-x,Another Link > > > > > > How do I prepend a hardcoded path to org-1 instead of what is getting > > > generated? > > > > > I would like to see the link for org-1 being generated as > > > > > > http://www.mysite.org/links/org-1 > > > > Check the "HREF" attribute of the links in the generated HTML, and see > > what you are getting there; unrooted paths are appended (by the browser, > > not Zope) to the directory component of the source URL. > > > > For example: Second Link > > in a page at: http://mysite.org/links/org-1 > > should equate to: http://mysite.org/links/org-2 > > > > [If you're still having problems, be explicit on the HREF and the URL > > you are seeing.] > > > > > > And have you tried simply replacing "org-1" in the File with > > "http://www.mysite.org/links/org-1"; ? > > Just tried - and that does work, but the actual site will be changing > before long. > > > > Finally -- from the ZPT snippet, it looks like "links" is a File object, > > yet you put it in the URL that you say you wish. It's *sometimes* not a > > problem given Zope's sibling-acquisition when parsing paths, but could > be. > > > That's right 'links' simply contains a list of objects and descriptions as > shown above. When a web page is displayed the objectname is prepended by > the directory component. I assumed that Zope did that, but I guess I was > wrong. > > What I really need is to change this line:- > > tal:attributes="href python:opt[0]" > > to something like:- > > tal:attributes="href '/mysite/links/' python:opt[0] > > but I can't figure out how to prepend python:opt[0] with '/mysite/links/'. > > Any hints? > > > > > > G'Luck > > Nikko > > > > > -- > John > > > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] 2 Zope instances on a 2 CPU linux server
Run as many Zope instances as CPUs you have if you wish to take advantage of this in Zope: i.e. 2 CPUs == 2 Zope Instances. You will basically double the performance of the server with ea. CPU/Instance. At some point there might be a diminishing return, but I doubt any of us have that kind of hardware J Andrew -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pascal Peregrina Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:11 AM To: 'zope@zope.org' Subject: [Zope] 2 Zope instances on a 2 CPU linux server Hi, I would like to know what if using taskset (CPU affinity utility on linux) to bind each Zope instance to one single CPU can improve overall performance of both instances in any way ? As far a I know, python can not fully take advantage of 2 CPU cause python threads are not OS threads. Thanks. Pascal ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Re: zope.org site and limited search results
I could be wrong, but I don't think zope.org uses ZSql methods for searching.. Andrew -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Josef Meile > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:05 AM > To: zope@zope.org > Subject: [Zope] Re: zope.org site and limited search results > > Hi, > > > few times ago I was few times wrote to ZC webmaster about limited query > to > > Zope Products search results (see attached picture) - in any case it > does not > > find more than 200 results. Nothing to do. If somebody has enough power > to > > initiate zope.org webmaster, please tell him about change number of > results > > from database at "advanced" tab of appropriate ZSQL method (if it is not > > defined somewhere else). > > > > Note, that "old" zope site does not has this limit. > Then you may try to post a bug in the collector of the zope.org site: > http://www.zope.org/Collectors/ZopeOrg > > Regards, > Josef > > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems
Sorry, I missed the beginning of this thread, I've got some questions that I didn't see answered or asked: Did Matt indicate if he was running multiple zeo app servers? It might help to be spreading the load. 1, writes a day is not outrageousso it's possible that really what you need to spread the load across a load balanced pool of zeo app servers. How many users are authenticated at any given time actually using the system for writing? Are you running a persistent or non-persistent cache? If so, what size it is? Check the control panel, under database management and choose your database, then look at the activity tab. Do you have a high volume of object loads? What is the volume of object stores? There is also an in-memory zeo object cache - click the cache parameters tab and see the number of objects in your in-memory cache. If your zeo client(s) have lots of ram (they definitely should), you can crank this up as well. What is the 'horespower' of your app server(s)? Andrew -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:19 PM > To: Chris McDonough > Cc: zope@zope.org > Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems > > Thanks everyone for their suggestions, bought a squid book today and I > know what I'll be doing all weekend > > -Original Message- > From: Chris McDonough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:13 PM > To: Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] > Cc: zope@zope.org > Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems > > What you've got now is a pretty reasonable setup. Moving to 2.7.7 will > likely not get you any "free" performance increases and it doesn't > appear that there are any "critical" ZODB bugfixes relating to your > problems since 2.7.3. FWIW, also, I'd venture a guess that moving "off > Data.fs" (as you mentioned in your original email) may be quite costly, > requiring a lot of application recoding. It also might not help solve > the scaling problem you're having. It's a "high risk, potentially low > reward" solution. You need something that is low-risk and potentially > high reward, I'd suspect. > > Others have said this, but it bears repeating. The biggest > "administrative" win you can get for the cheapest cost is to add an HTTP > cache (like Squid or even Apache's mod_proxy) in front of your ZEO > clients and to cause your Zope application to set the proper response > headers which allow the cache server to cache (and thus serve) those > pages on subsequent requests. > > This can be tricky when most of your traffic is authenticated because > there is usually very little win and a lot of danger to serving up > cached pages when a page in the cache represents a view that a > privileged user sees when visiting the site. You typically don't want > other people to see the same thing he does. As a result, typically > people will say "pages that require authentication can't be cached" > which isn't entirely true (you can cache them but it's often useless). > > However, even serving up fully static content that doesn't require any > authentication like CSS, images, and so on can be a win. You might > start there. > > HTH, > > - C > > > On Thu, 2005-09-01 at 11:54 -0500, Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] wrote: > > Zope version 2.7.3 (planning to goto 2.7.7 soon with ZODB 3.2.9) > > Pyhton is 2.3.4 > > Apache 1.3 > > > > We have 943 users as of this minute with a bout 1000 objects being > created a day (Lots of creates) > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Chris McDonough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:51 PM > > To: Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] > > Cc: zope@zope.org > > Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems > > > > Your "tranaaction blocked" error messages seem to imply that either or > > both of the following is true: > > > > - some transactions are taking a "long time" > > (any more than, say, 200 milliseconds is a long time) > > > > - you have a very high transaction volume. > > > > That said, these messages are informational rather than signifying an > > error condition. Some transaction blockage is expected since the ZEO > > server can only deal with one transaction at a time. > > > > What version of Zope are you using? > > > > Is this an "intranet" application? Are there lots of users creating > > content? Can you venture a guess as to how many users are "creating" > > content vs. "viewing" content at any given time? Are the users that are > > creating content logged in? The users that are viewing content? > > > > On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 11:03 -0500, Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] wrote: > > > Here is our situation, we originally launched zope with a small user > > > base in mind and like most IT implementations it got away from us > > > quickly and we
RE: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question
I did some tests a few years back, basically that came out such that you run the number of zope instances as you have CPUs. I was able to get double the performance of a single instance on a dual cpu server when adding a second instance. On a single CPU server, I found that the number of requests the server was able to render was cut by nearly 50% +/- when adding a second instance. My rule for building out ZEO Client servers is: Single CPU - Single Zope instance Multiple Processors - # CPUs == # of Zope instances Make sure you have enough ram if you're running multiple instances. The number of sites you can run from a single instance without cache problems really takes some localized knowledge of how your instances are performing. I run *lots* of sites from a single Zope instance without splitting them off at the load balancer into different mini-pools. I do this because I can, but if I was performance challenged from, say, cache flipping, I would definitely do this. You could likely better off if you ran all of your sites within a single instance (spread across multiple multi-processor machines with enough ram (2 - 4 GBs should do?)). It's a tough question to answer with much precision without intimate knowledge of what you're doing and how your systems are performing. If they're in the same zope instance, managing them as separate entities is difficult. Your application and maintenance of these sites might be the best determination for how you should factor the instances across your hardware. Andrew Sawyers -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J > Cameron Cooper > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:26 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: zope@zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question > > mark hellewell wrote: > > Hi everyone, I've got a question I'd really appreciate some input on. > > > > If I'm running perhaps a dozen Zope sites, experiencing anywhere > > between several hits per second to a lot less, would it potentially > > be more efficient (decreased latency etc.) to run each site as its own > > Zope instance or have one Zope instance running muliple (CMF based) > > sites. > > > > I haven't even thought about adding ZEO into the mix yet. > > > > The basic aim of the exercise is to find out how many usable > > zope instances / sites I could get onto a typical mid-range > > modern server. > > > > I know it's a bit of a "how long are your pieces of string" sort > > of question, but any help you could offer would be gratefully > > accepted! If anyway has any experience of this sort of setup > > and can offer a little insight it might reduce the amount of > > testing I have to do myself. > > I don't think you'll see any improvement unless you have a > multi-processor machine. In such a case, running X processes (where C is > the number of cores) will fully load the machine, since Python threads > won't skip processors. > > On a single-core machine, multiple instances probably will just increase > your overhead, especially in memory. But I could be wrong: there's so > many variables the best way to know is to test. (Caches and usage > patters, for instance, can make a big difference.) > > If you do have several sites, you could be running into cache eviction > issues since there are a lot of objects that need to be accessed. Check > your cache fullness and watch your ZODB usage chart for excessive loads. > > --jcc > -- > "Building Websites with Plone" > http://plonebook.packtpub.com/ > > Enfold Systems, LLC > http://www.enfoldsystems.com > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question
Any load balancer should be able to do this, google for your OS there. The load balancer I use LVS. See http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/ for more details. Andrew Sawyers -- Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer Zope Corporation (540) 361-1700 > -Original Message- > From: Fernando Lujan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:35 PM > To: Andrew Sawyers; zope@zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question > > On 9/20/05, Andrew Sawyers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I did some tests a few years back, basically that came out such that you > run > > the number of zope instances as you have CPUs. I was able to get double > the > > performance of a single instance on a dual cpu server when adding a > second > > instance. On a single CPU server, I found that the number of requests > the > > server was able to render was cut by nearly 50% +/- when adding a second > > instance. > > > > My rule for building out ZEO Client servers is: > > Single CPU - Single Zope instance > > Multiple Processors - # CPUs == # of Zope instances > > Hi Andrew, > > And how can I distribute the load over these Instances, running on the > same machine? > > Thanks in advance. > > Fernando Lujan ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1?
We use lots and lots of Centos 4.x servers – not a problem there – go for it. Andrew Sawyers Zope Corporation Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harald Finnås Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:43 PM To: zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1? I'm new to Zope, and I've been playing with 2.8.1, but I really haven't done any real work with it yet. Now I expect to get my new decicated Zope hardware tomorrow, so I have to decide if I should go for 2.8.4 or 3.1.0. Any tips if I should go for the latest and greatest or stick with 2.8? I've also seen comments that running Zope on RHEL/CentOS might not be wise. My test env. is using FC4, but I'm planning to install CenOS 4.2 on the production server. Unwise choice? Regards, Harald ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1?
I meant to send a reply to the list. The gist of my offlist response to Harald was: “We use lots and lots of Centos 4.x servers in heavy production with no problems. Go for it.” Andrew Sawyers Zope Corporation Zope Managed Hosting Software Engineer From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doyon, Jean-Francois Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:40 PM To: 'HaraldFinnås'; zope@zope.org Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1? I'm using Zope 2.7.x on RHEL 3.x without trouble ... Though I should be upgrading to CentOS 4.x fairly soon ... what problems have you heard of? As for Zope, if you're not sure, then you probably want 2.8.x ... 3.1 is stable, but for lower level development ... also depends what features you need ... some CMF things aren't avilable in it yet. J.F. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of HaraldFinnås Sent: October 26, 2005 4:43 PM To: zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1? I'm new to Zope, and I've been playing with 2.8.1, but I really haven't done any real work with it yet. Now I expect to get my new decicated Zope hardware tomorrow, so I have to decide if I should go for 2.8.4 or 3.1.0. Any tips if I should go for the latest and greatest or stick with 2.8? I've also seen comments that running Zope on RHEL/CentOS might not be wise. My test env. is using FC4, but I'm planning to install CenOS 4.2 on the production server. Unwise choice? Regards, Harald ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Job Opportunity with Revolution Health Group
I'll keep this short, since I wasn't sure of the list policy regarding these types of posts. Revolution Health Group is seeking python and Zope programmers for several positions. If anyone is interested in exiciting job opportunities with a well funded startup; feel free to email me offlist for more details. General company info can be found at www.recolution.com and Google. Thanks, Andrew Sawyers Revolution Health Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: Job Opportunity with Revolution Health Group
I apologize for this follow-on post, I typo'd the company URL and wanted to clear that up: www.revolution.com No more from me on this. Thanks, Andrew On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 12:11 -0500, Andrew Sawyers wrote: > I'll keep this short, since I wasn't sure of the list policy regarding > these types of posts. > > Revolution Health Group is seeking python and Zope programmers for > several positions. If anyone is interested in exiciting job > opportunities with a well funded startup; feel free to email me offlist > for more details. General company info can be found at > www.recolution.com and Google. > > Thanks, > > Andrew Sawyers > Revolution Health Group > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Trying zope on Linux
Allen, Most likely your default installation installed apache to run on startup. You need to stop Apache. You can try the following as root: /sbin/service http stop If that fails, look for apachectl - and stop the service with that. Then pull the service from startup services. To do that, try as root: /sbin/chkconfig -level 2345 httpd off I don't know how all linux varients implement the above examples. Andrew Sawyers On Thu, 2005-12-15 at 05:20 -0800, Allen Huang wrote: > I'm trying zope on linux but I have come a cross a problem. > > I windows, I simply changed the port number from 8080 to 80 > in zope.conf so I could get to my site without typeing the port. > > But in Linux, I did the same thing but it always tells me that some > other server already occupied this port. (and I just started too, so > there shouldn't be any server. right??) > > I'm now trying to figure out what server to close but with no luck at > all.. > > can someone help me so I can display my site on port 80? > > __ > Yahoo! Shopping > Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Leave the ivory tower now!
> > > what's needed to spruce up the howtos, or zope.org? iirc, there was a > closed group with that mission setup some time back > > > It wasn't really 'closed' - just 'well defined'. It fell apart, due to both of the committed developers backing out due to commitments they couldn't get around. I am still highly interested in helping lead this and actually doing work if we had 1 or 2 others who were committed. We also already have a designer put in some time to assist with a "nicer" look and feel who is still willing to work on this. The goal was not to just 'spruce' things up, but rather change the focus of the site from everything to just Zope the software, Zope Documentation, and Zope Community. I was just talking about this on Christmas with someone, so there's still hope it will happen. Andrew Sawyers ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Leave the ivory tower now!
On Sun, 2005-12-25 at 10:03 +0800, Bakhtiar A Hamid wrote: > > The 'closed group' dissolved a while ago. > > > that's sad(?) anything came out of the group? i think we need to do > to zope.org what we did to zope2. ignore and build. leave it as > old.zope.org and link from the new site. > That was the plan. I'd like to revive the plan. :) Volunteers? Andrew ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Spam-Bounces
IIRC, all of the zope mailing lists only accept mail from subscribers - so these are likely just someone spoofing the sender address. No reason to try and handle this on the list server side IMNSHO. Andrew On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 12:37 +0100, Tino Wildenhain wrote: > Hi, > > I'm getting bounces of messages sent to zope@zope.org > with aparently large binary attachments. Luckily they > are too big to get thru automatically. > > Looks like spammers are around and faking identities. > > Is it possible to enhance the list software to check > gpg keys of posts? > > Just an idea... > > ++Tino > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Spam-Bounces
I'm a little confused, if that's the whole point, not sure what the point is. Perhaps I jumped the gun by replying :). I guess I would setup a local procmail rule or posfix rule to not accept mail with these attachments? If the mail is not going through the zope mailservers, I'm not sure how one would logically deal with this spoofing problem? One options is enforcing this with SPF records - we could get Mark to set this up on the zope.org side perhaps? Andrew On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 15:39 +0100, Tino Wildenhain wrote: > Andrew Sawyers schrieb: > > IIRC, all of the zope mailing lists only accept mail from subscribers - > > so these are likely just someone spoofing the sender address. No reason > > to try and handle this on the list server side IMNSHO. > > Of course they are. Thats the whole point :-) On which side do you think > it can be handled instead? ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope vs Plone: performance issues!
> standard products that probably will not help you. I'm not a speed > guru, but load balancing with ZEO would probably be the easiest way of > improving the performance in this case. That's my guess. > If he's got a dual cpu'd machine and is running two zeo instances, he's fine unless he's got a ram problem. To be running 2 zeo instances on the same machine, they have to be doing some type of load balancing or faking load balancing so that ea. zeo client can respond to requests. One thing that might help is CRANK up your on disk zeo cache as high as you can afford - it's just disk space. If this hasn't been done, the zeo clients might be spending a lot of time 'requesting' objects from the zeo storage server when you can be caching them on the zeo clients. Some substantial effort would likely be required to optimize the Plone installation. If you choose this route, look at the skins - there's lots, lots of layers, and lots of searches going on you could eliminate or rewrite to be more efficient. If you go down the Zope/MySQL path, this would require some substantial effort also. I would recommend, if you're going to be putting substantial effort into the application, look at a CMF/Five implementation, relying heavily on using the View paradigm Lennart references. Another option, not knowing your technical level, is to implement in Zope 3. I personally am liking Zope 3 alot. IIRC, there is a Zope 3 CMS project out there. Andrew Sawyers ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Squid & ESI
Yes it works; we have some stuff working here at my place of employment. I had some problems getting the right squid build to work last year when looking at this for a customer, but since the team here has had no problems that I'm aware of with current builds. Andrew On Thu, 2006-01-26 at 19:44 +, Chris Withers wrote: > Alan Milligan wrote: > > We haven't had any problems in building Squid-3.x images > > ...with ESI enabled? > > > I've also heard of at least one other abandoned Squid3 rollout, and it's > > quite possible that without Robert's participation, Squid3 isn't really > > production strength. > > Yup, that and Squid 3's "not production quality" status makes the whole > Squid/ESI thing a total non-starter, which is a shame... > > ...but I do wish, as a result, that people would stop touting it as a > way to scale Zope apps. > > cheers, > > Chris > ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Managed Server
Depending on what performance levels you need, I've used these folks in the past and have had excellent service from them: aplus.net (http://servers.aplus.net/valueservers.html) - Their $49.00/mo server was an awesome buy for what I needed - and it's fully dedicated. They have higher end machines as well. You get root, so you can do whatever you wish. Andrew Sawyers On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 22:56 +, michael nt milne wrote: > Servelocity at > > http://www.servelocity.net/ > > are also very good. You can rent your own dedicated server and install > what you want on it. Excellent support and service. > > On 3/12/06, Allen Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > +1 for Zettai. Have had great success with them. > If you need a place to stick a server then I highly recommend > bayMountain. Amazing service and support. A great team of open > source and Zope experts there. > > Allen > > > David wrote: > > J Cameron Cooper wrote: > > > >> Dan Gaibel wrote: > >> > >>> Hello Folks, > >>> > >>> I'm interested in finding a company that will do monthly > managed zope > >>> hosting. We're looking for a dedicated machine. I know > that Zope Corp > >>> does > >>> this and it is quite expensive. I wonder if anyone has had > any > >>> experiences > >>> with such a service. > >>> > >>> Any advice is highly appreciated, and I apologize if this > list is an > >>> inappropriate venue to pose such a question. > >> > >> > >> > >> There are a number of these companies around. iMeme and > Zettai come to > >> mind. I'm sure there are more nowadays. > >> > >> --jcc > > > > > > Dan, > > > > I use Zettai. Can't complain at all. Even though I use > virtual host > > plan (I share a server with about 8(?) others) the > performance is better > > than I feared might be the case. > > The best of all worlds is to at least co-host your > server. But thats > > more over-head for the developer. Zettai support is > excellent. > > (although they do get cranky if you lean too much on them). > > > > I just checked out the iMeme site - and they may be pretty > good ( jcc > > wouldn't recommend them otherwise) but their presentation is > gawd-awful > > and not confidence inspiring. > > David > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > > > > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > > > -- > michael > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Give it a rest + answers. (Re: Re: Zope + Apache on Quad Debian machine)
On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 08:24 -0500, Tres Seaver wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > WHile at ZC, one of the other engineers and I did some testing on SMB > boxes, and found that "one appserver per CPU" gave us near linear > scaling of the application, without any explicit affinity set. I don't > have the numbers (we were using stock Dell 1U dual CPU boxes, I think), > but the win seemed clear enough that we quit invesigating taskset. > The other engineer was me, and it was close enough to double the load per instance, per cpu. If he needs to test it, the numbers are easy to get. Run a single instance on a SMP Server, and hit it with load. You will get Y. Run another instance and spread that load across both instances and you will get nearly 2xY. Take a single cpu server and run 1 instance and load test it, and you'll get Y. Take that same single cpu server and run 2 instance, and load test it across both instances, and you'll get Y. These tests were done on both Linux and FreeBSD and both were approximately the same. The conclusion was, no further complexity is required to get a substantial performance benfit by running SMP Servers with multiple Zeo Clients instances, where the # of CPUS == the # of Zeo Client instances. This has been posted to the lists serveral times BTW. The only snafu is to make sure you have enough RAM to run several zeo client instances. If you've got a 4way server, I'd recommend 16GBs of RAM if it's a big site. I personally like to put as much ram into a server as it can physically handle. Andrew Sawyers > > Tres. > - -- > === > Tres Seaver +1 202-558-7113 [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFEIVAK+gerLs4ltQ4RAnb9AKC7qw38+BqNdAbY79bqPR4/G7USCwCbBmit > UX+GcftjNQ5fUKajALsEbSk= > =+E5c > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Virtual Hosting is confusing
On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 00:14 +0530, Vishal Kashyap wrote: > Andreas , > > > What's the problem with using Vhosting as described in the Zope Book. The > > documentation explains how to solve the problem. If you have a problem, > > tell us about the problem. > > I am not able to understand that. In apache what we do is create a > document root make sure that apache is listening on the ip on which > virtual host is running. > In apache I simply do is > > > ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED] > DocumentRoot /www/docs/dummy-host.example.com > ServerName dummy-host.example.com > ErrorLog logs/dummy-host.example.com-error_log > CustomLog logs/dummy-host.example.com-access_log common > > > > What is equivalent of above in Zope. The equivalent in Zope if you continue using apache would be a VirtualHost with a rewrite. For example: ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ServerName www.foo.com RewriteEngine On RewriteRule ^(.*) http://127.0.0.1:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/www.foo.com:80/sub_ob/VirtualHostRoot/$1 [L,P] Where sub_ob is the zope object you wish to map the 'site' to. You could also by pass using apache and just use the VirtualHostMonster Mappings tab: www.foo.com/sub_ob www.bar.com/someother_ob Hope this helps a bit more, Andrew > > I know its given in Zope book. but could not understand that may be I > am to much occupied with apache. > > -- > With Best Regards, > Vishal Kashyap. > http://www.vishal.net.in > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Some installation glitches
I've not experienced any build problems running on 64bit machines. I've got a 64bit laptop and 64bit dev desktop machine, not to mention all our production servers are 64bit as well. Andrew Sawyers > > > --On 16. April 2006 09:07:28 +0200 Jerry Westrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> On Sunday 16 April 2006 08:27, Andreas Jung wrote: >>> --On 15. April 2006 20:42:11 -0700 Dennis Allison >>> >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> > When I install Zope 2.9.0 on a 64 bit machine the path to the system >>> is >>> > >>> > .../Zope/lib64/python/... >>> > >>> > but with Zope 2.9.2, also on a 64-but machine the path to the system >>> is >>> > >>> > ...Zope/lib/python/ >>> > >>> > Why the change? >>> >>> Huh? Never seen that! ...and no idea where this change should come >>> from. >>> >>> -aj >> >> I confirm, I also have problems with building zope 2.9.2. on X86... >> >> Allison have you got a work around? >> > > Scary. Unfortunately I don't have a 64 bit machine to test it on my own. > > -aj > > -- > ZOPYX Ltd. & Co. KG - Charlottenstr. 37/1 - 72070 Tübingen - Germany > Web: www.zopyx.com - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Phone +49 - 7071 - 793376 > E-Publishing, Python, Zope & Plone development, Consulting > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Some installation glitches
I'm running Suse 10 - and I've got both /usr/lib and /usr/lib64 I don't believe that dependency has anything to do with Zope. Andrew Andrew Sawyers wrote: >> I've not experienced any build problems running on 64bit machines. I've >> got a 64bit laptop and 64bit dev desktop machine, not to mention all our >> production servers are 64bit as well. >> >> > I've seen the same lib/lib64 problem in Gentoo Linux on Zope 3. > > To work-around the problem, I make a symlink from lib to lib64 after > install, and things work OK. > > -Jim Washington > > > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Some installation glitches
> Andrew Sawyers wrote: >> I'm running Suse 10 - and I've got both /usr/lib and /usr/lib64 >> I don't believe that dependency has anything to do with Zope. >> >> > If I take the zope distribution tarball and do the configure, make, make > install dance, I get a 'lib64' directory inside the Zope installation > instead of a 'lib' directory. > > mkzopeinstance has trouble with that configuration. It needs a 'lib' > directory instead of a 'lib64' directory, so mkzopeinstance fails unless > I do something, like symlinking lib64 to lib. We run our own scripts to build out instancesthat's likely the difference. IIRC though, I did stumble across something like this awhile back. Andrew > > -Jim Washington > > ___ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
Sorry for the cross-post; lets but wanted to make sure those on the zope-web list saw this. Lets keep this on the zope list going forward. For sometime, we have tried to coordinate various numbers of people in the community to get an improved Zope.org up and functional. Some of this improvement was through the 'visual' look and feel of the site and the other was by cleaning up what has been often thought as unmaintainable code as well as reducing the content scope of Zope.org. During this time, it was largely agreed that the zope.org site would highlight ZOPE the technology, Documentation, the products found in the Zope Code Repository, and highlight the community, to offload features which people had previously relied on zope.org for in the past. The current zope.org site would remain available for some time while a (tedious) and manual migration of content deemed beneficial would be placed on the new site. To the best of my knowledge, this is still agreed on by all those who over the months participated in countless #zope-web irc chats and discussions on the mailing lists. It then came to technology. Some cared some didn't. I personally didn't if the result was something which the community could be proud of and not make excuses for as they directed people to the site. This caused some stalling of the momentum. We had many ideas, some text which is in svn at codespeak, and artisitic work being done. Geoff Davis contacted me with a proposal which would get this move started and has offered resources to accomplish this to finally happen. They currently have taken the artistic work done by Tom Von Lahndorff and put it online at http://new.zope.nl for preview. I'd like to forward Geoff's proposal to the list, now that the Zope Foundation is setup to act on this generous offer by members of the community. I'd like to see this get blessed so we can move forward and finally get a site which has a focused scope and is something the community can be proud of. I have done some minor editorial changes to reflect discussions back and forth since the initial offering. A group of people in the (Plone) community have volunteered their time and resources to put together an improved, **interim** zope.org site. We understand that work is underway on a longer-term zope.org solution -- the current initiative is not intended to replace this longer-term work; rather, the goal is to improve upon the existing zope.org site until something better is put together. I am appending a sketch of the vision and would like very much to hear your feedback. Geoff Maintenance and Administration -- A number of people have expressed concerns about the maintenance of zope.org going forward. We share those concerns! A central goal in setting this site up is to make maintenance as painless as possible. Toward that end, we envision doing the following: * The zope.org site will be set up with the same software that runs plone.org. The sites will have different skins, of course, and will be configured a bit differently, but the underlying software will be the same. * The products on the site will all be off-the-shelf products that have an active community of developers. The current likely candidates: PlonePAS + LDAP for site management authentication, PloneHelpCenter for documentation, and PloneSoftwareCenter for software distribution. For bug tracking, either links to the existing ZC trackers or a Trac installation. * plone.org and zope.org software updates will be done at the same time and by the same people. The more similar the code/products are, the simpler it will be to update them in parallel. The Plone community will manage upgrades of the off-the- shelf code. However, if people decide to customize the code on the zope.org site, those people will then be responsible for ensuring its continued functionality during upgrades. This should be discouraged without valid requirements someone is willing to 'pay' for, either with $ or labor. * zope.org will have a paid sysadmin. Bas van der Linden of Amaze has volunteered the services of Wichert Akkerman, the very talented sysadmin who currently administers plone.org. * zope.org will be hosted outside of ZC's servers. I believe Bas has lined up a suitable box similar to the one that runs plone.org (dual P4-class processors, lots of memory). Content --- * Volunteers from the Zope community will be responsible for the site's content. The current mock-up uses a skin designed by Tom Von Lahndorff. I imagine that the initial text and information architecture will come from the svn repository of content that Andrew Sawyers and others have been working on. See http://new.zope.nl for an initial a mock-up. The existing concept of membership for uploading bit-rot content will be retired. * Existing co
Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
On Sat, 2006-06-24 at 20:13 +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote: > Andrew Sawyers wrote at 2006-6-23 18:15 -0400: > > ... > > For bug > > tracking, either links to the existing ZC trackers or > > a Trac installation. > > If you move to "Trac" *PLEASE* migrate the current issues. > > It is very discouraging to loose all the bug reports > and patches (as happened when a former collector site crashed). Of course, if that were to happen, there would have to be a migration. Agreed. > > > ... > >Content > >--- > > > >* The existing > > concept of membership for uploading bit-rot content will be retired. > > This means what? There would be VERY limited things an individual could upload. I personally argued strongly for 0 membership on this site. If the ideas of micro sites went forward, the appropriate micro sites could allow (or not) membership as necessary. > > Some of the current content might not be very valuable but > there are also great pieces of software! Devil's in the details. I would presume all software could be retained in some manner forever. ?? I'd personally like to see a community member step up and write a kick ass Zope software site - dedicated to community software packages. If that didn't happen, maybe we can migrate software packages to sourceforge if the 'owners' are MIA? > > >* Existing community content on zope.org will NOT be migrated. > > The content will be made available on ZC's existing server > > via URL rewriting (to keep existing links from breaking) or > > by moving everything to an old.zope.org domain. The best > > content will be migrated by hand to PloneHelpCenter / > > PloneSoftwareCenter products. > > Who will decides which content is worth migration? For the site I refer to, only that which meets the scope of the site. Again, I'd love to see community members step up for the areas which are necessary for supporting things which Lennart refers to. I personally don't think those sites need to be official Zope (Foundation). I think Zope Labs is an excellent site which fills some of this niche. A Zope Foundation site should not compete where the community excells already in my opinion. I don't disagree with Lennart, just possibly who 'runs' it. Andrew > > > > ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
On Sat, 2006-06-24 at 10:58 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: > We have already made a new www.zope.org once. That was an ambitious > project, which potential did not become fully realized. We need to > take with us the experiences of that. > Trust me, many of us do. Jens and I spent many many hours on the predecessor to www.zope.org which got canned. Thus, I think it's imperative to limit the scope and focus of www.zope.org to that which I noted. Superior documentation, Product releases from svn.zope.org and Marketing. > And this is mainly: > > 1. We do NOT want a new www.zope.org. Oh, you may not be 'WE' do. Some of us make up the 'WE'. We want it. No need to argue this point. > We want MANY new > "something".zope.org. We should have a products.zope.org, and a > collector.zope.org, and a faq.zope.org, and a wiki.zope.org, and > blablabla. I agree, to some degree - where we may disagree is who 'manages' and runs them. I would like to see the community step up and create those sites as it interests them. > www.zope.org would be an hyping site, where we hype zope, and referr > people to the other "microsites". <-- Community Sites I agree - just change from microsite to 'communuty supported site' and I wouldn't find any reason to argue this personally. :) > I'm very much less concerned about what software we actually have. > It's a minor issue in this, although of course, not writing software > from scratch unless you have too seems to be a good idea. The > important thing is that we do not try to build a big monolithic site > that does everything again, because then this will for the third time > stall and slowly die. Agreed, thus note the focus and scope items of the proposal - they are key to the success IMNSHO. > > > * zope.org will have a paid sysadmin. Bas van der Linden of > > Amaze has volunteered the services of Wichert Akkerman, > > the very talented sysadmin who currently administers > > plone.org. > > Well, this is of course completely up to the foundation board. It's > probably a good idea, it's just a matter of judging the benefit and > the cost. ;-) This paid sysadmin has been volunteered already and is being paid for by Ras van der Linden - suppose if the foundation doesn't want to accept that gracious offer, they could decline his offer. > > > * Volunteers from the Zope community will be responsible for the > > site's content. The current mock-up uses a skin designed > > by Tom Von Lahndorff. I imagine that the initial text and > > information architecture will come from the svn repository > > of content that Andrew Sawyers and others have been working on. > > See http://new.zope.nl for an initial a mock-up. The existing > > concept of membership for uploading bit-rot content will be retired. > > No I don't follow you. Surely product information and news will be > uploaded and created by members? And surely that means some of it > sooner or later will rot? I'd like to see some other site write this software and feed it to www.zope.org via rss or some Ajax implementation the designers come up with. The limited content placed directly on zope.org should be that noted herein and other emails IMNSHO. > > > * Existing community content on zope.org will NOT be migrated. > > The content will be made available on ZC's existing server > > via URL rewriting (to keep existing links from breaking) or > > by moving everything to an old.zope.org domain. > > The old site can be moved to a old.zope.org as soon as there is a > products.zope.org and collector.zope org and news.zope.org up. > > > The best > > content will be migrated by hand to PloneHelpCenter / > > PloneSoftwareCenter products. > > I see no reason why product developers can't be "held responsible" for > migrating their own products. Products that then are not migrated can > be seen as abandoned and will go away when old.zope.org goes away. The can - to that site the community steps up with or to sourceforge. No need for it to be on the www.zope.org. I of course prefer it if someone in the community did it, so they could feed data to zope.org for display. It's about integration in my opinion - not about consolidation. > > > * The zope.org site should acknowledge contributors in a overt fashion. > > "Zope Rock Stars" who have risen up above the call of duty, > > contributors, etc should be noted. The Foundation can determine how to > > implement this, but those paying for and providing services should > > receive acknowledgment. > > Yeah, good idea! A must in my opinion. > Andrew ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 08:38 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: > > OK; I see what you mean now. You ant to create the www.zope.org that > works as the main entrance and integratoor of the microsites. The > proble is that you wnat to do that BEFORE the microsites exist, which > is backwards. I'd beg to differ. A community such as what PHP has built didn't work this way. They managed this very successfully. We have not. I think the problem is you want to wait until the complete city is built before you think you can open select stores for business. So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on approach. > > Also, you seem to think that the microsites can be run by whoever > under whatever domainname. That doesn't work. We can't have our main > product site disappear because the guy who managed it got tired or > forget to pay his internet provider bill. And it looks bad if the > community is a hodgepodge of domains and URLs. Yes, I seem to think this. You seem to think it needs to continue to be centrally managed., which has been a proven failure IMNSHO. If you're concerned about domains are easily managed. It's called a CNAME. You seem to presume the worst case. I'm more of a capitalist in regards to what I'd expect to happen here. Empower the community and acknowledge them, and they will do what is necessary. We've seen the success of a group trying to centrally manage the entire breadth of zope.org. As far as I know, the community has been empowered to do things to improve the state and condition of the zope.org arena for quite a long time. Nothing has happened substantially. What has happened though, is community areas have popped up to fill the failing area on zope.org because it was easier for them and they cared to do something. Promoting this IS the right way, IMNSHO. Rewarding this, is the right way INMNSHO. Wishing it is going to happen out of ether is questionable, just because the foundation is now formed. I'd love to be wrong, but unless people had so much contempt for Zope Corp directly that they refused to do anything on these fronts for that reason alone, I don't see how this situation magically changes. Prove me wrong. > > I say that you repost this proposal when we have some community sites > to integrate. :-) I appreciate you saying that - but again, I beg to differ. What you propose is to continue to have the current status quo. I and others are proposing to force the move. Guess I could wait to move into my new house because the carpets and hardwood floors aren't laid yet - or I could move in and make due. I prefer the later. I think we have the community sites. We have docs on plope.com (but I'd prefer those to actually live on zope.org). We have zopelabs.com, we have zwikis.org IIRC, there is a great site D2M has been doing work on, and there are several others which have great content. None of which push their content back to zope.org - but can, and can be used to fulfill our immediate needs. The only community site which is yet to step up is a product site. No one is saying bag products on zope.org the day after. Do something - there's plenty who have and are waiting to do more. Don't squash that. Andrew ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 21:41 +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote: > > Then I fear few interesting content will arrive at this site. > Well, I think the content of this site is what I'd noted is what I noted in earlier emails. It might not be 'interesting', but I would hope it to be quality and focused. I have faith the 'interesting' aspects you wish will come from the community. > We use Plone.org's infrastructure. When I remember right, > we have membership there and this membership contributes > a good deal of valuable content (software, howtos, faqs). We have failed at managing the breadth of content and properly presenting it to potential and exisitng Zope users. Maybe that sub-community has not. > > Why should it be different for Zope.org? Because it has not shown it can rise to the occasion. Outside our community this might not be so obvious, but referring new co-workers to zope.org when they inquire as to the technology I bring to the table at work, is an embarrassment. I think my position is pretty clear. It's up to the Foundation ultimately. I was asked to get the proposal out. I've provided my view. The rest will become history. :) Andrew > > > ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 09:50 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: > On 6/27/06, John Schinnerer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is a basic principle of design that works (as opposed to design > > that fails to work). > > Start small and work the edges outwards. > > The "work edges outwards" that works is often modular in nature (perhaps > > a.k.a. 'micro-sites'). > > That doesn't mean it can't look-and-feel like "one big site as access > > point." > > > > Biting off more than one (person, organization, whatever) can chew > > usually results in choking... > > Exactly my points. > > > So I actually see a lot of agreement in what may appear to be argument. > > Well, the proposal is to start only with the accesspoint (and the > origonal proposal did not contain anything else than the access point, > and also proposed it to be interim, for some reason). This is not true Lennart. I'm not going to keep arguing with you; but I think it was clear from what I originally sent this is not as you describe it. Of course, I wrote it - and maybe I'm thinking more to myself about what I mean then saying it. > We can't start > with only the accesspoint, as we would have no product listing and ... I wonder how all the other successful projects out there manage to not have an arbitrary products listing managed in their sites. PHP, JAVA, RoR, Python, ad nauseum. I just don't see how it's the sole stopping point. Write the 'Zope product' management software and expose it as a service - put it on the site. Nearly everyone uses Google to find anything they care about anyhow. No one said bag the collectors. Rewrite http://www.zope.org/Collectors/ to collectors.zope.org and that's done. > no collector other than at old.zope.org, which would be completely > bizarre. We have to start, as a minimum, with creating a > products.zope.org and a collector.zope.org (or maybe rather > bugs.zope.org) before we can replace www.zope.org. > None of this is hard to do. It should be doable in a couple of days worth of > work, in > any case less than a week. Are you volunteering to do those two things in the next week? If so, then maybe we can move forward if the foundation has interest. Andrew ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
