[Zope] Production Advice
Greetings All, After a long dev cycle, I'm putting a Zope web app into production shortly... and need some advice. What is a good daily backup strategy with Zope 2.71? I'll be running ZEO, and only use three add-on products, Formulator, VarImage and PIL. My application consists of regular items in the ZODB, two python Products, and a half-dozen ZClasses Right now, I'm developing on a WinXP machine, and am considering SuSE 9.1 for my spec, any experiences, good or bad?... YAST2-installed or manually? All advice would be helpful as I weigh my options, -Jon Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Best Practice for transparent redirect for plone site
I've had good luck with a RevProxy tool called Pound, which is Zope friendly. This and the VHM work great together, and no Apache overhead. http://www.apsis.ch/pound -Jon JulianRead wrote: Hi i have set up a plone site and here at : http://www.myplonesite.com:8080/ploneinstance/mypage and i want it to look like http://www.myplonesite.com/mypage what is the best way to achieve this server setup is linux/apache/zope2.8.6/plone2.1.2 i have looked at virutalhostmonster but is it more efficient to use apache mod_rewrite rules? Please give examples as mod_rewrite leaves me confused. Thanks -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Best-Practice-for-transparent-redirect-for-plone-site-t1299242.html#a3460348 Sent from the Zope - General forum at Nabble.com. ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] New Product called Zoep
I debated bringing it up, glad I did. -Jon Dennis Allison wrote: I think there is potential for confusion. Both Zope Corp and teh Zope Foundation should send cease and desist letters. On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, Jonathan Cyr wrote: Hello, Is there any concern about naming confusion with the new VOIP browser extension called "Zoep" (from Slashdot this morning). Mozilla Firebird became FireFox, due to naming confusion. Should these folks continue with such a similar name? Is anyone concerned? Two cents, -Jon -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] New Product called Zoep
Decided to look it up... Interesting page at... http://www.zope.com/about_us/legal/trademark.html How important is the Zope brand and trademark? Will any action be worth the effort/cost? What/Who is the ZTAG Group? Still, just asking questions, -Jon Peter Bengtsson wrote: I'm concerned but don't have the energy or power to do much about it. The least I can do is to blog about it :) On 2/7/06, Jonathan Cyr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello, Is there any concern about naming confusion with the new VOIP browser extension called "Zoep" (from Slashdot this morning). Mozilla Firebird became FireFox, due to naming confusion. Should these folks continue with such a similar name? Is anyone concerned? Two cents, -Jon -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Peter Bengtsson, work www.fry-it.com home www.peterbe.com hobby www.issuetrackerproduct.com -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] New Product called Zoep
Hello, Is there any concern about naming confusion with the new VOIP browser extension called "Zoep" (from Slashdot this morning). Mozilla Firebird became FireFox, due to naming confusion. Should these folks continue with such a similar name? Is anyone concerned? Two cents, -Jon -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] SSL over Multiple Zope/Plone sites?
er Pound can be found at http://www.apsis.ch/pound -Jon Jonathan Cyr wrote: You can have one HTTPS/SSL per IP per port. I use Pound instead of Apache, and can run an instance for each port. I use HTTPS on port 444, and 445 for testing/staging arrangements that match the production HTTPS on 443. I can set up a self-signed or 3rd party certificate for each port, and the domain is set in each new certificate. And simply use a standard web page to redirect to the new HTTPS port. (https://stagingarea.something.com:444/directory) Also, you can use Pound to virtual host SSL sites, but the certificate will not match, and a warning to the user. If you accept the warning, you are secure, but not very friendly. Pound can be found at http://www.pound.ch/pound and is very Zope friendly. This is not a user-friendly solution for production-level sites, but great for staging/testing/experimental/admin needs. Not sure, if this helps, -Jon michael nt milne wrote: Hi I've got a few Plone sites set-up using Apache through Zope. The question is, I'd like to implement SSL on the site login etc, as it's not secure without this. There's also one site I'd like to serve completely over https. However. I'm told that you can't run SSL on virtual hosts and can only have once SSL site per IP address. What would be the way round this? I know I could set-up SSL on Zope only using the following documentation: http://www.zope.org/Members/Ioan/ZopeSSL but if I can't carry this through to Apache then I'd have to run Zope as the web server as well as the application server. Thanks Michael ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] SSL over Multiple Zope/Plone sites?
You can have one HTTPS/SSL per IP per port. I use Pound instead of Apache, and can run an instance for each port. I use HTTPS on port 444, and 445 for testing/staging arrangements that match the production HTTPS on 443. I can set up a self-signed or 3rd party certificate for each port, and the domain is set in each new certificate. And simply use a standard web page to redirect to the new HTTPS port. (https://stagingarea.something.com:444/directory) Also, you can use Pound to virtual host SSL sites, but the certificate will not match, and a warning to the user. If you accept the warning, you are secure, but not very friendly. Pound can be found at http://www.pound.ch/pound and is very Zope friendly. This is not a user-friendly solution for production-level sites, but great for staging/testing/experimental/admin needs. Not sure, if this helps, -Jon michael nt milne wrote: Hi I've got a few Plone sites set-up using Apache through Zope. The question is, I'd like to implement SSL on the site login etc, as it's not secure without this. There's also one site I'd like to serve completely over https. However. I'm told that you can't run SSL on virtual hosts and can only have once SSL site per IP address. What would be the way round this? I know I could set-up SSL on Zope only using the following documentation: http://www.zope.org/Members/Ioan/ZopeSSL but if I can't carry this through to Apache then I'd have to run Zope as the web server as well as the application server. Thanks Michael ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Where oh where is Repozo
Didn't think of that... and it wont mess with my config. Thanks, -Jon Håkan Johansson wrote: On Jan 16, 2006, at 22:52, Jonathan Cyr wrote: Does the Zope Wiki article on Repozo tell you where to find it, maybe I missed it. I actually looked for quite a while. Maybe it just needs to be a little clearer... or maybe I need a smack in the head. I didn't have much success anyway, I setup my Zope/ZEO setup using SuSE 9.0's onboard Python and PIL installs, which, at the time, seemed an easy way to reproduce a ZEO client machine over and over. Upon running repozo, it can't find the pieces of Zope/ZODB, it needs to run, and I get an immediate traceback refering to the import of ZODB. After trying to adjust the pythonpath (wouldn't stick), and trying to drop repozo in the right directory. I couldn't get it to work. And, frankly, with everything Zope/Python/PIL working fine, I didn't mess with it very hard, fearing breaking it. Using SuSE's YAST installed Python seems to be my mistake... but It made sense at the time, and the right versions and everything... and although it works, upgrading Zope and using repozo are major drawbacks. I'll have to build a new box, correctly, and migrate to it. In any case, thanks for your time, -Jon I had the same problem with repozo. I "solved" it by modifying the repozo.py file and adding "sys.path.append( PATH/TO/ZOPE/lib/python )" right before the "from ZODB.FileStorage ..." line. It's not a beautiful fix, but it works. ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Where oh where is Repozo
Does the Zope Wiki article on Repozo tell you where to find it, maybe I missed it. I actually looked for quite a while. Maybe it just needs to be a little clearer... or maybe I need a smack in the head. I didn't have much success anyway, I setup my Zope/ZEO setup using SuSE 9.0's onboard Python and PIL installs, which, at the time, seemed an easy way to reproduce a ZEO client machine over and over. Upon running repozo, it can't find the pieces of Zope/ZODB, it needs to run, and I get an immediate traceback refering to the import of ZODB. After trying to adjust the pythonpath (wouldn't stick), and trying to drop repozo in the right directory. I couldn't get it to work. And, frankly, with everything Zope/Python/PIL working fine, I didn't mess with it very hard, fearing breaking it. Using SuSE's YAST installed Python seems to be my mistake... but It made sense at the time, and the right versions and everything... and although it works, upgrading Zope and using repozo are major drawbacks. I'll have to build a new box, correctly, and migrate to it. In any case, thanks for your time, -Jon Tim Peters wrote: [Jonathan Cyr] Where is the latest version of Repozo, the backup tool, kept? Is there a reason, that it's not included with the Zope install/utilities (at least the 2.7.x I'm using). [... time passes ...] Thanks for the quick response, I noticed that the my WinXP Zope (sandbox) doesn't have it, but my production SuSE Linux does. It's in my WinXP Zope-2_7-branch sandbox: C:\Code\Zope-2_7-branch>dir/b utilities\ZODBTools\rep* repozo.py It's also in Zope 2.8 branch, 2.9 branch, and current Zope trunk. For some reason (oversight?), Zope3 does not include ZODB tools, but you should find them in every flavor of Zope2 (and of course a CVS or SVN sandbox gets you the same stuff no matter which platform you use to do the checkout). ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Where oh where is Repozo
Thanks for the quick response, I noticed that the my WinXP Zope (sandbox) doesn't have it, but my production SuSE Linux does. So the URL is very helpful. Thanks, -Jon J Cameron Cooper wrote: Jonathan Cyr wrote: Um, Where is the latest version of Repozo, the backup tool, kept? Is there a reason, that it's not included with the Zope install/utilities (at least the 2.7.x I'm using). I confess, I've been stopping my zope, and tar'ing the directories so now I want to clean up my act and use Repozo... and I'm having difficulty finding it in Google, Zope.org. BTW, there is an excellent explanation of Repozo in two places, http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FileStorageBackup http://www.plope.com/Members/chrism/repozo but neither have links to a source/repository. It also says here, that repozo is included with Plone, but not with Zope... h I find Zope to be super stable, with zero corruptions of any kind, and no need to ever restore a backup... but lightning may strike, and I've gotten away with poor backup disciplines long enough. A URL would be much appreciated. $ locate repozo /home/jccooper/zope/Zope27/bin/repozo.py /home/jccooper/zope/Zope-2.8.3-final/utilities/ZODBTools/manual_tests/testrepozo.py /home/jccooper/zope/Zope-2.8.3-final/utilities/ZODBTools/repozo.py /home/jccooper/zope/Zope-2.8.3-final/build-base/python-2.3/build-scripts/repozo.py /home/jccooper/zope/Zope283/bin/repozo.py Also: http://svn.zope.org/ZODB/trunk/src/scripts/repozo.py?view=log --jcc -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Where oh where is Repozo
And then I found it, and felt really dumb... Many apologies. under ZopeInstallationDirectory/utilities/ZODBTools/reposo.py Many apologies, -Jon Jonathan Cyr wrote: Um, Where is the latest version of Repozo, the backup tool, kept? Is there a reason, that it's not included with the Zope install/utilities (at least the 2.7.x I'm using). I confess, I've been stopping my zope, and tar'ing the directories so now I want to clean up my act and use Repozo... and I'm having difficulty finding it in Google, Zope.org. BTW, there is an excellent explanation of Repozo in two places, http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FileStorageBackup http://www.plope.com/Members/chrism/repozo but neither have links to a source/repository. It also says here, that repozo is included with Plone, but not with Zope... h I find Zope to be super stable, with zero corruptions of any kind, and no need to ever restore a backup... but lightning may strike, and I've gotten away with poor backup disciplines long enough. A URL would be much appreciated. -Jon -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Where oh where is Repozo
Um, Where is the latest version of Repozo, the backup tool, kept? Is there a reason, that it's not included with the Zope install/utilities (at least the 2.7.x I'm using). I confess, I've been stopping my zope, and tar'ing the directories so now I want to clean up my act and use Repozo... and I'm having difficulty finding it in Google, Zope.org. BTW, there is an excellent explanation of Repozo in two places, http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/FileStorageBackup http://www.plope.com/Members/chrism/repozo but neither have links to a source/repository. It also says here, that repozo is included with Plone, but not with Zope... h I find Zope to be super stable, with zero corruptions of any kind, and no need to ever restore a backup... but lightning may strike, and I've gotten away with poor backup disciplines long enough. A URL would be much appreciated. -Jon -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] CPU architecture and Zope
Just reading along... At the OS view, would dual cores balance the Linux overhead on one CPU and python/zope on the other, based on resources required. In other words, would the second core allow python to go faster, not having to deal with the various OS and distro tools (apache, squid, pound, mailman, etc.) overhead items. Does the mechanism governing multiple cores separate/allocate processes by resources needed? ... and does a python/zope process get evaluated as a "heavyweight" process, maybe getting allocated the lion's share of a single core. It seems that the whole world of multiple cores CPUs will be upon us very quickly now. The ZEO Server on one, ZEO Client on the other is a good answer. Just wondering if there are any other advantages of python being the way it is, in the mix. Great discussion for me, thanks, -Jon Alec Mitchell wrote: On 1/9/06, Andreas Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --On 9. Januar 2006 21:38:15 -0800 David H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi list, Im just wondering what the wisdom is about Zope performance and various CPU types. I'm running Zope on Linux (Ubuntu). I notice that Dell is selling a "dual-core" Pentium unit. But I have no idea if something like "dual core" is advantegous to Zope, python execution or one's favorite RDMS. A single Python process also a multi-threaded Python application can never run on multiple CPUs. Multiple CPUs, cores etc. together with Python make only sense when you run multiple Python processes e.g. multiple ZEO clients or ZEO client + ZEO server. For standalone Zope instance dual-core CPU give you nothing. I'm probably stating the obvious here, but a ZEO server + at least one ZEO client is generally advisable at the very least for debugging purposes, in which case dual CPUs/cores can be somewhat helpful (though the zeo server is not terribly processor intesive in my experience). Even with a non-ZEO setup, dual cores could obviously be helpful if you were running other cpu intensive processes like an RDBMS on the same system. Alec ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Leave the ivory tower now!
Do we know Is the Zope community growing or shrinking? Is there even a problem? Is Python growing or shrinking? Is there any connection? Zope.org seems to have been built as a community center, with accounts/ 3rd party add-ons etc. Is it working. RubyonRails.com has none of this functionality. Perhaps a GetZope.com site, similar to GetFirefox.com is in order, that provides a very small amount of "get started" information. Two Cents, -Jon Gert Thiel wrote: Dear friends. A few days ago the Ruby on Rails development team published the 1.0 release. At that occasion the Zope fans are reminded how far Zope fell far behind in terms of attention and recognized widespread. Python has batteries included. Zope is a power plant. But still everyone speaks of Django, Turbogears or Ruby on Rails. Even if they talk about the shortcommings of J2EE. Some of the best content management systems are build using Zope 2. CPS, ZMS and my favourite: Plone. And Typo3 gets even more attention. Why? Because we failed. We aren't marketing Zope at all. Have a look at zope.org. Do you think, that any CEO will stay at that site more than 10 seconds? Have a look at rubyonrails.org and cry. Zope 3.2 will be delivered soon. Have any look at zope.org ‹ where isŠ You got it. To a certain extent Zope 2 was attracting like a nuclear power plant. Whenever I start programming with Zope 2, latest for Plone, I can feel its power before even diving into it much, but I'm alarmed of its pitfalls at the very same time. So all my hopes are with Zope 3 which enabled me without hurting me yet. Will I get a truly powerful replacement for J2EE? Here are my ideas to make Zope 3 the most successful framework ever: Make them love Zope at the very first look: * Make installing Zope a double-click or one-command-only experience and * offer a 30 minutes tutorial of programming an useful application including an audiovisual show for an appetizer that offers a feeling of success. Bribe the managers: * Include Microsoft SQL-Server and Oracle relational database access. * Include powerful XML processing facilities and * include everything necessary and useful to build or use web services. Enable the beginners: * Easy to read and understand ‹ but still complete and current ‹ documentation is a must. * Avoid cluttering everything about Zope across articles, blogs, chats, mailing lists and wikis. Keep everything available and searchable at one central location. Remember: The power of Ruby on Rails doesn't come from either Ruby or the framework but from its community. And ‹ of course ‹ make Zope 4 even better. Regards, Gert http://www.gertthiel.de/blog/drafts/ivory-tower/ ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Java vs Zope
I always found the bytecode aspect of Java annoying... having to compile without the advantages in speed of a compiled language. Interesting, though, I host a WebSphere 6.0 app in Java... The Websphere install is littered with python files, for install/setup purposes... hmm two cents, -Jon David Johnson wrote: Andreas and others, Thanks for your response. I think my confusion lies in the idea that not everyone uses Java (though they may talk about it). I do not see everyone using Java. In fact I see very few large or successful companies using it. Even Sun and IBM develop their core components in C/C++. GNU, Linux, MySQL ... all C/C++. Ditto Oracle. In my market, we've been able to easily outpace and perform competitors going the J2EE route, and for a lot less money. In regards to web development, the list of technologies being implemented is overwhelming. It took extensive research to find and settle down to Zope. In my research, I found it took 57 complex files to develop a simple and ugly J2EE application to display a list of cars from a database (various Ant, xml, jar, war and other files). In Zope this can be done in 2 objects, and it integrates nicely with apps like Dreamweaver, so it looks and feels nice. We often find the need to integrate with other products and when we do, either the product's manufacturer a) is interested in market share, or b) they avoid change. For companies who are into market share they often use a greatest common denominator technology such as C, Perl, or HTTP. Java does not play nicely here. Companies who avoid change usually do so because they produce large-scale or small market systems, and change is too expensive and hard. In this case Java, again, does not play nicely. In Java it seems that not only do you have to figure how to interface with others, you have to figure out how to do it in Java as well (which is not trivial). Zope and Python seem better at translating thoughts into code, and doing so with the right balance of object orientation, and scalability. Zope provides a solid framework for development and scalability, while providing mechanisms to include and deploy very custom and specific features in a standardized way. -Original Message- From: Andreas Jung [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 4:03 PM To: David Johnson; zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] Java vs Zope --On 1. Januar 2006 14:04:16 -0600 David Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Good afternoon. I am new to Zope and I am excited about its possibilities. We are an ASP and plan to use Zope to improve our development process. I see that many people use J2EE based environments. Does anyone understand why? Why would anyone use Java? Because everyone uses Java! When you work in an environment were Java is already used then you usually use Java instead of Python. And there are environments where Python is possibly the better solution. You just need to compare the efforts to integrate an existing environment with your solution...then you choose your tools. -aj ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: just curious: zope and ingres
A blessing, CA is a bottom-feeder, and I'm glad they're not associated with Zope. -Jon Vlada Macek wrote: [At 13.12.2005 01:17, Alexander Limi kindly sent the following quotation.] On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:33:25 -0800, Sascha Ottolski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I remembered reading about the plans to create RDBMS integration as alternative to ZODB about 1,5 years ago: http://www.zope.com/about_us/press_releases/ca_and_zope.html Doesn't seem to be alive anymore, right? CA seems to have dropped both Ingres and their involvement with Zope, so I believe that would be right, yes. What a surprise when the people involved are not willing to proof-read at least the title of the annoucements they make. };-] -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope workflow for change management
Could be... Plone is a product built on top of Zope, and includes a component called CMF (content management framework) CMF is available as a Zope extension without Plone, as well. CMF is the workflow piece of the puzzle. The piece you seek. I'd research CMF to see if you need the overhead of Plone or not. There are Plone and CMF mailing lists which could give you a more detailed resource. -Jon Cyr Brant Winter wrote: Hi all - this is my first post to this list, and I am not quite sure if I am in the right spot ! I am looking at building up a change management / release management tool that woudl be hosted online in some form, that has its workflow built around solid ITIL foundations. I have seen Plone in th epast, and have installed it and played around, but I am wondering if Zope / Plone is the tool for this job ? I am basically drawn to Zope because of its ability to create workflows, but I am not sure if this is exatly the right tool. Basically I want to be able to create a basic change management workflow, but have different models depending on what type of change is occuring, ie software release as opposed to putting a new server in a live production rack. Each of these 'changes' would require a different workflow model. Is Zope / Plone for me ? ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] about mouse interactions..
For Instant access to _javascript_
resources, I've used the pay Safari online book service at O'Reilly,
they have up-to-date _javascript_ titles, and maybe some AJAX
(Asynchronous _javascript_ and XML) titles as well.
The specific functionality that you mentioned is very difficult, drag
selection, drag and drop, and target behavior. Multiplied by the
number of supported browsers Heavy duty client-side AJAX or Flash,
I would think and an awful lot of bleeding edge browser coaxing.
And when that's done, then have it talk to Zope.
Either way, you won't get those answers here. Find a Advanced
_javascript_ or AJAX list for best results.
Good Luck,
Jon Cyr
Ref: http://safari.ora.com
Jonathan wrote:
You seem to be mixing together
client-side activity ('mouse selection') and server-side activity
('query the zodb'?). You will need
to separate these two activities: use _javascript_ for the client side
and build a normal form-based request which is then submitted to a zope
method (dtml/script/external method) which processes the fields from
the form request and returns some object(s)? from the zodb.
hth
Jonathan
-
Original Message -
From:
Allen
Huang
To:
Zope
Sent:
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject:
[Zope] about mouse interactions..
Hi...
This is probably not much about zope, but I want to do make a
web page that does mouse drag query that query the zodb for information.
For example... I have a picture and I want my mouse to be able
to point a single point or drag a selection box and what ever is
selected will make a new web page and with table about its information.
Would anyone give me some pointers about how I could
accomplish this? what docs or books I should read?
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo!
Shopping
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Re: [Zope] add multiple images to zope folder
I once started down that path with FTP. I use HomeSite, as well, to save via FTP. I investigated a Linux package called Delegate, that would provide a rev-proxy for FTP over SSL, in which normal FTP clients with SSL could transfer files. www.delegate.org I didn't continue, priorities and all. Maybe a WebDAV client over SSL would be easier, depends on your needs. -Jon Chris Purves wrote: On 04/12/05, Jonathan Cyr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Use FTP, Open Internet Explorer, type ftp://zopeusername:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:8021/directory/ and drag and drop from explorer to ie, zope assigns them as images automatically. Any FTP client will do, Filezilla is nice/free, as well. (filezilla.sourceforge.net) Substitute 8021 with your Zope's FTP port. I use it regularly for uploading website graphical components, a nice shortcut. That looks like exactly what I want, but is it possible to make the connection secure? -- Take care, eh. Chris ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] add multiple images to zope folder
Use FTP, Open Internet Explorer, type ftp://zopeusername:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:8021/directory/ and drag and drop from explorer to ie, zope assigns them as images automatically. Any FTP client will do, Filezilla is nice/free, as well. (filezilla.sourceforge.net) Substitute 8021 with your Zope's FTP port. I use it regularly for uploading website graphical components, a nice shortcut. HTH -Jon Chris Purves wrote: Hello, Is there a way to add multiple images to a zope folder instead of adding one at a time? -- Take care, eh. Chris ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Creating a DTM Document in a variable folder.
You might want to use index_html
rather than index.html in this example. The dot means other things in
Python, and index.html is a carryover from filesystem webservers. My
impression is that the acquisition mechanism doesn't like ids with a
dot, in some circumstances.
Not trying to nit-pick, just got hung-up on that item myself once
before.
...or maybe that's not true anymore and has been allowed for...
HTH,
-Jon
Peter Bengtsson wrote:
folder = getattr(context, 'b')
adder = folder.manage_addProduct['OFSP'].methodAdd
adder('index.html', 'Some title')
That creates it with default content. To change it you'll have to call
dtmlm = getattr(context, 'index.html')
dtmlm.manage_edit("bla bla bla bla bla", 'Same title')
# or
f = open('/tmp/foobar.html')
dtmlm.manage_upload(f)
On 11/25/05, Martin Koekenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello,
I don't have any Python experience yet, so who has a solution for this
'problem'.
Example:
I 've 3 folders a, b & c.
I want to create a dtml document in a folder by a form. The folder is a
variable in my form.
The formis no problem, the form action is no problem. The python script to
craete that document is my problem.
How can I create a DTM Document in a variable container ?
Regards,
Martin Koekenberg
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Re: [Zope] convert DTML Document to a folder.
So, you'd like to turn an independent entry into a container to hold more info? -Jon Martin Koekenberg wrote: The DTML Documents are userinfo documents. I want to create a photoorder form and generate a dtml document with that users orders. I want to place that in his user folder. Martin Koekenberg -Original Message- From: Andreas Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Martin Koekenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, zope@zope.org Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:42:35 +0100 Subject: Re: [Zope] convert DTML Document to a folder. --On 16. November 2005 15:35:14 +0100 Martin Koekenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello, Is it possible to convert a DTML Document to a folder, Both with properties ? I use Zope 2.8.4. Converting a piece of textual content to a folder makes no sense. WHat are you trying to do??? -aj ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] FYI: Zope 3 Book on Safari
FYI, I noticed that O'Reilly just added Steven Richter's Zope 3 book to their Safari service. I now read all my Safari-based manuals on a Tablet PC, rather than stocking my bookshelves with the appropriate resources at $30-50 bucks a pop. Even though I'd already bought the Zope 3 book, I think it's great that I don't need to have it with me now. I'll probably donate it to the local library as I did with the rest of my bookshelf resources. O'Reilly, for some reason, doesn't seem to be the biggest fan of Zope or Python, so it's nice to see this addition to the service. http://safari.ora.com -Jon Cyr -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] How do I Create a empty file in a ZClass object?
That seems to be the problem, I find ZClasses to fill a role for intermediate skill level developers to create rich objects and applications. The replacement at this difficulty level hasn't appeared yet. My impression is that ZClasses will continue in Zope 2.x, but it hasn't been enhanced or touched at all. The ZClasses implementation seems to be solid. There are shortcomings with ZClasses when you try to do too much with them. Some of the Zope 2 books have nice examples are how and what you can do with ZClasses. That said, I picked up Stephen Richter's book on Zope 3, very nicely done... Zope 3 seems to be maturing pretty fast, and some/most of the new features have been adapted to the older Zope 2 architecture (a project called Five). If you're going to make a large investment in time... and you're just getting started, I'd pick up this book, and see if you can handle the difficulty level of Zope 3, at this point. Zope 3 technologies seem to be "the New Way". Although advanced, Zope 3 seems to be the result of a lot of self-examination of the triumphs and mistakes of Zope 2... a few things I picked out an re-thought organization scheme of naming, libraries, etc., the use of interfaces/contracts Generally cleaner and more pythonic, allowing much more power and flexibility... removing much of the mystery of Zope 2 inner workings and naming conventions. As for DTML, the old way, DTML is a tag-based way to create web interfaces, similar to CFML, PHP, ASP... inline tagging around and within the HTML. The new way, is markedly different, and difficult to get your head around at first, called ZPT (Zope Page Templates). ZPT uses XML and an attribute system to embed commands in an HTML page, without ruining your ability to use WYSIWYG editors like Dreamweaver, etc. ZPT is highly regarded here on this list, and probably will win out in the end. But there are enough DMTL folks, that DTML will be in Zope 3 until ZPT takes over. There is a Zope 3 mailing list, that might be helpful. Just my observations and impressions, -Jon Allen Huang wrote: Thanks a million... it works great... but when you said that ZClasses and DTML are the old way... what is the new way... I just started using Zope so I not quiet up to date... would you mind fill me in so I could look it up? */Jonathan Cyr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: Hey, As you'll hear shortly, ZClasses & DTML are the old way to do things, and are not highly recommended, at this point. Having said that, I've had success using them. To Add a ZClass into anything folderish, I've used... where WWAudioClip was the name of the Product and its ZClass I place this in a DTML Method that is at the point I wish the ZClass object to be created, a target if you wish. Works fine. This will call the "Add" method in your ZClass. To Add a regular file object somewhere, I've used.. Parameters Zope ID to be set, Contents (string, whatever), and Zope Title, and mime-type (optional) Google "Zope manage_addFile" for more info HTH, Jon Allen Huang wrote: I want to create a empty file in a ZClass object when I first created the ZClass object. How do I do that using DTML?? Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. <http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFqODRtdXQ4BF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDOTY2ODgxNjkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWwtZm9vdGVyBHNsawNmYw--/SIG=110oav78o/**http%3a//farechase.yahoo.com/> ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. <http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFqODRtdXQ4BF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDOTY2ODgxNjkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWwtZm9vdGVyBHNsawNmYw--/SIG=110oav78o/**http%3a//farechase.yahoo.com/> -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jonathan Cyr http://www.cyr.info http://www.weddingweblog.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] How do I Create a empty file in a ZClass object?
Hey, As you'll hear shortly, ZClasses & DTML are the old way to do things, and are not highly recommended, at this point. Having said that, I've had success using them. To Add a ZClass into anything folderish, I've used... where WWAudioClip was the name of the Product and its ZClass I place this in a DTML Method that is at the point I wish the ZClass object to be created, a target if you wish. Works fine. This will call the "Add" method in your ZClass. To Add a regular file object somewhere, I've used.. Parameters Zope ID to be set, Contents (string, whatever), and Zope Title, and mime-type (optional) Google "Zope manage_addFile" for more info HTH, Jon Allen Huang wrote: I want to create a empty file in a ZClass object when I first created the ZClass object. How do I do that using DTML?? Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] FileUpload get_size() method?
Thanks for your time, much appreciated. -Jon Tino Wildenhain wrote: Am Dienstag, den 25.10.2005, 16:42 -0400 schrieb Jonathan Cyr: I think I get it, except... What's the meaning of 1<<20, I'm not familar with that operator. How would I adjust it for different sizes? Well, you could (and should!) study the python documentation. But this one is only an example. You can write the maximum however you want, as literal value: 100 or 1e+6 or 1000*1000 or 10**6 ... If you have an imagination of what value you want, just write it there :-) -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] FileUpload get_size() method?
I think I get it, except...
What's the meaning of 1<<20, I'm not familar with that operator.
How would I adjust it for different sizes?
... as I instantly regret blowing-off bit operators, as "something I
wont need"...
-Jon
Tino Wildenhain wrote:
Am Dienstag, den 25.10.2005, 14:43 -0400 schrieb Jonathan Cyr:
Hello,
Does a FileUpload object have a get_size() method?
I'd like to limit the size of an uploaded file before commiting it to
the ZODB. I've been Googling for a while. Is it handled differently on
a FileUpload object.
I'm planning to process with a Python Script.
Could someone point me in the right direction?
The fileupload object is simply a file. (can be cStringIO,
can be tempfile - depending on size)
Best is to do so:
maxsize=1<<20 # 1MB
fu=context.REQUEST.get('fileupload')
fu.seek(maxsize)
if fu.read(1):
raise OverflowError("File too big!") # or something like that
fu.seek(0) # rewind to start
filefolder.manage_addFile(...)
This avoids loading the whole file into memory to find out.
HTH
Tino
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[Zope] FileUpload get_size() method?
Hello, Does a FileUpload object have a get_size() method? I'd like to limit the size of an uploaded file before commiting it to the ZODB. I've been Googling for a while. Is it handled differently on a FileUpload object. I'm planning to process with a Python Script. Could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks In Advance, -Jon Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: need help python-zope
Hello, You may want to send questions to the Zope list at zope@zope.org. You can join the list at http://www.zope.org/Resources/MailingLists The authentication box in Zope by default is part of the standard HTTP Authentication mechanism, and is available to most web servers. Very little can be changed using this standard User Folder. There are many replacement User Folder objects available for extended functionality. Check out the User Folders in Zope.org's Product section. Here's the latest version of the Zope Book at http://www.plope.com/Books/2_7Edition Hope this helps, -Jon ajit mote wrote: Hello, i am new to zope. i want to access authentication dialog box which come initialy (when ZMI link is clicked). i want to know from where this authentication dialog box is created and opened Hoping u u'stand my problem . Thanks No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.10/119 - Release Date: 10/4/2005 -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Help with virtual hosting Zope on different ports
Unless you need some special
Apache functionality, you may want to look and the Pound Rev-Proxy/Load
Balancer at http://www.apsis.ch/pound. I find it much
easier than getting involved with apache, it's lightweight, secure and
designed with Zope in mind.
two cents,
-Jon.
Michael Sanborn wrote:
I have two Zope versions running behind Apache 1.3 (on FreeBSD 4)
using different ports on the same server. The only domain name
currently assigned to the server is for a Squishdot site on the older
Zope version (2.5.1) that I haven't been able to upgrade, and I don't
want to spend the time figuring it out right now. The newer Zope
version (2.8.1) has a Plone site that I would like to run as a domain
of its own.
Can someone help me figure out the combination of Apache rewrite rules
and Zope/Plone products I would need to use to accomplish this?
Just to try to make it clear, what I want is:
request: oldsite.com
result: myserver:8093/oldsite
request: newsite.com
result: myserver:8580/newsite
This is possible, isn't it?
If it helps, here are the existing rewrite rules:
ServerName oldsite.com
ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
DocumentRoot /u2/oldsite
ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ /u2/oldsite.cgi-bin/
RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP:Authorization} ^(.*)
RewriteRule ^/(oldsite/)?(.*) /usr/local/Zope/Zope.cgi/oldsite/$2
[e=HTTP_CGI_AUTHORIZATION:%2,t=application/x-httpd-cgi,l]
ErrorLog /u2/oldsite.admin/oldsite.errors
TransferLog /u2/oldsite.admin/oldsite.access
www.oldsite.com>
ServerName www.oldsite.com
ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
DocumentRoot /u2/oldsite
ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ /u2/oldsite.cgi-bin/
RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP:Authorization} ^(.*)
RewriteRule ^/(oldsite/)?(.*) /usr/local/Zope/Zope.cgi/oldsite/$2
[e=HTTP_CGI_AUTHORIZATION:%2,t=application/x-httpd-cgi,l]
ErrorLog /u2/oldsite.admin/oldsite.errors
TransferLog /u2/oldsite.admin/oldsite.access
Thanks in advance for any assistance,
Michael Sanborn
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Re: [Zope] Using Structured Text and HTML-quote together for RSS 2.0
Hi Peter, Happy to have the choice, don't get me wrong. I found DTML very easy, I'm old school and generate all of my HTML/CSS by hand. In addition to CSS, I've found it pretty good for inserting items into _javascript_, Applet and Embed elements. I find that I'm attuned to a tag system that jumps out at me when reading The ZPT stuff wasn't as easy to parse visually for me but if you're a Dreamweaver user or something, I'm sure its a godsend. I can move quite fast in DTML, and my ability to parse it visually is key in my productivity. Funny, I bought Zope's approach "hook, line & sinker", early on, with the various Zope books published with DTML being a major piece of the Zope puzzle. DTML made sense to me then, still does. -Jon Peter Bengtsson wrote: Chris was merely suggesting. Technically ZPT is probably a better choice but DTML is pretty good too. On many of my projects that I started a longer time ago the less important templates were written in DTML because to me it was faster to write and the crucial ones that needed to last longer and might be edited by more people I used ZPT. Don't forget, for writing SQL statements and CSS sheets, DTML rocks! This proves why DTML won't go away as a supported templating "language". On 9/8/05, Jonathan Cyr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thanks... but go easy. I have to choose which features of Zope to learn and use, based on a much larger criteria than I can present here. I do not wish to mix ZPT and DTML in my project... I had chosen DTML, before ZPT was mature... It may be better, but I don't care for now... when I'm able to re-assess which pieces of Zope to use in a future project, I may well choose it. As a professional programmer, you must see the advantage in adhering to a project's standards and specs, as to managing the code in the project. That is why I needed to use DTML for my RSS. I have chosen my mix for this project, and benefit much more from my standards docs much more than any single feature like ZPT can provide. As far as I know, DTML is being supported into the future, and my hand will not be forced. I appreciate all the hard work in developing ZPT for the community, but it's just not for me, yet... probably be used in my first Zope 3 project instead. BTW, the solution presented by Peter hit the nail on the head... I have a very nice RSS setup now for my Zope app. Thanks, -Jon Cyr Chris Withers wrote: Jonathan Cyr wrote: I am constructing an RSS 2.0 feed for a zope app. I am creating the rss.xml file in a DTML method. Use ZPT, it's much better suited to this... to include in the feed is a structured-text paragraph. To use any XHTML in a feed you must "html_quote" all of the extended characters for it to work. What do you mean by "extended characters" here? So I wish to do something like This obviously doesn't work, (would have been cool if it did tho). How do I access the structured text and html quote translation mechanisms in an expr tag. Something like ZPT does html quoting by default, so provided summary.structured_text() does what yo uexpect it to, you could just do: That said, I'd pretty sure RSS feeds CAN include html, and it doesn't need to be quoted... ps- I don't use ZPT, DTML was chose a while back, and would rather keep Well, un-choose it, especially for something new and isolated like an RSS feed... the RSS in a DTML Method rather than a python script. The layers are getting pretty hairy, don't want to add indention to it Huh?! Chris -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Using Structured Text and HTML-quote together for RSS 2.0
Dude, I appreciate the amount of effort that you contribute to the community... but that said... you really are quite rude and obnoxious hence the "Go easy" warning. Your skills in dealing with people pale in comparison to your Zope prowess. Talking down to people doesn't build community... no matter how right you are. Building a community isn't about code, or rightousness... it's about people... consider the effects of your tone on this list. If you need to be right that badly, have at it You're right, DTML sucks, ZPT and whatever else is the obvious solution... my issue is solved... thank you so much for your time. Bait taken, with apologies to all, -Jon Chris Withers wrote: Jonathan Cyr wrote: I have to choose which features of Zope to learn and use, based on a much larger criteria than I can present here. I do not wish to mix ZPT and DTML in my project... I had chosen DTML, before ZPT was mature... It may be better, but I don't care for now... when I'm able to re-assess which pieces of Zope to use in a future project, I may well choose it. Okay, whatever... As a professional programmer, you must see the advantage in adhering to a project's standards and specs, as to managing the code in the project. That is why I needed to use DTML for my RSS. Uh, no, as a professional programmer, I use the best tools for the job, and don't stand by mistakes I made before, like choosing DTML, especially when the two can co-exist quite happilly... I have chosen my mix for this project, and benefit much more from my standards docs much more than any single feature like ZPT can provide. Okay, whatever... As far as I know, DTML is being supported into the future, and my hand will not be forced. Then your hand will be burned, enjoy ;-) Chris -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Using Structured Text and HTML-quote together for RSS 2.0
A ha... thanks for the tip. -Jon Florent Guillaume wrote: Jonathan Cyr wrote: That's the ticket. You're right the CDATA solution is much better than html-quote'ing everything. Many thanks, -Jon Peter Bengtsson wrote: Create a python script called rssFormatter(text):: from Products.PythonScripts.standard import structured_text, html_quote return html_quote(structured_text(text)) Which you use later as I think for some of my RSS feeds I use CDATA, so _my_ rssFormatter() script looks something like this:: return "" % text The advantage with CDATA is that you won't need to html quote things. Which is not really true, you still have to find a way to deal with your string if it contains ']]>' which is the end marker for CDATA. Florent -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Using Structured Text and HTML-quote together for RSS 2.0
Thanks... but go easy. I have to choose which features of Zope to learn and use, based on a much larger criteria than I can present here. I do not wish to mix ZPT and DTML in my project... I had chosen DTML, before ZPT was mature... It may be better, but I don't care for now... when I'm able to re-assess which pieces of Zope to use in a future project, I may well choose it. As a professional programmer, you must see the advantage in adhering to a project's standards and specs, as to managing the code in the project. That is why I needed to use DTML for my RSS. I have chosen my mix for this project, and benefit much more from my standards docs much more than any single feature like ZPT can provide. As far as I know, DTML is being supported into the future, and my hand will not be forced. I appreciate all the hard work in developing ZPT for the community, but it's just not for me, yet... probably be used in my first Zope 3 project instead. BTW, the solution presented by Peter hit the nail on the head... I have a very nice RSS setup now for my Zope app. Thanks, -Jon Cyr Chris Withers wrote: Jonathan Cyr wrote: I am constructing an RSS 2.0 feed for a zope app. I am creating the rss.xml file in a DTML method. Use ZPT, it's much better suited to this... to include in the feed is a structured-text paragraph. To use any XHTML in a feed you must "html_quote" all of the extended characters for it to work. What do you mean by "extended characters" here? So I wish to do something like This obviously doesn't work, (would have been cool if it did tho). How do I access the structured text and html quote translation mechanisms in an expr tag. Something like ZPT does html quoting by default, so provided summary.structured_text() does what yo uexpect it to, you could just do: That said, I'd pretty sure RSS feeds CAN include html, and it doesn't need to be quoted... ps- I don't use ZPT, DTML was chose a while back, and would rather keep Well, un-choose it, especially for something new and isolated like an RSS feed... the RSS in a DTML Method rather than a python script. The layers are getting pretty hairy, don't want to add indention to it Huh?! Chris -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Using Structured Text and HTML-quote together for RSS 2.0
That's the ticket. You're right the CDATA solution is much better than html-quote'ing everything. Many thanks, -Jon Peter Bengtsson wrote: Create a python script called rssFormatter(text):: from Products.PythonScripts.standard import structured_text, html_quote return html_quote(structured_text(text)) Which you use later as I think for some of my RSS feeds I use CDATA, so _my_ rssFormatter() script looks something like this:: return "" % text The advantage with CDATA is that you won't need to html quote things. On 9/8/05, Jonathan Cyr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello, I can't seem to find this anywhere. I am constructing an RSS 2.0 feed for a zope app. I am creating the rss.xml file in a DTML method. One of the information elements I wish to include in the feed is a structured-text paragraph. To use any XHTML in a feed you must "html_quote" all of the extended characters for it to work. So I wish to do something like This obviously doesn't work, (would have been cool if it did tho). How do I access the structured text and html quote translation mechanisms in an expr tag. Something like Thanks in advance, still googling for it. -Jon ps- I don't use ZPT, DTML was chose a while back, and would rather keep the RSS in a DTML Method rather than a python script. The layers are getting pretty hairy, don't want to add indention to it -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Using Structured Text and HTML-quote together for RSS 2.0
Hello, I can't seem to find this anywhere. I am constructing an RSS 2.0 feed for a zope app. I am creating the rss.xml file in a DTML method. One of the information elements I wish to include in the feed is a structured-text paragraph. To use any XHTML in a feed you must "html_quote" all of the extended characters for it to work. So I wish to do something like html_quote> This obviously doesn't work, (would have been cool if it did tho). How do I access the structured text and html quote translation mechanisms in an expr tag. Something like Thanks in advance, still googling for it. -Jon ps- I don't use ZPT, DTML was chose a while back, and would rather keep the RSS in a DTML Method rather than a python script. The layers are getting pretty hairy, don't want to add indention to it -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Python editor in zope?
Two Cents, I use HomeSite 5.5 with my zope daily... although it's not suited directly for python, it works great for DTML, HTML, CSS, and even the python scripts. One warning, Zope refuses the save through FTP of a non-well-formed DTML file, and Zope's built in Python debugger for Python Scripts is ignored on FTP saves from Homesite. But the save to FTP aspect, works great with disparate files in the Zope ZODB. You probably could use any editor you'd like with a tool like WebDrive, a FTP through Drive letter utility. -Jon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sean Dunn wrote: I’m new to Zope, and am getting tired of using textarea’s to edit my Python/[HD]TML code. My space-bar thumb is starting to get an unnatural twitch, from hitting it multiple times at the beginning of every line of code. J I’ve installed TinyMCE and Epoz, and they’re both great for documents.. But they’re both useless for writing code. Instead of writing my own skin for TinyMCE (and reinventing the wheel), are there any pure _javascript_/CSS code editors that can do search/replace, block indents, and (this would be amazing) Python syntax highlighting? Thanks, Sean ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/85 - Release Date: 8/30/2005 -- Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] DTML in Zope 2 vs Zope 3
Damn users, using all this imperfect software. These Kids Today! ;-) Easy Big Fella, Whooa. -Jon Chris Withers wrote: Tino Wildenhain wrote: Unfortunately Plone is still a bad example for ZPT. It is getting better but still it has a lot of code and definition in the templates. Maybe AT would be a way out. AT? As in ArcheTypes? You ARE kidding right? I've never seen such bad code, and in particular, abuse of ZPT in my entire life... And DTML sux, you wanna use it, fine, that says something about you. Use ZClasses, Plone, AT and XUF at the same time while you're at it. Why not dig out LoginManager and ZPatterns too, just for good measure? Hell, why not just do us all a favour and switch to using Perl where you'll be s much happier, and everyone in the community will agree with you rather than trying to help you not shoot yourself in the foot ;-) cheers, Chris ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] DTML in Zope 2 vs Zope 3
I use DTML alot, I also code all my HTML/CSS by hand for control sake. If you use a Dreamweaver, et al, DTML requires tool tweaking, if it works at all. If you read HTML, and are aware of all of the browser quirks, DTML is quick and easy... New tags are easy, they stand out and quite common... ASP, PHP, Cold Fusion and more... and I found DTML to be a nicely thought out tagging extension of HTML. I keep my display logic in DTML and do scripting in PythonScripts. I never had a great reason to get into ZPT, it didn't add any value for me with my HTML background. Probably the 90/10 split as well. DTML works fine in Homesite. Never cared for the WYSIWIG tools. Two Cents, -Jon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Fischer wrote: I am just curious, why is DTML not good? It does 9 out of 10 things I want quite easily. From my perspective, I really dont want to learn new ways of doing things if this works. I also have no desire to do templating. I can see the need for it in a large development shop,but for me, a 1 guy operation, I have no desire to complicate things. DTML works so easy for me. I do use Python scripts here and there for small and odd things that would be difficult or impossible to do in DTML, but like I said, that's maybe only 10% max of the functionality that I need to provide. (probably 5-6%) Having to move everything in Python is a hassle that I dont plan on doing for a few years. I'll just keep using Zope 2. I'd also be curious to know from all you other developers, what percentage of tasks that you need to perform or functionality you need to provide can be provided simply with DTML? Like for me, I can do quickly and easily do 90% of what I need in DTML. Is DTML really that much harder to use? I understand the whole idea of separating the logic and the presentation, and I guess, is that part of the reason why DTML is not as good? But, for me, that separation is more complicated. DTML is easier for me. (partly because I know it) I dont know, DTML and the "everythings an object" concept in Zope are the very things that make Zope so attractive for a small time operator like me. I hate to see them deprecated just because it doesnt work for the larger companies out there. Of course, I may be totally ignorant about all this, huh? Anyway, starting to ramble... Thanks for any thoughts. Greg On 5/26/05, Hugo Ramos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yellow, I have the same feeling... Python should be the primary language used in Zope but let's not just cut the support on DTML leaving thousands out there spinning around and having to go into Python as fast as they can because DTML is not supported anymore. Changes take time... Getting used to Python only in Zope takes time... and I'm not so sure the employers out there are that kind allowing everybody to take time making the move. Regards Hugo On 5/26/05, David H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hugo Ramos wrote: Yellow, I think because of lazy people like me that prefer to use DTML in a fast way than go into a deep Python level to get the job done... I know that, eventually, one of these days I'll have to move on to Python only but until that day comes... DTML and a little bit of Python where needed suits me fine! :-) Regards Hugo Hugo, I figured as a dtml "wiz" a few years ago. Now I can't image doing w/out python scripts and suddenly DTML gives me a headache. I do think that DTML deserves a Hall of Fame Award but its time to move on. David -- Hugo Ramos - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Which sound I learn?
Seems to be the thousand dollar question. Depends on the scope of your project... Zope 2 is seasoned, and has lots of advantages... existing products, toolsets, list expertise, and user base. Better for the short-term time investment. Zope 3 seems to be the next big thing... benefitting greatly from the lessons-learned and problems of Zope 2. A very impressive concept for a longer investment period. Early-on in the maturity cycle. But, apparently, they are very different in execution, but similar in concept. I'm about halfway through the new Zope 3 book, its significantly different. It appears both versions will be around for years. Just the impressions that I've gotten from monitoring both lists. -Jon Cyr WeddingWeblog.com Ryan Smiderle wrote: I'm planning on making a website with Zope, and plan to do a lot of custumization. Should I learn Zope 2 or Zope 3? Thanks, -Ryan ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 4/25/2005 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: Zeo
FYI, Back during 2.6.x, I developed my whole system on a Windows Laptop, migrated to a Windows ZEO System, 1 client, 1 server. Then moved the ZEO client & server to Red Hat AS 2.1, and now finally to SuSE 9.0. The only differences for me were the steps in installing PIL (Python Imaging Library) on Linux vs. Windows. I had to wait to be more comfortable deploying on Linux, but Zope was obviously ready for Linux long before I was. If you can stay away from platform-dependent products, and their dependencies, (Photo Product & ImageMagick for one), you should be able to mix and match. The underlying python seems to facilitate this being a sort of intermediary compatibilty layer. My approach was to make sure every component and dependency was python based. Make sure to follow the directions for ZEO client/server compatibility, but those are python concerns. As for performance, I found Linux to be a large boost, especially when run without a GUI... the nature of the beast seems to lean toward Linux for good reason. The other item you'll find on the list, is that a ZEO configuration is much more stable and forgiving than the quite-stable stand-alone Zope. Even internal Zope routines run better in a ZEO setup. -Jon Cyr WeddingWeblog.com J Cameron Cooper wrote: ken wood wrote: I appreciate all the great tips on the cionfiguration issue. But my main issue is about infrastructure: Which hardware and / or operating systems can be used for a Zope/Zeo system. OS: pretty much any Unixish OS, though on anything but Linux, BSD, and Mac OS X (and maybe Solaris) you may run into some small problems. Also Windows. Hardware: anything with enough juice that can run your OS. Not very specific, I know, but it all depends on the performance you need. Less than .5 hits/sec and pretty much anything that'll load Zope will work. In particular, can I run a Zope instance on my Win32 server and have a Zeo Server/Clients on my Linux server? Sure. Why not? If I use all the same versions (Python, Zope and Plone and Products) can I use a multi-OS infratructure? Almost certainly. There are a few OS-specific Products, though, but that only matters on the ZEO client (except for storages, which only matter on the ZEO server.) You don't even have to match versions, save for sanity. ZEO is not a tightly-coupled communications protocol. Consider: Windows Python 2.3.4 Zope 2.7.5 ZEO client - SomeProduct 1.1 Linux Python 2.3.3 Zope 2.7.3 ZEO server - no products ZEO client - SomeProduct 1.0 ZEO command line client, for debugging This would work fine. All three ZEO clients would have the same data (that from the ZEO server), even with different software. --jcc ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zeo
Hi, There's a newer version of the Zope Book available at Plope.com. It's being updated, but the ZEO chapter seems to be current. http://www.plope.com/Books/2_7Edition It has a chapter on ZEO & Scalability. -Jon Cyr ken wood wrote: I've searched most site that have info on ZEO but have not been able to find answers to my questions on install for ZEO. Maybe someone on the list can help. I am running Zope 2.7 (with Plone site) on a Win'03 Server. I would like to run ZEO Server and Client on a Linux Server. The Linux Server also runs Zope 2.7 with a Plone site. Python version are 2.3.3. Is this a workable configuration ? Ultimate goal is to do away with the Win32 Server (at least for Zope). I have noticed that most documentation on ZEO is a bit dated (2003). Where can I get newer documentation or HowTo on ZEO? Thnaks in advance, ken wood ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] batch processing with CMFPhotoAlbum
I think the Silva product has that feature, if I remember correctly... perhaps there's a clue there. -Jon Malthe Borch wrote: Hello list, --- In the sake of usability, I'd like to offer my users the ability to upload a compressed archive (i.e. zip og tarball) of photos, so that uploading a roll of film isn't a days work, but rather two or three clicks. Obviously, there still would be a need to do a group-rename afterwards, but the idea is pretty solid I think. I'll want to use the standard way of adding a photo, only also allow for archives in the submission process. Would anyone care to collaborate or share ideas on such a patch? I assume it would be useful with other media as well. \malthe ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?
Thank You for giving me a
timeframe for this stuff. 4 to 6 years is indeed a long time. That
would, in effect triple the lifespan of my project, and be far more
reasonable.
It was the "yeah, dump it today" remarks that set me off. These
remarks are shortsighted at best, and harmful to Zope's PR at worst.
Thanks for the response, I will contribute where I can.
-Jon
Dieter Maurer wrote:
Jonathan Cyr wrote at 2005-4-6 16:06 -0400:
... just show me how under-represented that beginner and intermediate
Zope developers use this list... and then I think, perhaps there aren't
any, just me and a few others... and if that's the case, Zope's screwed,
and the horse I rode in on.
Do not worry too much!
Jim proposed to keep ZClasses alive until (at least) Zope 2.10.
And he asks whether there is enough interest to keep them longer...
If the Zope 2 releases progress in the same speed seen recently,
then Zope 2.10 will come in 4 to 6 years. That's a lot of time.
Of course, it is planned that future release cycles are much shorter
(one release every 6 months) but I do not yet buy that this will
indeed happen. Almost all releases were planned much earlier
than they happened.
And, we can keep ZClasses alive, at least until the next major
"Persistency" shakeup (after Jim made them working again for
the current "Persistency" shakeup) -- even when they are no longer
in the core.
In fact, I have had ten times more problems with Archetypes (which
I use now) than with ZClasses (which I used formerly).
It is true (and sad) that there are no unit tests for ZClasses
but ZClasses just broke twice in the past across releases
and the community quickly found
workarounds. These fixes were found much faster than those
for the security problems which were introduced from time to
time into Zope through security shakeups -- despite the fact
that there are unit tests for the security subsystem.
Thus, the right approach (in my view) is that all users
of ZClasses tell Jim, that ZClasses are used and interesting.
ZClasses may nevertheless get deprecated but probably kept
longer then Zope 2.10 unless they cause major problems.
For new projects, you should investigate the new options.
Product development will get much simpler with Zope3 technology
(and its schemas and views). Currently, there is no TTW
("Through The Web") development in Zope3 land, but that is planned.
In about 2 to 4 years, we may have new ZClass like
functionality implemented with Zope3 technology.
And I am quite confident that the old ZClasses will live til
then...
And so here's the confession... "Hello, I'm Jon... I've used Zope for 2
years, and I can't help others program high-level Python OOP
tools/platform resources in a propriety web content management server.
I only can support their efforts when the occasional mailing list
opportunities present themselves."
That's fine. Continue with this support!
Do not worry too much about ZClasses. They will stay
for a significant time because Jim plans to take the next
major hurdle (thank you, Jim!).
After that, probably only small changes will
be necessary -- as in the past. We, the ZClass users, can
manage these minor changes -- as we did in the past.
___
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Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?
Yoohoo, ZClasses are not an expert technology to use, they are an introduction to Zope... Just because I use a thing, doesn't mean I can support/maintain a thing. I can read the list, and try to help folks with questions that I've experienced... that's the support that can be offered at my skill level. If that's not enough... fine... drop ZClasses, then DTML (you know, its next)... and all the folks in this boat with me. ZC should decide whether the benefits of ZClasses for low-end developers match against the hurdles to keeping it with the newer Zope releases. If they don't see a need for this skill-level type of tool in Zope's feature list, they will pay down the road... Growth is king, even for Zope, who grew this platform? Growth means newbies, right? What elements got Zope to where it is? Could ZClasses be on that list? Why? And seeing comments like... - "Move to Zope Python Products" - you cant see the skill differences between OOP & Zope's API vs. ZClasses - "Use the Archetypes/CMF/Plone setup" - UML training? the CMF API and Plone underpinnings, easy? - "Maintain it yourself then" - Update very slick code within Zope's flexible and aging API, with ZODB API too? Maintain it...Yeah sure, hows this afternoon. ... just show me how under-represented that beginner and intermediate Zope developers use this list... and then I think, perhaps there aren't any, just me and a few others... and if that's the case, Zope's screwed, and the horse I rode in on. And so here's the confession... "Hello, I'm Jon... I've used Zope for 2 years, and I can't help others program high-level Python OOP tools/platform resources in a propriety web content management server. I only can support their efforts when the occasional mailing list opportunities present themselves." -Jon Cyr, Intermediate Zope Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andreas Jung wrote: --On Dienstag, 5. April 2005 16:38 Uhr -0400 Jake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And that is probably the best arguement for keeping them around longer. We should get to the point: if some people depend on ZClasses then they should take over some responsibility in maintaining them in future releases. It can not be that a "feature" regarded as obsolete (from the majority) and almost unmaintained and untouched since ages holds up further releases. I agree with Jim that they should be officially deprecated - means they could be removed in Zope 2.10. We could leave them longer if they should work in further releases without further work. If there are serious problems in further releases with ZClasses holding up a new release we should kick them. So if you depend on ZClasseslearn how they are implemented and maintain them in the future. But from the prospective of limited resource it is not reasonable to spend much time on ZClasses in the future. -aj ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.4 - Release Date: 4/6/2005 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] ClockServer 0.1 released
Am I getting this this is what Zron should have been? -Jon Chris McDonough wrote: On Fri, 2005-04-01 at 02:40, Chris Withers wrote: Chris McDonough wrote: It works by posing as a medusa server, and injects things that look like http requests into the publisher every so often. Isn't that effectively just creating a seperate thread though? No. It reuses the thread pool that the publisher already uses. - C ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?
Big mistake, IMHO, You have no replacement for intermediate developers... the only decent documentation, being the various books, have ZClasses throughout. Explain their absence to the newbies grokking for Zope enlightenment. Not everyone needs/wants development tools, some like the TTW management. The ZClass code seems to work flawlessly for me, never a problem. Who didn't cut their teeth with ZClasses? ZClasses are the reason I realized Zope was so powerful... Gee, how would I use an Object database???, the ZClass showed me... and later I added Zope Products to the mix with my ZClasses and created a viable business based on Zope. How are newbies going to make the leap to the newer Zope offerings without a ZClass to start with. This list is full of experts... and I appreciate the resource... but often the intermediate Zope programmer is plowed over... whether it's the topic of ZClasses or DTML, or any other way Zope used to do things. I have to choose each Zope technology carefully for the time investment. ZClasses were well worth my time measured with the whole picture... web design, flash programming, HTML, RSS, _javascript_, css, interactive marketing, systems administration, etc. I can't say that for some Zope technology offerings. I took the better part of 1 1/2 years developing a business based on Zope, heavily relying on ZClasses (and DTML), based on the choices in Zope presented at the time. I bought every book available, which pointed to ZClasses and DTML being THE way to go... I bought into the TTW strategy of managing web apps, and I like it... ZClasses fit the bill for me... I don't need the CMF, APE, ZPT, Plone projects... I need a simple way to deliver rich objects in an object database... ZClasses My business venture, based on Zope is just now starting to bear fruit... it would be a shame if the frantic pace of Zope's software lifecycle couldn't be patient enough for the real world's business lifecycles. I started developing on 2.6.1 and have been able to stay fairly current to 2.7.3, and stayed fairly pure, only products added were formulator and varimage... figured staying compatible with Zope's core features would be to my benefit... ZClasses are a core feature of Zope Unlike the depreciated Versions feature, which was more of a problem that benefit ZClasses do work, DTML does, as long as you don't try to make them solve complex problems. Keep ZClasses until there's a replacement for "Simple Rich Objects in the Object Database" for the intermediate Zope programmers. This hits me very close to home, I apologize for any harsh terms and appreciate Zope, the Zope team, and the work of all of the folks on this list, making it so great. I hope this helps in the discussion and weighing of priorities. I appreciate you asking, thanks for your time, Jonathan Cyr [EMAIL PROTECTED] WeddingWeblog.com Jim Fulton wrote: ZClasses are a feature that support through-the-web development. Many people have found them useful in the past, but they have some significant deficiencies, including: - They can't be managed with file-system tools, especially revision control systems like CVS and subversion. - They don't work well with Python development tools, like profilers and debugger. - They aren't being actively maintained. Most serious Zope developers stopped using them a long time ago and are frustrated that we still expend resources keeping them around. For example, the release of Zope 2.8 has been delayed by the requirement of getting ZClasses working with Zope 2.8. We could choose to deprecate ZClasses. If we deprecated them in Zope 2.8, they would still work in Zope 2.8 and Zope 2.9, but their support would be removed in Zope 2.10. Would anyone be upset if this happened? Jim ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
