[Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
Hello. On starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2 (upgraded from 2.8.1, compiled with Python 2.4.2, running on Fedora Core 3) I get the following error. Performance does not seem to be affected. Resolution? # service zopectl start /opt/python2.4.2/lib/python2.4/whrandom.py:38: DeprecationWarning: the whrandom module is deprecated; please use the random module DeprecationWarning) . daemon process started, pid=22829 # service zopectl stop /opt/python2.4.2/lib/python2.4/whrandom.py:38: DeprecationWarning: the whrandom module is deprecated; please use the random module DeprecationWarning) . daemon process stopped -- Harlow Pinson Indepth Learning Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 505 994-2135 Fax: 505 994-3603 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
On 14 Oct 2005, at 17:09, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. On starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2 (upgraded from 2.8.1, compiled with Python 2.4.2, running on Fedora Core 3) I get the following error. Performance does not seem to be affected. Resolution? # service zopectl start /opt/python2.4.2/lib/python2.4/whrandom.py:38: DeprecationWarning: the whrandom module is deprecated; please use the random module DeprecationWarning) . daemon process started, pid=22829 # service zopectl stop /opt/python2.4.2/lib/python2.4/whrandom.py:38: DeprecationWarning: the whrandom module is deprecated; please use the random module DeprecationWarning) . daemon process stopped If this was an error, it would say "error". This is a "warning". jens ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
>From the Zope 2.8.2 announcement on this mailing list : > Please also keep in mind that Zope 2.8.2 requires Python 2.3.5. Zope > 2.8.2 is not certified for any Python 2.4.x versions. So using Python > 2.4 is neither recommended nor supported and any related questions or > problems are likely to be ignored until 2.4 is an officially > supported Python version for Zope. Pascal -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens Vagelpohl Sent: 14 October 2005 17:12 To: Zope ML Subject: Re: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2 On 14 Oct 2005, at 17:09, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hello. On starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2 (upgraded from 2.8.1, > compiled with Python 2.4.2, running on Fedora Core 3) I get the > following error. Performance does not seem to be affected. > Resolution? > > # service zopectl start > /opt/python2.4.2/lib/python2.4/whrandom.py:38: DeprecationWarning: > the whrandom module is deprecated; please use the random module > DeprecationWarning) > . daemon process started, pid=22829 > > # service zopectl stop > /opt/python2.4.2/lib/python2.4/whrandom.py:38: DeprecationWarning: > the whrandom module is deprecated; please use the random module > DeprecationWarning) > . daemon process stopped If this was an error, it would say "error". This is a "warning". jens ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
--On 14. Oktober 2005 10:09:39 -0600 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. On starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2 (upgraded from 2.8.1, compiled with Python 2.4.2, running on Fedora Core 3) I get the following error. Performance does not seem to be affected. Resolution? Quote from my announcement yesterday: """ Please also keep in mind that Zope 2.8.2 requires Python 2.3.5. Zope 2.8.2 is not certified for any Python 2.4.x versions. So using Python 2.4 is neither recommended nor supported and any related questions or problems are likely to be ignored until 2.4 is an officially supported Python version for Zope. """ :-) -aj pgphMZeNcVCWJ.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
> Please also keep in mind that Zope 2.8.2 requires Python 2.3.5. Zope 2.8.2 > is not certified for any Python 2.4.x versions. So using Python 2.4 is > neither recommended nor supported and any related questions or problems are > likely to be ignored until 2.4 is an officially supported Python version > for Zope. My mistake, but given that, any sense if I can I safely ignore the warning? So far, things seems to be running well under Python 2.4.2. The instance contains a Plone 2.1 site and lots of DTML/ZSQL stuff, which appear unaffected. -- Harlow Pinson Indepth Learning Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 505 994-2135 Fax: 505 994-3603 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
[ [EMAIL PROTECTED] > My mistake, but given that, any sense if I can I safely ignore the > warning? It's a DeprecationWarning. All it means is that Python's `whrandom` module is going to go away in a future release -- it's advising applications to switch to using the `random` module if they want to continue to work under future releases. It's purely advisory, and in no sense points at "a problem". > So far, things seems to be running well under Python 2.4.2. The > instance contains a Plone 2.1 site and lots of DTML/ZSQL stuff, which > appear unaffected. Python 2.4.2 works fine. That's not the concern. The Zope concern for moving to any new Python release isn't that Python may be buggy, it's that a new Python release may introduce new behaviors that open "security holes" in Zope. Until a security audit is performed (which is done by expert humans), and any new security holes that may be discovered get plugged, 2.4.2 will remain unsupported for use with Zope 2. In contrast, Python 2.4 is now _required_ for Zope 3 development. Zope 3 has a different approach to security, which isn't as sensitive to changes in Python. ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
>> It's a DeprecationWarning. I see. Thanks. > In contrast, Python 2.4 is now _required_ for Zope 3 development. > Zope 3 has a different approach to security, which isn't as sensitive > to changes in Python. Good point-- this is why I had compiled 2.8.2 erroneously with Python 2.4.2-- I was experimenting with Zope 3 instance, and had read the docs recommending Py 2.4.2. My bad assumption was to take the same approach with Python 2.8.2. Fortunatly I have 2.3.5 installed along side 2.4.2 and can revert to that. -- Harlow Pinson Indepth Learning Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 505 994-2135 Fax: 505 994-3603 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
whrandom is a deprecated python library package which should be replaced by random. Python 2.3.5 does not produce the deprecation warning but lacks some of the features of the Python 2.4.X series. On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hello. On starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2 (upgraded from 2.8.1, > compiled with Python 2.4.2, running on Fedora Core 3) I get the > following error. Performance does not seem to be affected. > Resolution? > > # service zopectl start > /opt/python2.4.2/lib/python2.4/whrandom.py:38: DeprecationWarning: > the whrandom module is deprecated; please use the random module > DeprecationWarning) > . daemon process started, pid=22829 > > # service zopectl stop > /opt/python2.4.2/lib/python2.4/whrandom.py:38: DeprecationWarning: > the whrandom module is deprecated; please use the random module > DeprecationWarning) > . daemon process stopped > > > -- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
--On 16. Oktober 2005 11:27:36 -0700 Dennis Allison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: whrandom is a deprecated python library package which should be replaced by random. Python 2.3.5 does not produce the deprecation warning but lacks some of the features of the Python 2.4.X series. It is already replaced on the trunk but there is no need to replace it on the 2.8 branch. Once again: Python 2.4 is not supported for Zope 2.8 and therefore there is no need to replace something for an unsupported configuration. Such changes can be made for major release but not after the seconds minor release. The 2.8 branch is in general closed for new features. This change is neither a bugfix nor a feature request...this warning is just a warning as the name says...if it worries you, close your eyes :-) -aj pgpPmXkgkJ9tN.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
Pascal, Why does Zope lag the release of Python by so very long? The Python 2.4.X series includes language features and poerformance enhancements which ought to be available in Zope. For the most part, Python 2.3.5 is a subset of Python 2.4.X. Compatibility is a language and implementation design priority. Python 2.4 was released November 30, 2004, almost a year ago. Python 2.3.5 was released Feb 8, 2005 (after Python 2.4.0, released November 30, 2004, and shortly before Python 2.4.1 which was released March 30, 2005). Python 2.3 was released July 29, 2003. The current Python 2.4.2 was released just recently. My understanding is that the reason the Python 2.4.X is not the recommended Python is because a "security audit" has not been performed and not because of functionality issues.We have been using Python 2.4.1 in production without apparent problems; I am about to move to 2.4.2 which fixes some bugs we have not encountered. IMHO it would be wise to track the releases of Python a bit more closely. On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Pascal Peregrina wrote: > >From the Zope 2.8.2 announcement on this mailing list : > > Please also keep in mind that Zope 2.8.2 requires Python 2.3.5. Zope > > 2.8.2 is not certified for any Python 2.4.x versions. So using Python > > 2.4 is neither recommended nor supported and any related questions or > > problems are likely to be ignored until 2.4 is an officially > > supported Python version for Zope. > > Pascal > -- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
On 16 Oct 2005, at 19:54, Dennis Allison wrote: Why does Zope lag the release of Python by so very long? Because someone has to spend considerable time to assess impacts on the Zope 2 security machinery. This has been mentioned on this and other Zope lists on various occasions. My understanding is that the reason the Python 2.4.X is not the recommended Python is because a "security audit" has not been performed and not because of functionality issues.We have been using Python 2.4.1 in production without apparent problems; I am about to move to 2.4.2 which fixes some bugs we have not encountered. The fact that it "seems to work" is a pretty weak argument. It's like driving with really old tires where the rubber is starting to crack. It could lead to sudden failure, even though the car seems to drive just fine today. jens ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
Andreas, Aside from a "security audit" what problems have been reported using Python 2.4.X? Those of use who run Python 2.4.X do it becasue we want access to the language features and performance. If there are stability issues attributed to that choice, we'd like to know what they are. If the reason for trying to stick with 2.3.5 is to maintain a stable test and development environment for Zope 2.8, so be it. It is much much easier to fix one of the multitude of possible variables in a complex system. I, for one, have occasionally created a special instance of Zope running a different Python to ensure a problem I had discovered was not python version related. -d On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Andreas Jung wrote: > > > --On 14. Oktober 2005 10:09:39 -0600 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Hello. On starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2 (upgraded from 2.8.1, > > compiled with Python 2.4.2, running on Fedora Core 3) I get the > > following error. Performance does not seem to be affected. > > Resolution? > > > > Quote from my announcement yesterday: > > """ > Please also keep in mind that Zope 2.8.2 requires Python 2.3.5. Zope 2.8.2 > is not certified for any Python 2.4.x versions. So using Python 2.4 is > neither recommended nor supported and any related questions or problems are > likely to be ignored until 2.4 is an officially supported Python version > for Zope. > """ > > :-) > > -aj > -- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
--On 16. Oktober 2005 11:54:18 -0700 Dennis Allison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: IMHO it would be wise to track the releases of Python a bit more closely. Software components choosen for a framework have to be solid and approved. There is no reason to run after every new python version or whatever. Stability and performance is somewhat more important than hunting for new language features.. Some features of Python 2.4 are nice2have but we can perfectly live with Python 2.3.5. If you want Python 2.4, use it (at your own risk). As we already explained a bunch of times (sorry, this issue is bothering the more people ask about the same issue), a security audit has not happened yet. Why not? Because it takes time to do such an audit and the persons that can do such an audit likely had not time so far. So things are as they are and will change as they change. If you have the skills, resources and perhaps some money to fund the audit then raise your hand. Otherwise we have to wait until it will happen. -aj pgpgXajSHuyQv.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
--On 16. Oktober 2005 12:01:00 -0700 Dennis Allison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If the reason for trying to stick with 2.3.5 is to maintain a stable test and development environment for Zope 2.8, so be it. It is much much easier to fix one of the multitude of possible variables in a complex system. I, for one, have occasionally created a special instance of Zope running a different Python to ensure a problem I had discovered was not python version related. Please look at Tim Peter's statement concerning the security audit...there is nothing to add..that's the official position from the ZC side and I do 100% second this position. I won't continue responding to such postings and request as long as the situation is unchanged...this discussion is a waste of time and we discussed this issue already long enough on this list. I find it somewhat bothering and annoying to discuss the same things over and over again...can we stop this for now? -aj pgpjkWhtkJKjO.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
Andreas, I understand both the importance of stability and the need for a security audit at some point. (I do wish we had the funds or I had the time to help move it forward, but I don't.) I also understand the need for a consistent framework for reporting and resolving bugs. It is reasonable to expect that all bugs be reported against the same framework to eliminate one significant possible variable. What does concern me is the way in which the recommendation to use (at the moment) Python 2.3.5 is explained. I may be willing to accept the risks of using a system which has not yet been audited in terms of security, but I want to know if there are any reported instabilities or incompatibilities which have been identified when, say, Python 2.4.X is used. I'd rather people say that the standard reference platform against which all bugs should be reported uses 2.3.5, and that use of other, later versions of Python is at your own risk. When using another Python that is known to cause problems, it would make sense to identify the problem so that users can make an informed decision. There are times when there are Python version related problems and these need to be identified and publicized. We certainly collect the incompatilities (if there are any) so they can be fixed as eventually the code base will move to later python systems. -d On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Andreas Jung wrote: > > > --On 16. Oktober 2005 11:54:18 -0700 Dennis Allison > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > IMHO it would be wise to track the releases of Python a bit more closely. > > Software components choosen for a framework have to be solid and approved. > There is no reason to run after every new python version or whatever. > Stability and performance is somewhat more important than hunting for new > language features.. Some features of Python 2.4 are nice2have but we can > perfectly live with Python 2.3.5. If you want Python 2.4, use it (at your > own risk). > > As we already explained a bunch of times (sorry, this issue is bothering > the more people ask about the same issue), a security audit has not happened > yet. Why not? Because it takes time to do such an audit and the persons > that can do such an audit likely had not time so far. So things are as they > are and will change as they change. If you have the skills, resources > and perhaps some money to fund the audit then raise your hand. Otherwise we > have to wait until it will happen. > > -aj > > -- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Error on starting and stopping Zope 2.8.2
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 12:29 -0700, Dennis Allison wrote: > What does concern me is the way in which the recommendation to use (at the > moment) Python 2.3.5 is explained. > > I may be willing to accept the risks of using a system which has not yet > been audited in terms of security, but I want to know if there are any > reported instabilities or incompatibilities which have been identified > when, say, Python 2.4.X is used. I'm sure there are, but a list of all such issues hasn't been created and likely won't be. I suspect that there just aren't a lot of folks who are willing to do the time-consuming labor of testing their application under both 2.3.5 and a later Python revision and reporting the issue in a structured way to make it easy for others to consume. To the extent that some people are willing to do this, the historical mechanism for reporting has been the Zope collector; these kinds of issues are thrown in to the bucket like any other kind of issue. A concentrated effort is usually organized every year or two to find and solve them. When this concentrated effort is undertaken, developers have time to go cull the collector for issues like this. This is also why it's only undertaken every year or so, because it's pretty labor-intensive and so usually requires some injection of cash (which has historically comes from Zope Corporation or one of their customers). Collector issues already have a metadata field that is supposed to be used as a field for reporting the Python version used. Unfortunately there is no user-visible searching mechanism in the collector to show only issues that have been reported against a particular Python version. - C ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
