Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
Evan Simpson writes: > Ah, but I was sneaky and went and updated it just before posting ;-) You do > have to follow a link or two, but it isn't hard to find (any more). Thanks a lot! That'll teach me not to refresh the page when I check back :-) It now answers all my questions. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
From: Dan L. Pierson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/PythonMethods/GuardedImport > > I looked there. Ah, but I was sneaky and went and updated it just before posting ;-) You do have to follow a link or two, but it isn't hard to find (any more). Cheers, Evan @ digicool & 4-am ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
Evan Simpson writes: > From: Dan L. Pierson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Does this work for any module or just a semi-safe subset? > > > > How are submodules handled? Just put the full path in the > > ModuleSecurityInfo call? Can you grant permissions for all children > > of a parent module (scary!)? > > http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/PythonMethods/GuardedImport I looked there. It says something about how import restrictions will be implemented but nothing at all about what the limitations will be or what the syntax for interacting with the restriction mechanism will be. For example, your email is the only reference I can find to ModuleSecurityInfo. > ...is a good place to start learning about this. Any module can be made > available -- it's up to the Zope administrator (or Product author) to decide > what they can safely expose, under what terms. That seems reasonable. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
From: Dan L. Pierson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Does this work for any module or just a semi-safe subset? > > How are submodules handled? Just put the full path in the > ModuleSecurityInfo call? Can you grant permissions for all children > of a parent module (scary!)? http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/PythonMethods/GuardedImport ...is a good place to start learning about this. Any module can be made available -- it's up to the Zope administrator (or Product author) to decide what they can safely expose, under what terms. Cheers, Evan @ digicool & 4-am ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
Evan Simpson writes:
> Fear not. In the brand new shiny PythonMethods Product coming soon
> (really!) to a Zope near you, you will have the ability to say:
>
> ModuleSecurityInfo('re').protect('compile', 'Use the "re" module')
>
> ...and suddenly anyone to whom you grant 'Use the "re" module' permission
> will be able to 'from re import compile' in their Python Methods. Anyone
> else will be able to 'import re', but not access any of its contents.
Thank you! I was going to follow Chris McDonough's suggestion and add
something to the Wiki about this but your solution is just perfect.
Of course I have a couple of questions since I couldn't find any
mention of this in the Wiki:
Does this work for any module or just a semi-safe subset?
How are submodules handled? Just put the full path in the
ModuleSecurityInfo call? Can you grant permissions for all children
of a parent module (scary!)?
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Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
Evan Simpson wrote:
>
> From: Chris Withers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > One of Zope's key strengths is its granular security, right?
> > So why isn't it the reponsibility of the site
> > designer/maintainer/owner/whatever to ensure that only people he trusts
> > have the ability to write DTML?
>
> Fear not. In the brand new shiny PythonMethods Product coming soon
> (really!) to a Zope near you, you will have the ability to say:
>
> ModuleSecurityInfo('re').protect('compile', 'Use the "re" module')
>
> ...and suddenly anyone to whom you grant 'Use the "re" module' permission
> will be able to 'from re import compile' in their Python Methods. Anyone
> else will be able to 'import re', but not access any of its contents.
Now THAT! Rocks!
--
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are easy to annoy,
and have the root password.
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RE: [Zope] re module & through the web security
If you're concerned about the availability of various modules within PythonMethods, you should participate in the PythonMethods project wiki, probably at the page http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/PythonMethods/CurrentIssues. > -Original Message- > From: Dan L. Pierson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 10:14 AM > To: Chris Withers > Cc: Chris McDonough; T.J. Mannos; Marcus Mendes; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security > > > Chris Withers writes: > > Chris McDonough wrote: > > > There's the perception at DC that > > > 're' isn't appropriate for through-the-web usage because > it's possible to > > > write and use regex that sends the Python interpreter thread it's > > > operating within into a neverending loop. Sorry. > > [snip] > > > It seems like that perception is hobbling Python Methods, > in particular, > > by removing useful stuff like the re module because the > assumption is > > being made that people editing TTW code will be untrusted. > > I think the re module is a good example for arguing that DTML and > Python Methods should have different criteria for deciding what > modules are available (and separate permissions for users, if they > don't already). > > Somehow, the idea of mixing regexps and DTML gives me chills, but I > agree that it is a perfectly reasonable tool to want to use > in Python Methods. > This relates more the crusade to depricate DTML programming > as opposed > to DTML report writing than it does to security concerns. > > ___ > Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
Chris Withers writes: > Chris McDonough wrote: > > There's the perception at DC that > > 're' isn't appropriate for through-the-web usage because it's possible to > > write and use regex that sends the Python interpreter thread it's > > operating within into a neverending loop. Sorry. [snip] > It seems like that perception is hobbling Python Methods, in particular, > by removing useful stuff like the re module because the assumption is > being made that people editing TTW code will be untrusted. I think the re module is a good example for arguing that DTML and Python Methods should have different criteria for deciding what modules are available (and separate permissions for users, if they don't already). Somehow, the idea of mixing regexps and DTML gives me chills, but I agree that it is a perfectly reasonable tool to want to use in Python Methods. This relates more the crusade to depricate DTML programming as opposed to DTML report writing than it does to security concerns. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
From: Chris Withers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> One of Zope's key strengths is its granular security, right?
> So why isn't it the reponsibility of the site
> designer/maintainer/owner/whatever to ensure that only people he trusts
> have the ability to write DTML?
Fear not. In the brand new shiny PythonMethods Product coming soon
(really!) to a Zope near you, you will have the ability to say:
ModuleSecurityInfo('re').protect('compile', 'Use the "re" module')
...and suddenly anyone to whom you grant 'Use the "re" module' permission
will be able to 'from re import compile' in their Python Methods. Anyone
else will be able to 'import re', but not access any of its contents.
Cheers,
Evan @ digicool & 4-am
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Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Chris Withers wrote: > Chris McDonough wrote: > > There's the perception at DC that > > 're' isn't appropriate for through-the-web usage because it's possible to > > write and use regex that sends the Python interpreter thread it's > > operating within into a neverending loop. Sorry. > > Am I the only one who thinks this is silly? Probably not. > > One of Zope's key strengths is its granular security, right? > So why isn't it the reponsibility of the site > designer/maintainer/owner/whatever to ensure that only people he trusts > have the ability to write DTML? It is. > > It seems like that perception is hobbling Python Methods, in particular, > by removing useful stuff like the re module because the assumption is > being made that people editing TTW code will be untrusted. TTW people are implicitly untrusted. This is core to the security model. > > IMH(umble), either you don't have confidence in Zope's security, or > you're assuming your users are stupid (that may be fair for a lot of us, > but still ;-) I dont think either statement is true. It is because there are restrictions that Zope TTW scripting is "safe." It's designed to be more safe than expressive. Chris McDonough Digital Creations, Publishers of Zope http://www.zope.org ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
Hi, Chris Withers wrote: > > Chris McDonough wrote: > > There's the perception at DC that > > 're' isn't appropriate for through-the-web usage because it's possible to > > write and use regex that sends the Python interpreter thread it's > > operating within into a neverending loop. Sorry. > > Am I the only one who thinks this is silly? > > One of Zope's key strengths is its granular security, right? > So why isn't it the reponsibility of the site > designer/maintainer/owner/whatever to ensure that only people he trusts > have the ability to write DTML? > > It seems like that perception is hobbling Python Methods, in particular, > by removing useful stuff like the re module because the assumption is > being made that people editing TTW code will be untrusted. > > IMH(umble), either you don't have confidence in Zope's security, or > you're assuming your users are stupid (that may be fair for a lot of us, > but still ;-) > > Comments? :-) > I think the granularity could be finer. If one could give some users access to more 'riscy' modules and some not, it schould be sufficient. I schould write a proposal for thru the web python products... *g* Greetings Tino ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
i for my part think it makes sense. not just from a security standpoint (think of those sites that allow members who are not necessarily hand-picked to write DTML or attempt to do so) but also from a knowledge level standpoint. who wants their site crashed just because the new programmer doesn't know how to use that re functionality correctly? looking back at all the products and projects i have been involved in i did not have to use the re module a single time. as you know, you can still use the whole module in zope code that resides on the filesystem, like in products or in external methods. i'd rather be inconvenienced once every few months than basically invite denial of service attacks. jens Jens Vagelpohl The VW Type 4 on the Web: http://www.type4.org on 9/6/00 5:43, Chris Withers at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Chris McDonough wrote: >> There's the perception at DC that >> 're' isn't appropriate for through-the-web usage because it's possible to >> write and use regex that sends the Python interpreter thread it's >> operating within into a neverending loop. Sorry. > > Am I the only one who thinks this is silly? > > One of Zope's key strengths is its granular security, right? > So why isn't it the reponsibility of the site > designer/maintainer/owner/whatever to ensure that only people he trusts > have the ability to write DTML? > > It seems like that perception is hobbling Python Methods, in particular, > by removing useful stuff like the re module because the assumption is > being made that people editing TTW code will be untrusted. > > IMH(umble), either you don't have confidence in Zope's security, or > you're assuming your users are stupid (that may be fair for a lot of us, > but still ;-) > > Comments? :-) > > Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] re module & through the web security
Chris McDonough wrote: > There's the perception at DC that > 're' isn't appropriate for through-the-web usage because it's possible to > write and use regex that sends the Python interpreter thread it's > operating within into a neverending loop. Sorry. Am I the only one who thinks this is silly? One of Zope's key strengths is its granular security, right? So why isn't it the reponsibility of the site designer/maintainer/owner/whatever to ensure that only people he trusts have the ability to write DTML? It seems like that perception is hobbling Python Methods, in particular, by removing useful stuff like the re module because the assumption is being made that people editing TTW code will be untrusted. IMH(umble), either you don't have confidence in Zope's security, or you're assuming your users are stupid (that may be fair for a lot of us, but still ;-) Comments? :-) Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
