Re: [Zope-DB] Unified DA for Zope 2 using SQLAlchemy?
--On 26. März 2007 22:49:21 +0200 Maciej Wisniowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My posting says *nothing* about deprecating something. So __please__ stop reading between the lines when there is nothing - except whitespaces. But you said about *replacing* all different zope DAs. So I think it is not reading between lines. I agree that this kind of adapter (as additional one) is a nice idea :) For all who might be interested: there is now something like that called SQLAlchemyDA: http://svn.zope.org/Products.SQLAlchemyDA/trunk/ It uses my z3c.sqlalchemy implementation. The code quality is still alpha but good enough to let it work with ZSQL methods (but only roughly tested). Feedback welcome! Andreas pgpS94MllJA2u.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-DB mailing list Zope-DB@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-db
Re: [Zope-DB] Unified DA for Zope 2 using SQLAlchemy?
Andreas Jung wrote at 2007-3-25 17:49 +0200: In the Zope 2 worlds we have dedicated database adapters for different databases. Fortunately the Python world made us a wonderful present called SQLAlchemy that abstracts the different databases. In the Zope world we have some wrappers like z3c.zalchemy and z3c.sqlalchemy... basically they deal with connection handling, mapper handling and integration with the Zope transaction system. Would it make sense to replace all different Zope DAs with a generic DA on top of one of the z3c.* wrappers? I think it would not be too hard to write such a DA...or am I missing something? Thoughts? As I think I know you a bit, I would expect that you also want to deprecate the current support and get rid of it altogether within a year. This would get an even greater desaster than the tried removal of zLOG: huge amounts of applications would stop to work -- and many people would stop to use new Zope releases. Otherwise, I would not object against an *additional* SQLAlchemy based adapter. -- Dieter ___ Zope-DB mailing list Zope-DB@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-db
Re: [Zope-DB] Unified DA for Zope 2 using SQLAlchemy?
--On 26. März 2007 22:21:02 +0200 Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Jung wrote at 2007-3-25 17:49 +0200: In the Zope 2 worlds we have dedicated database adapters for different databases. Fortunately the Python world made us a wonderful present called SQLAlchemy that abstracts the different databases. In the Zope world we have some wrappers like z3c.zalchemy and z3c.sqlalchemy... basically they deal with connection handling, mapper handling and integration with the Zope transaction system. Would it make sense to replace all different Zope DAs with a generic DA on top of one of the z3c.* wrappers? I think it would not be too hard to write such a DA...or am I missing something? Thoughts? As I think I know you a bit, I would expect that you also want to deprecate the current support and get rid of it altogether within a year. My posting says *nothing* about deprecating something. So __please__ stop reading between the lines when there is nothing - except whitespaces. This would get an even greater desaster than the tried removal of zLOG: huge amounts of applications would stop to work -- and many people would stop to use new Zope releases. Otherwise, I would not object against an *additional* SQLAlchemy based adapter. That's *exactly* what I am talking about - an *additional* generic DA on top of SA where we don't have to care about the different RDBMS flavours - at least not the ones directly supported through SA. -aj pgp6f2ihWA6Ze.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-DB mailing list Zope-DB@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-db
Re: [Zope-DB] Unified DA for Zope 2 using SQLAlchemy?
Am 26.03.2007, 22:31 Uhr, schrieb Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED]: That's *exactly* what I am talking about - an *additional* generic DA on top of SA where we don't have to care about the different RDBMS flavours - at least not the ones directly supported through SA. I'm all for an SQLAlchemy DA (does SQLAlchemy support anything other than PostgreSQL?) and this would help people move from Zope 2 to Zope 3 but it *cannot* replace the other DA's because of the imperfect nature of SQL and the even less perfect nature of RDBMs. :-/ Furthermore, there are many occasions where you want the kind of direct access to a relation you get with the existing DA's. Charlie -- Charlie Clark eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,MacOSX for free ! eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 ___ Zope-DB mailing list Zope-DB@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-db
Re: [Zope-DB] Unified DA for Zope 2 using SQLAlchemy?
My posting says *nothing* about deprecating something. So __please__ stop reading between the lines when there is nothing - except whitespaces. But you said about *replacing* all different zope DAs. So I think it is not reading between lines. I agree that this kind of adapter (as additional one) is a nice idea :) -- Maciej Wisniowski ___ Zope-DB mailing list Zope-DB@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-db
Re: [Zope-DB] Unified DA for Zope 2 using SQLAlchemy?
--On 26. März 2007 22:49:21 +0200 Maciej Wisniowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My posting says *nothing* about deprecating something. So __please__ stop reading between the lines when there is nothing - except whitespaces. But you said about *replacing* all different zope DAs. So I think it is not reading between lines. Well you know that Zope does not skip with any DA (except the one for Gadyfly). So I am not in the position to replace anything in the Zope core that does not exist :-) Especially I am not in the position to replace any third-party products. So my whole posting has absolutely nothing to with the Zope core. I am just trying to collect feedback - good or bad - for a such a project - *totally independent* of the Zope 2 core. I hope this was clear enough - even for Dieter. I agree that this kind of adapter (as additional one) is a nice idea :) Andreas pgpaD0GiU0l8j.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-DB mailing list Zope-DB@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-db
Re: [Zope-DB] Unified DA for Zope 2 using SQLAlchemy?
--On 25. März 2007 23:54:14 +0200 Maciej Wisniowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the Zope 2 worlds we have dedicated database adapters for different databases. Fortunately the Python world made us a wonderful present called SQLAlchemy that abstracts the different databases. In the Zope world we have some wrappers like z3c.zalchemy and z3c.sqlalchemy... basically they deal with connection handling, mapper handling and integration with the Zope transaction system. Would it make sense to replace all different Zope DAs with a generic DA on top of one of the z3c.* wrappers? I think it would not be too hard to write such a DA...or am I missing something? Thoughts? Now (in Zope2) we have things like ZOracleDA (DCOracle2), ZPsycopgDA etc. that are adapters to these specific databases. They're based on Shared/DC/ZRDB/. In Zope3 there are also such adapters eg. one using cx_Oracle. They're based on Zope3 rdb module. What do you mean by 'replacing' them? You want wrapper build for z3c.* to be used instead of ZRDB (rdb)? You're talking about Zope2 or Zope3 too? The subject says Zope 2:-) -aj pgplwOvDfcK4O.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-DB mailing list Zope-DB@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-db
Re: [Zope-DB] Unified DA for Zope 2 using SQLAlchemy?
Now (in Zope2) we have things like ZOracleDA (DCOracle2), ZPsycopgDA etc. that are adapters to these specific databases. They're based on Shared/DC/ZRDB/. In Zope3 there are also such adapters eg. one using cx_Oracle. They're based on Zope3 rdb module. What do you mean by 'replacing' them? You want wrapper build for z3c.* to be used instead of ZRDB (rdb)? You're talking about Zope2 or Zope3 too? The subject says Zope 2:-) A... yes I've missed that :) So does your proposal is that the only support for RDBMS in zope 2.x should be via ORM like adapter? Or this should be something additional to current ZRDB, or you want to change (simplify?) ZRDB to be similiar to these z3c wrappers (zope transaction handling, connection pooling etc)? If you say about going into ORM adapters then few things I wonder about are calling specific (complicated) queries and/or stored procedures from databases. How does SQLAlchemy support this? Another thing, what about speed of ORMs in comparision to traditional queries with ZSQLMethods? -- Maciej Wisniowski ___ Zope-DB mailing list Zope-DB@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-db
