Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.10 deprecation warnings

2006-05-31 Thread Chris Withers

Florent Guillaume wrote:
Current bare Zope 2.10 sends some deprecation warnings because it itself 
imports things that it deprecates, this will have to be hidden. 
Suggestions welcome:


- App/Product.py imports ZClasses which are deprecated,


Does it really need to?

- Products/ZCatalog/ZCatalog.py imports TextIndex (for the Splitters) 
but TextIndex is deprecated.


Are these splitters used anywhere? They probably shouldn't be, since 
both ZCTextIndex and TextIndexNG include their own splitters...



Also I've checked in a fix for the ZPT warnings such as:
 Init Ambiguous name for method of 
Products.PageTemplates.ZopePageTemplate.ZopePageTemplate: 'manage' != 
'manage_main'


Yay :-)

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Chris McDonough
Sorry, I've not run your tests but I'll note that they don't take  
into account any concurrency or time lost due to conflict error  
retries.  There are many more conflicts when writing to ZEO-backed  
database in general when there is lots of concurrency because write  
transactions usually take longer.  And even if MVCC bails you out, it  
still takes time to do the conflict resolution.


There is a set of tests explicitly created to torture test session  
conflict rates here:


http://cvs.zope.org/Packages/SessionRig/

See also:

http://www.plope.com/Members/dunny/conflicts/view

- C



On May 31, 2006, at 10:58 PM, Sidnei da Silva wrote:


On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:59:36AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
|
| On May 31, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Sidnei da Silva wrote:
|
| >On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:49:49AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
| >| I've done this (at least with FileStorage) and it's
| >| sllo.  Might be OK for low-traffic sites, but  
better

| >| to implement a custom session data container that stores stuff in
| >| SQL.  I have the beginnings of one of these if you want to see  
it.

| >
| >Slow for using sessions? Why didn't you use tempstorage then?
|
| I think I thought it wouldn't have mattered.  The difference between
| using sessions against a local filestorage and one on a ZEO server
| was something like 20X.

So, since I couldn't believe the 20X figure, I wrote a very dumb test
[1] that shows [2] tempstorage to be only slightly slower than
filestorage (roughly 10%) and that adding zeo to the mix makes both of
them about 4X slower, which would be pretty acceptable by my
standards.

I'm looking forward for testing tres' memcached stuff tomorrow.

In the meantime, it would be great if someone can run the script on
different boxes and platforms (I've ran it on Windows on a Intel Dual
Core 3.0) to see if there's any difference.

[1] http://awkly.org/files/zeo-bench/bench.py
[2] http://awkly.org/files/zeo-bench/bench_results.txt

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Re: [Zope-dev] tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Sidnei da Silva
On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:59:36AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
| 
| On May 31, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Sidnei da Silva wrote:
| 
| >On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:49:49AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
| >| I've done this (at least with FileStorage) and it's
| >| sllo.  Might be OK for low-traffic sites, but better
| >| to implement a custom session data container that stores stuff in
| >| SQL.  I have the beginnings of one of these if you want to see it.
| >
| >Slow for using sessions? Why didn't you use tempstorage then?
| 
| I think I thought it wouldn't have mattered.  The difference between  
| using sessions against a local filestorage and one on a ZEO server  
| was something like 20X.

So, since I couldn't believe the 20X figure, I wrote a very dumb test
[1] that shows [2] tempstorage to be only slightly slower than
filestorage (roughly 10%) and that adding zeo to the mix makes both of
them about 4X slower, which would be pretty acceptable by my
standards.

I'm looking forward for testing tres' memcached stuff tomorrow.

In the meantime, it would be great if someone can run the script on
different boxes and platforms (I've ran it on Windows on a Intel Dual
Core 3.0) to see if there's any difference.

[1] http://awkly.org/files/zeo-bench/bench.py
[2] http://awkly.org/files/zeo-bench/bench_results.txt

-- 
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Enfold Systemshttp://enfoldsystems.com
Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Sidnei da Silva wrote:
> On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 02:12:48PM -0400, Tres Seaver wrote:
> | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> | Hash: SHA1
> | 
> | Eric Brun wrote:
> | > Hi,
> | > 
> | > I have bad experence with tempstorage on ZEO (FileStorage with no undo).
> | > With site with 18000 users (300 per minutes) , the site hang because of
> | > conflict on ZEO.
> | > I am very interested by a faster tempstorage like SQLDB
> | 
> | I am working on a memcached-based shared session data container, which
> | should be both faster than ZEO + tempstorage and conflict-free.
> 
> Having written a MemcacheCacheManager, I'm very interested in helping
> with this. How can I help you?

I haven't tested it under heavy load yet, but here is my first pass:  it
registers two ZMI-addable objects:

  - a 'MemCache Proxy', which knows the set of servers making up the
distributed cache (these may be either straight memcached servers
or, alternatively, disk-based tugela servers).

  - a 'MemCache Session Data Container', which uses the proxy to
implement the same interface as the TransientObjectContainer.

I plan to bang on it a little more, and release it sometime on or before
the 12th (I'm giving a talk on it at the ZPUG meeting then).


Tres.
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Description: GNU Zip compressed data
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[Zope-dev] Zope 2.10 deprecation warnings

2006-05-31 Thread Florent Guillaume
Current bare Zope 2.10 sends some deprecation warnings because it  
itself imports things that it deprecates, this will have to be  
hidden. Suggestions welcome:


- App/Product.py imports ZClasses which are deprecated,

- Products/ZCatalog/ZCatalog.py imports TextIndex (for the Splitters)  
but TextIndex is deprecated.


Also I've checked in a fix for the ZPT warnings such as:
 Init Ambiguous name for method of  
Products.PageTemplates.ZopePageTemplate.ZopePageTemplate: 'manage' !=  
'manage_main'


Florent

--
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Tino Wildenhain
Sidnei da Silva wrote:
> On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 02:12:48PM -0400, Tres Seaver wrote:
> | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> | Hash: SHA1
> | 
> | Eric Brun wrote:
> | > Hi,
> | > 
> | > I have bad experence with tempstorage on ZEO (FileStorage with no undo).
> | > With site with 18000 users (300 per minutes) , the site hang because of
> | > conflict on ZEO.
> | > I am very interested by a faster tempstorage like SQLDB
> | 
> | I am working on a memcached-based shared session data container, which
> | should be both faster than ZEO + tempstorage and conflict-free.
> 
> Having written a MemcacheCacheManager, I'm very interested in helping
> with this. How can I help you?
> 
Not sure if you know it, but I guess Tres is referring to
http://www.danga.com/memcached/

I was also ofthen thinking if something like that would make
a good client cache - w/o blowing up pythons heap so much.

Regards
Tino
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Sidnei da Silva
On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 02:12:48PM -0400, Tres Seaver wrote:
| -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
| Hash: SHA1
| 
| Eric Brun wrote:
| > Hi,
| > 
| > I have bad experence with tempstorage on ZEO (FileStorage with no undo).
| > With site with 18000 users (300 per minutes) , the site hang because of
| > conflict on ZEO.
| > I am very interested by a faster tempstorage like SQLDB
| 
| I am working on a memcached-based shared session data container, which
| should be both faster than ZEO + tempstorage and conflict-free.

Having written a MemcacheCacheManager, I'm very interested in helping
with this. How can I help you?

-- 
Sidnei da Silva
Enfold Systemshttp://enfoldsystems.com
Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214
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[Zope-dev] Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Tres Seaver
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Eric Brun wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have bad experence with tempstorage on ZEO (FileStorage with no undo).
> With site with 18000 users (300 per minutes) , the site hang because of
> conflict on ZEO.
> I am very interested by a faster tempstorage like SQLDB

I am working on a memcached-based shared session data container, which
should be both faster than ZEO + tempstorage and conflict-free.


Tres.
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[Zope-dev] Re: SVN: Zope/branches/ajung-zpt-end-game/...

2006-05-31 Thread Florent Guillaume

On 31 May 2006, at 19:20, Tres Seaver wrote:

I uploaded a similar one, except with deprecation warning, to the
collector issue I added:

 http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope/2118


Ah thanks, I missed it.

My variation also creates an expression which would raise a  
KeyError if

evaluated, rather than returning None.  I don't think anybody can
actually be depending on what the current code gives back if an empty
expression is called, so yours should be equally fine.


If you say it used to return the expression context, then I'm pretty  
sure nobody used the result. OTOH I'd rather return None just in  
case, it gives reasonable semantics.



WRT dprecation:  I would actually prefer no* to have the warning,
myself;  I don't think that a usage which has been workable for so  
long

is actually in error.


I agree, we should just decree "in Zope 2, empty ZPT path expression  
are allowed and evaluate to None".


Florent


We should probably add a test which verifies compilability of empty
expressions, plus whichever behavior we specify.


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[Zope-dev] Re: SVN: Zope/branches/ajung-zpt-end-game/...

2006-05-31 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Florent Guillaume wrote:
> Tres Seaver wrote:
> 
>>> I agree with you that there should be BBB code that provides the old
>>> behavior and I agree with Philipp that not using that old behavior is a
>>> benefit for the CMF.
>>
>>
>> Sure.  I just don't want to *make* people upgrade CMF when upgrading
>> Zope, unless there is a reason which is important *to the CMF*.
>>
>> An interesting factoid I found while spelunking this issue: the CMF (by
>> way of DCWorkflow) is literally the oldest consumer of the expression
>> machinery outside of ZPT itself!  Shane's earliest checkin of the
>> 'Expression' module was nearly 5 years ago, and used an empty string as
>> the class-level default for the 'text' attribute.
> 
> 
> FWIW the following patches gives the proper BBB behaviour.
> Shall I check it in? Does it need to send a deprecation warning?
> 
> Florent
> 
> Index: Products/PageTemplates/Expressions.py
> ===
> --- Products/PageTemplates/Expressions.py(revision 68406)
> +++ Products/PageTemplates/Expressions.py(working copy)
> @@ -99,6 +99,8 @@
>  class ZopePathExpr(PathExpr):
> 
>  def __init__(self, name, expr, engine):
> +if name == 'standard' and not expr:
> +expr = 'nothing'
>  super(ZopePathExpr, self).__init__(name, expr, engine,
> boboAwareZopeTraverse)
> 

I uploaded a similar one, except with deprecation warning, to the
collector issue I added:

 http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope/2118

My variation also creates an expression which would raise a KeyError if
evaluated, rather than returning None.  I don't think anybody can
actually be depending on what the current code gives back if an empty
expression is called, so yours should be equally fine.

WRT dprecation:  I would actually prefer no* to have the warning,
myself;  I don't think that a usage which has been workable for so long
is actually in error.

We should probably add a test which verifies compilability of empty
expressions, plus whichever behavior we specify.


Tres.
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[Zope-dev] Re: SVN: Zope/branches/ajung-zpt-end-game/...

2006-05-31 Thread Florent Guillaume

Tres Seaver wrote:

I agree with you that there should be BBB code that provides the old
behavior and I agree with Philipp that not using that old behavior is a
benefit for the CMF.


Sure.  I just don't want to *make* people upgrade CMF when upgrading
Zope, unless there is a reason which is important *to the CMF*.

An interesting factoid I found while spelunking this issue: the CMF (by
way of DCWorkflow) is literally the oldest consumer of the expression
machinery outside of ZPT itself!  Shane's earliest checkin of the
'Expression' module was nearly 5 years ago, and used an empty string as
the class-level default for the 'text' attribute.


FWIW the following patches gives the proper BBB behaviour.
Shall I check it in? Does it need to send a deprecation warning?

Florent

Index: Products/PageTemplates/Expressions.py
===
--- Products/PageTemplates/Expressions.py   (revision 68406)
+++ Products/PageTemplates/Expressions.py   (working copy)
@@ -99,6 +99,8 @@
 class ZopePathExpr(PathExpr):

 def __init__(self, name, expr, engine):
+if name == 'standard' and not expr:
+expr = 'nothing'
 super(ZopePathExpr, self).__init__(name, expr, engine,
boboAwareZopeTraverse)

Florent

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Re: [Zope-dev] tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Jens Vagelpohl

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On 31 May 2006, at 14:55, Sidnei da Silva wrote:


On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:49:49AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
| I've done this (at least with FileStorage) and it's
| sllo.  Might be OK for low-traffic sites, but better
| to implement a custom session data container that stores stuff in
| SQL.  I have the beginnings of one of these if you want to see it.

Slow for using sessions? Why didn't you use tempstorage then? Or you
are just asserting that FileStorage over ZEO is noticeably slower than
directly?


Tempstorage over ZEO becomes a conflict problem when things get busy.  
We removed it in favor of local temp storages.


jens

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Re: [Zope-dev] tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Chris McDonough


On May 31, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Sidnei da Silva wrote:


On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:49:49AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
| I've done this (at least with FileStorage) and it's
| sllo.  Might be OK for low-traffic sites, but better
| to implement a custom session data container that stores stuff in
| SQL.  I have the beginnings of one of these if you want to see it.

Slow for using sessions? Why didn't you use tempstorage then?


I think I thought it wouldn't have mattered.  The difference between  
using sessions against a local filestorage and one on a ZEO server  
was something like 20X.



Or you
are just asserting that FileStorage over ZEO is noticeably slower than
directly?


Yes, at least for writes.  As I assume tempstorage would be too.  And  
since sessions are all about writes, it's very noticeable.


- C

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Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: [Zope-dev] tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Eric Brun

Hi,

I have bad experence with tempstorage on ZEO (FileStorage with no undo).
With site with 18000 users (300 per minutes) , the site hang because of 
conflict on ZEO.

I am very interested by a faster tempstorage like SQLDB

Cheers

Eric Brun
Pentila

www.pentila.com

Chris McDonough a écrit :
I've done this (at least with FileStorage) and it's 
sllo.  Might be OK for low-traffic sites, but better 
to implement a custom session data container that stores stuff in 
SQL.  I have the beginnings of one of these if you want to see it.


- C

On May 31, 2006, at 9:44 AM, Sidnei da Silva wrote:


On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:40:01AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
| Should be OK, although if you're doing it because you want a "fast"
| storage (or one that "produces fewer conflicts"), ZEO takes away much
| hope of that intrinsically.

My goal was actually sharing sessions between zeo clients, without
resorting to zsqlsessions or similar.

--Sidnei da Silva
Enfold Systemshttp://enfoldsystems.com
Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214



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Re: [Zope-dev] tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Sidnei da Silva
On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:49:49AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
| I've done this (at least with FileStorage) and it's  
| sllo.  Might be OK for low-traffic sites, but better  
| to implement a custom session data container that stores stuff in  
| SQL.  I have the beginnings of one of these if you want to see it.

Slow for using sessions? Why didn't you use tempstorage then? Or you
are just asserting that FileStorage over ZEO is noticeably slower than
directly?

-- 
Sidnei da Silva
Enfold Systemshttp://enfoldsystems.com
Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214
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Re: [Zope-dev] tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Chris McDonough
I've done this (at least with FileStorage) and it's  
sllo.  Might be OK for low-traffic sites, but better  
to implement a custom session data container that stores stuff in  
SQL.  I have the beginnings of one of these if you want to see it.


- C

On May 31, 2006, at 9:44 AM, Sidnei da Silva wrote:


On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:40:01AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
| Should be OK, although if you're doing it because you want a "fast"
| storage (or one that "produces fewer conflicts"), ZEO takes away  
much

| hope of that intrinsically.

My goal was actually sharing sessions between zeo clients, without
resorting to zsqlsessions or similar.

--
Sidnei da Silva
Enfold Systemshttp://enfoldsystems.com
Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214



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Re: [Zope-dev] tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Sidnei da Silva
On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:40:01AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
| Should be OK, although if you're doing it because you want a "fast"  
| storage (or one that "produces fewer conflicts"), ZEO takes away much  
| hope of that intrinsically.

My goal was actually sharing sessions between zeo clients, without
resorting to zsqlsessions or similar.

-- 
Sidnei da Silva
Enfold Systemshttp://enfoldsystems.com
Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214
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Re: [Zope-dev] tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Chris McDonough


On May 31, 2006, at 9:08 AM, Sidnei da Silva wrote:


On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:53:14AM +0200, Tino Wildenhain wrote:
| Sidnei da Silva schrieb:
| >I was looking, and trying to understand why 'tempstorage' is not
| >included in the ZODB.
| >
| >Since some people might want to share sessions between ZEO clients,
| >and that 'tempstorage' is what is mounted as
| >'/temp_folder/session_data', why not make that easy to mount via  
ZEO?

| >Does anyone see a problem with this?
|
| actually it is easy mountable via ZEO. I'm doing this already...
| Do you mean including the schema for zeo.conf per default?

Yeah, that too. I was actually thinking about the standalone ZODB
package. Or does that not exist anymore?

I was also wondering if this is the right thing to do (mounting
tempstorage via ZEO) since I don't recall seeing any tutorial that
recommended it.


Should be OK, although if you're doing it because you want a "fast"  
storage (or one that "produces fewer conflicts"), ZEO takes away much  
hope of that intrinsically.


- C

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Re: [Zope-dev] tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Sidnei da Silva
On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 09:53:14AM +0200, Tino Wildenhain wrote:
| Sidnei da Silva schrieb:
| >I was looking, and trying to understand why 'tempstorage' is not
| >included in the ZODB.
| >
| >Since some people might want to share sessions between ZEO clients,
| >and that 'tempstorage' is what is mounted as
| >'/temp_folder/session_data', why not make that easy to mount via ZEO?
| >Does anyone see a problem with this?
| 
| actually it is easy mountable via ZEO. I'm doing this already...
| Do you mean including the schema for zeo.conf per default?

Yeah, that too. I was actually thinking about the standalone ZODB
package. Or does that not exist anymore?

I was also wondering if this is the right thing to do (mounting
tempstorage via ZEO) since I don't recall seeing any tutorial that
recommended it.

-- 
Sidnei da Silva
Enfold Systemshttp://enfoldsystems.com
Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214
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Re: [Zope-dev] tempstorage to ZEO?

2006-05-31 Thread Tino Wildenhain

Sidnei da Silva schrieb:

I was looking, and trying to understand why 'tempstorage' is not
included in the ZODB.

Since some people might want to share sessions between ZEO clients,
and that 'tempstorage' is what is mounted as
'/temp_folder/session_data', why not make that easy to mount via ZEO?
Does anyone see a problem with this?


actually it is easy mountable via ZEO. I'm doing this already...
Do you mean including the schema for zeo.conf per default?

Regards
Tino
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