Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Future of ZClasses
On 9/30/06, Philipp von Weitershausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: But where does this type come from? Persistent classes are hard (hence ZClasses cannot be maintained by anyone except a few people). I'm hopeful that this can be solved without actually reverting to that kind of magic. I don't see how introducing another concept (a type) would be more economic. It'd be one more thing to worry about wrt persistency etc. Well, then we won't come further in that discussion. The type is absolutely necessary for functionality, and as concept to make it understandable. That doesn't make it necessary. Let's say all event objects are marked with IEvent. Now you want to add behaviour to events. You can do that by registering stuff for IEvent. All objects marked with IEvent will get the new behaviour. Why would a type be needed? You are again mixing implementation details and principles. In your example here IEvent is the type. In my first mail I was also mixing implementation details and principles, I hope to have since rectified that. Types in Zope 3 are typically expressed by interfaces. Yes, and that would most likely be the case here too. Most likely which "type" and object is would be expressed by letting that object have a specific interface. This does not make "interface" and "type" conceptually equal. As I mentioned before, if you tell a site administrator that he can create interfaces which enables adapters, factories and more interfaces, he will not understand what that means, or why he would want it or how to do it. If you tell him that he can create types, on which he can enable functionality and create views and pages, than he will understand. We can't call everything "interfaces", no matter how we use them and expect people to understand us. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Future of ZClasses
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote at 2006-9-30 02:30 +0200: > ... >> You want to stick this interface to individual objects, >> while Lennart proposed to stick it to a type and use >> some kind of inheritance to make it effective on all objects >> instantiated from this type. > >But where does this type come from? Persistent classes are hard (hence >ZClasses cannot be maintained by anyone except a few people). I remember that Jim proposed "PersistentModule"s, currently a ZODB proposal, to implement functionality similar to ZClasses in an easier way. But, I cannot yet answer your question sincerely. >> For me, Lennart's approach seems to be far more economic, as >> he does things on an abstract (the type) level rather than >> always work on the concrete (the individual object) level. > >I don't see how introducing another concept (a type) would be more >economic. I find that the introduction of classes with (multiple) inheritance has been very economic. It was another concept but a highly fruitful one, despite the fact that they are not so liked in Zope3 land. As a former mathematician, I also like the introduction of abstraction layers (object -> type/class -> metatype/metaclass -> ...) as abstraction often drastically increases economicity. >It'd be one more thing to worry about wrt persistency etc. Your answer to Lennart made me a bit unsure. It appears as if an interface could live on different abstraction levels -- at least together with ZCML and adapter magic. I am not yet really familiar with this. Let's see what Lennart answers. -- Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] SESSION values only refreshing with Shift-reload
Hi Tina, Tina Matter wrote: I have a basic DTML document that has several input fields on it. I'm pretty sure you're looking for the zope@zope.org list ;-) On my error page (dtml-document), Use ZPT instead, or Twiddler when it's out ;-) However, when I click on that link, my SESSION values are not displaying. But if I press Shift-Reload, I see my values. Any ideas? Sounds like IE caching, have you tried using Firefox? populate_session_vars (This sets the SESSION values based on what was entered on the form ie. ) , you really need to learn to use Python Scripts ;-) If anyone knows what is going on, please respond quickly. I am under a tight deadline. ...then pay someone to fix it for you <0.5 wink> Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Future of ZClasses
Lennart Regebro wrote: On 9/29/06, Dieter Maurer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You want to stick this interface to individual objects, while Lennart proposed to stick it to a type and use some kind of inheritance to make it effective on all objects instantiated from this type. For me, Lennart's approach seems to be far more economic, as he does things on an abstract (the type) level rather than always work on the concrete (the individual object) level. In fact it is absolutely necessary, as you want to be able to change the behaviour of a whole type of content classes. If you create the content class "Events" and then suddenly want all events to have a iCal export support, you do not want to enable this per event, but for the type "event". That doesn't make it necessary. Let's say all event objects are marked with IEvent. Now you want to add behaviour to events. You can do that by registering stuff for IEvent. All objects marked with IEvent will get the new behaviour. Why would a type be needed? The type is thusly equivalent to portal types of CMF. Types in Zope 3 are typically expressed by interfaces. I think all of your use cases can be covered with just interfaces. No need to invent yet another thing that you'll have to persist and create machinery for. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Future of ZClasses
Dieter Maurer wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote at 2006-9-29 01:35 +0200: Dieter Maurer wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote at 2006-9-28 14:23 +0200: ... Why not set marker interfaces directly on the objects? That whole "type" thing is unnecessary. Just use interfaces. Usually, a type is seen as a set of objects, its type instances. It is quite nice to be able to work on a object set meta level rather than on individual objects Sure, though I don't see how an interface can't represent this meta level. Perhaps I'm missing an important point here... You want to stick this interface to individual objects, while Lennart proposed to stick it to a type and use some kind of inheritance to make it effective on all objects instantiated from this type. But where does this type come from? Persistent classes are hard (hence ZClasses cannot be maintained by anyone except a few people). For me, Lennart's approach seems to be far more economic, as he does things on an abstract (the type) level rather than always work on the concrete (the individual object) level. I don't see how introducing another concept (a type) would be more economic. It'd be one more thing to worry about wrt persistency etc. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Future of ZClasses
On 9/29/06, Dieter Maurer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You want to stick this interface to individual objects, while Lennart proposed to stick it to a type and use some kind of inheritance to make it effective on all objects instantiated from this type. For me, Lennart's approach seems to be far more economic, as he does things on an abstract (the type) level rather than always work on the concrete (the individual object) level. In fact it is absolutely necessary, as you want to be able to change the behaviour of a whole type of content classes. If you create the content class "Events" and then suddenly want all events to have a iCal export support, you do not want to enable this per event, but for the type "event". The type is thusly equivalent to portal types of CMF. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] SESSION values only refreshing with Shift-reload
Tina Matter wrote at 2006-9-29 06:57 -0700: >I have a basic DTML document that has several input fields on it. When the >user submits the form, validation occurs and goes to an error page, if need >be. On my error page (dtml-document), there is a link to go back to the >previous page to correct your errors. However, when I click on that link, my >SESSION values are not displaying. But if I press Shift-Reload, I see my >values. Any ideas? Wheneven something bad happens and vanishes afte a "Shift-Reload", you probably have a caching problem. Search for "cache-control" and the a corresponding response header such that you document will not be cached. -- Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Future of ZClasses
--On 29. September 2006 02:23:13 +0200 Philipp von Weitershausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dieter Maurer wrote: Also the thread that ZClass (re)distribution code will be removed need not worry you too much. Fortunately, Zope is open source and you can simply combine the new release with pieces of an older release to retain features essential to you. I see no problem in making the "ZClasses" a separate svn.zope.org project, for example. That way they're not hindering Zope 2 core releases but could still be maintained (e.g. by volunteers like apparently yourself, Dieter :)) and shipped as an optional egg, for example. I think we should really make ZClasses available as separate package in Zope 2.11 since the current code seems to be borked for some ppl and because we dropped already some code (ZClasses distribution related staff). So moving ZClasses out of the Zope core is clear sign for any user: don't use ZClasses. Objections? Andreas pgpOeaWAhJ2JA.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Future of ZClasses
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote at 2006-9-29 01:35 +0200: >Dieter Maurer wrote: >> Philipp von Weitershausen wrote at 2006-9-28 14:23 +0200: >>> ... >>> Why not set marker interfaces directly on the objects? That whole "type" >>> thing is unnecessary. Just use interfaces. >> >> Usually, a type is seen as a set of objects, its type instances. >> >> It is quite nice to be able to work on a object set meta level >> rather than on individual objects > >Sure, though I don't see how an interface can't represent this meta >level. Perhaps I'm missing an important point here... You want to stick this interface to individual objects, while Lennart proposed to stick it to a type and use some kind of inheritance to make it effective on all objects instantiated from this type. For me, Lennart's approach seems to be far more economic, as he does things on an abstract (the type) level rather than always work on the concrete (the individual object) level. -- Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] SESSION values only refreshing with Shift-reload
I have a basic DTML document that has several input fields on it. When the user submits the form, validation occurs and goes to an error page, if need be. On my error page (dtml-document), there is a link to go back to the previous page to correct your errors. However, when I click on that link, my SESSION values are not displaying. But if I press Shift-Reload, I see my values. Any ideas?Upon Submitting the first form, here is what happens:populate_session_vars (This sets the SESSION values based on what was entered on the form ie. )validate_form (This validates that the required fields are filled in)If there's an error, the user goes to the error page and from there, clicks on a link to go back to the main form to fix their errors (dtml-document).If anyone knows what is going on, please respond quickly. I am under a tight deadline.Thanks so much. All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] buildbot failure in Zope branches 2.9 2.4 Windows 2000 zc-bbwin2
The Buildbot has detected a failed build of Zope branches 2.9 2.4 Windows 2000 zc-bbwin2. Buildbot URL: http://buildbot.zope.org/ Build Reason: changes Build Source Stamp: 7923 Blamelist: andreasjung,baijum,ctheune,dobe,faassen,fdrake,gintautasm,hdima,jim,jinty,jukart,mkerrin,opetznick,poster,regebro,romanofski,srichter,tseaver,wosc,yuppie,yusei BUILD FAILED: failed compile sincerely, -The Buildbot ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] buildbot failure in Zope branches 2.9 2.4 Linux zc-buildbot
The Buildbot has detected a failed build of Zope branches 2.9 2.4 Linux zc-buildbot. Buildbot URL: http://buildbot.zope.org/ Build Reason: changes Build Source Stamp: 7923 Blamelist: andreasjung,baijum,ctheune,dobe,faassen,fdrake,gintautasm,hdima,jim,jinty,jukart,mkerrin,opetznick,poster,regebro,romanofski,srichter,tseaver,wosc,yuppie,yusei BUILD FAILED: failed test sincerely, -The Buildbot ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
