Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2: Reducing C dependencies
Am 30.03.2010, 17:31 Uhr, schrieb Hanno Schlichting ha...@hannosch.eu: It simplifies the release process for Zope2. In most cases upgrading to a new version of Zope2 won't involve any changes to C code. If the C code is split out, we won't have to release any new Windows binary eggs of any kind. Upgrades on systems without a compiler are also going to be easier. +1 in general but -1 if it is really just about windows binaries. I like the idea of cleaning up dependencies and optional C-optimisations but as a general process. Charlie -- Charlie Clark Managing Director Clark Consulting Research German Office Helmholtzstr. 20 Düsseldorf D- 40215 Tel: +49-211-600-3657 Mobile: +49-178-782-6226 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] NEO High Performance Distributed Fault Tolerant ZODB Storage
Hi, I would like to present you the NEOPPOD project, aiming at improving ZODB Storage scalability. The implementation is in a rather good shape, although it fails at a few ZODB tests at the moment (they are currently being worked on). Scalability is achieved by distributing data over multiple servers (replication and load balancing) with the ability to extend/reduce cluster on-line. Its code is available under the GPL, more information can be found on the project website[1]. One nice aspect is that the underlying protocol is being analysed with model-checking tools based on Petri Nets by a team of post-doc, PhD students and researchers. An article should appear in PETRI NETS 2010 [2]. We hope that NEO will be usable for production systems in 12 months from now, and will notify the community the day we think it is, ie. after using it ourselves. Meanwhile, it can be interesting for research and fun. Contributions are very welcome (extend portability beyond Linux 2.6, replace MySQL daemon dependency with a lighter embeddable transactional storage, etc). For now, it has been manually confirmed to run Plone and ERP5. Of course, to get the best out of NEO, a Zope application (or ZODB-based application) needs to be designed in a way taking advantage of back-end parallelism (much in the same way that a single-process application cannot take advantage of SMP). We wrote a presentation[3] out of our experience with ERP5 scalability testing improvement, which might be an interesting read for people developing on the Zope framework. It describes what was the most common mistakes we corrected, and tools we developed to further extend scalability at various levels (NEO being the latest). And for most productions system, ZEO is really great. We have for example used ZEO for now more than 2 years to operate a Central Bank ERP with 300 concurrent users and ZEO never crashed. [1] http://www.neoppod.org/ [2] http://acsd-petrinets2010.di.uminho.pt/ [3] http://www.myerp5.com/kb/enterprise-High.Performance.Zope/view Note: If this mail would fit another list better, please advise. Regards, -- Vincent Pelletier ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Agenda for today's IRC meeting (3pm UTC on #zope)
Hello Christian, One point for the next agenda: As Marius also had the issue to do a KGS 3.4.1. Do we want to do that? Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 11:09:05 AM, you wrote: ... -- Best regards, Adam GROSZERmailto:agros...@gmail.com -- Quote of the day: To ease another's heartache is to forget one's own. - Abraham Lincoln ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Agenda for today's IRC meeting (3pm UTC on #zope)
On 03/31/2010 12:35 PM, Adam GROSZER wrote: Hello Christian, One point for the next agenda: As Marius also had the issue to do a KGS 3.4.1. Do we want to do that? I can put it on the agenda, but it sounds like that could also be discussed on the mailinglist. I don't want to get rid of the mailinglist - I'd just like to provide an additional channel of communication. So there's no need to wait. Just ask on the list and if that doesn't work out, we'll discuss it in the weekly meeting. Christian -- Christian Theune · c...@gocept.com gocept gmbh co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 0 · fax +49 345 1229889 1 Zope and Plone consulting and development smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2: Reducing C dependencies
Charlie Clark wrote: Am 30.03.2010, 17:31 Uhr, schrieb Hanno Schlichtingha...@hannosch.eu: It simplifies the release process for Zope2. In most cases upgrading to a new version of Zope2 won't involve any changes to C code. If the C code is split out, we won't have to release any new Windows binary eggs of any kind. Upgrades on systems without a compiler are also going to be easier. +1 in general but -1 if it is really just about windows binaries. Why -1 if it's just about windows binaries? Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 6 OK
Summary of messages to the zope-tests list. Period Tue Mar 30 12:00:00 2010 UTC to Wed Mar 31 12:00:00 2010 UTC. There were 6 messages: 6 from Zope Tests. Tests passed OK --- Subject: OK : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.6 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Tue Mar 30 21:28:26 EDT 2010 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-March/013828.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.11 Python-2.4.6 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Tue Mar 30 21:30:26 EDT 2010 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-March/013829.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.12 Python-2.6.4 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Tue Mar 30 21:32:26 EDT 2010 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-March/013830.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.12-alltests Python-2.6.4 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Tue Mar 30 21:34:26 EDT 2010 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-March/013831.html Subject: OK : Zope-trunk Python-2.6.4 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Tue Mar 30 21:36:26 EDT 2010 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-March/013832.html Subject: OK : Zope-trunk-alltests Python-2.6.4 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Tue Mar 30 21:38:26 EDT 2010 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-March/013833.html ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2: Reducing C dependencies
Am 31.03.2010, 13:54 Uhr, schrieb Martin Aspeli optilude+li...@gmail.com: Why -1 if it's just about windows binaries? Because I don't think that, if this were the case, this would be the best solution to the problem. But I believe that there will probably be a benefit for all systems, especially buildbots if the C extensions don't need compiling every time. My comment was similar to your initial question an attempt to clarify the why. Charlie -- Charlie Clark Managing Director Clark Consulting Research German Office Helmholtzstr. 20 Düsseldorf D- 40215 Tel: +49-211-600-3657 Mobile: +49-178-782-6226 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
Hi there, I was in too much of a good mood while having some vacation. So I thought I need more work to do :) I'd like to step up as the release manager for Zope2 for the 2.12 and 2.13 (trunk) releases. I've gotten an overwhelmingly positive response to this proposal from the Zope Foundation board. The ZF board was discussing a general release manager process. This discussion will become obsolete, should nobody in the Zope2 developer community have significant objections against my proposal. Unless there is a real need for it, the Zope Foundation will continue to stay out of direct decisions on the development process. QA Who am I? I'm going to assume everyone on this list knows me by now. Should you have any questions, please feel free to ask. You know this is Zope2 and not Plone? Indeed. I hope I have shown in the past, that I'm able to distinguish between the two. And what is appropriate and sensible for Zope2 with its many different consumers. Plone might be a major consumer of Zope2, but it's not the only one. Since I only use Zope2 as a base for Plone, I do have a certain bias. Wait, you say 2.12 and 2.13, what about 2.11 and before? Sorry, I have to pick my playground. The non-eggified Zope2 releases are very different in their release procedures. I find that process to be tedious and no fun at all, so I'm not going to spent my free time on it. Should nobody else step up to act as a release manager for those releases, they will be unsupported. Are you a new Andreas? Nobody can replace Andreas and the tremendous amount of time and dedication he has shown. Personally I do not care about evangelizing Zope2 or helping out end-users on mailing lists amongst others. So no, I'm not going to do all the work Andreas did. I'm only here to help out as a release manager, whose job it is to get stable releases out. I do read the developers mailing lists and watch the bug trackers, I don't read any users mailing list or see it as my job to fix or respond to every bug anyone reports. What about that Plone release manager position? I am currently the release manager for Plone 5. We have clarified the overall roadmap for Plone 5, and we aren't going to work on any of the formal release parts for the next 12 months or longer. The current focus is on the Plone 4.x release series, where Eric Steele serves as the release manager. So while I'm going to keep my post as a Plone release manager, it currently doesn't involve any time commitments. What about Zope 2.14 or beyond? Nobody knows yet. We will see once we get there. My formal commitment is for 2.12 and 2.13. Are you insane? Maybe a little bit. But seriously if anyone knows anyone else who would be interested in this job, speak up. I haven't seen anyone else since Andreas stepped down. And I happen to work for a company which is 100% dependent on Zope / Plone for their income stream. While I'm doing this in my spare time, I do have a very real need for Zope2 releases. I'm planning to make a 2.12.4 release on Easter Monday (April 5). You have until then to ask questions and complain :) Hanno ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Wanted: representatives from Zope 2, grok, and BlueBream to engineer ZTK 1.0 release
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Christian Theune c...@gocept.com wrote: * Zope 2: In theory I'd suggest the Zope 2 release manager. In practice I'd like to nominate Hanno because he's been very active with Zope 2 recently and already has done work on the ZTK before. (Hanno: sorry. *duck*) Since I just stepped up as the Zope2 release manager, I'd be happy to be involved and help out with this. Pending any objections against me as a release manager that is :) I'm probably not going to be able to drive the ZTK process. I think the first release should be driven by the needs of BlueBream and Grok. I'll be happy to voice my opinion and my concerns from a Zope2 (Plone?) standpoint. And make sure that the overall release process of the ZTK ensures the same sort of stability and release timespans, that will allow Zope2 to use it. Hanno ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
Am 31.03.2010, 14:39 Uhr, schrieb Hanno Schlichting ha...@hannosch.eu: I'm planning to make a 2.12.4 release on Easter Monday (April 5). You have until then to ask questions and complain Hi Hanno, great that you'll be Release Manager. I only have questions on the forthcoming release - a summary of the proposed changes / bugfixes for us to moan about! ;-) Charlie -- Charlie Clark Managing Director Clark Consulting Research German Office Helmholtzstr. 20 Düsseldorf D- 40215 Tel: +49-211-600-3657 Mobile: +49-178-782-6226 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] RFC: 3.4.1 KGS?
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 01:37:47PM +0200, Christian Theune wrote: On 03/31/2010 12:35 PM, Adam GROSZER wrote: One point for the next agenda: As Marius also had the issue to do a KGS 3.4.1. Mostly I wanted to know if anybody was using the KGS in production and interested in a point release. IRC seemed the right place for a straw poll before an email to zope-dev@, except that I had to run sooner than I thought so I didn't see how people reacted. I recently looked at the zope.release 3.4 branch and saw that it has a bunch of updated package versions since the 3.4.0 release (which was in January 2009). I'm especially interested in setuptools 0.6c11, since the KGS currently pins to 0.6c9, which doesn't support Subversion 1.6 checkouts. We use the 3.4 KGS in production with a few extra pins. Some fix important bugs: zope.app.component = 3.4.2 # very important bugfix for BBB ZODB3 = 3.8.4 # security fixes zope.sendmail = 3.5.1 # This version handles the 5xx errors zope.security = 3.4.2 # bugfixes for Python 2.5 setuptools = 0.6c11 then there are the we just want the latest tools pins for zc.buildout and zope.testing, which I'm not proposing to push into a KGS point update (especially with the zope.testing.doctest deprecation which pushes people into using buggy stdlib's doctest). I'm also interested in a bugfix for zope.sendmail that's not done yet: currently it starts the background mail processing thread even if do things like bin/development-instance debug. This can result in emails sent out twice. It also doesn't let the process quit, due to changes in Python's 2.5 threading semantics (atexit handlers that are trying to stop the background thread now are postponed until after all threads terminate). The latest zope.sendmail can avoid this mess by disabling the delivery thread and using a standalone thread-watching script, but it depends on newer core packages and is incompatible with the 3.4 KGS. The 3.4 buildbot tracks the tip of the zope.release's 3.4 branch. All tests pass there. I see that zope.app.component 3.4.2 and setuptools 0.6c11 are already in the (unreleased) 3.4 KGS; ZODB3 3.8.4, zope.sendmail 3.5.1 and zope.security 3.4.2 aren't. So, my plan of action is: * fix zope.sendmail using the approach discussed on this list a few weeks ago * look at other possible bugfix upgrades, see if there are any important bugs fixed (zope.release's bin/list-latest is useful here) * bump ZODB3, zope.sendmail, zope.security versions in the 3.4 KGS, see what buildbot things of this * try to get a 3.4.1 release out of the door -- this is where I'm fuzzy. I think I used to have ssh access to download.zope.org, but I don't even remember how you're supposed to use zope.release's bin/upload, and I never knew how the releases were made. Marius Gedminas -- http://pov.lt/ -- Zope 3 consulting and development signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Charlie Clark charlie.cl...@clark-consulting.eu wrote: great that you'll be Release Manager. I only have questions on the forthcoming release - a summary of the proposed changes / bugfixes for us to moan about! ;-) We release whatever is on the stable branch, as seen at http://svn.zope.org/Zope/branches/2.12/doc/CHANGES.rst?view=markup You moan about things when they get checked in. Otherwise silence is consent. Unless I'll use my dictator power for a release of course ;-) Hanno ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2: Reducing C dependencies
On Wednesday 31 March 2010, Martin Aspeli wrote: It simplifies the release process for Zope2. In most cases upgrading to a new version of Zope2 won't involve any changes to C code. If the C code is split out, we won't have to release any new Windows binary eggs of any kind. Upgrades on systems without a compiler are also going to be easier. +1 in general but -1 if it is really just about windows binaries. Why -1 if it's just about windows binaries? A big +1 for me. If splitting these out means we do not have to produce binary Zope 2 releases, then that's fantastic! Regards, Stephan -- Entrepreneur and Software Geek Google me. Zope Stephan Richter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
Am 31.03.2010, 14:59 Uhr, schrieb Hanno Schlichting ha...@hannosch.eu: We release whatever is on the stable branch, as seen at http://svn.zope.org/Zope/branches/2.12/doc/CHANGES.rst?view=markup You moan about things when they get checked in. Otherwise silence is consent. Unless I'll use my dictator power for a release of course Looks all good to me. - Restore ability to traverse to 'macros' on template-based browser views I've probably been struggling with this on my current project. What are the tell-tale signs? Don't see a bug number and a quick search of the mailing list throws up nothing. Charlie -- Charlie Clark Managing Director Clark Consulting Research German Office Helmholtzstr. 20 Düsseldorf D- 40215 Tel: +49-211-600-3657 Mobile: +49-178-782-6226 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hanno, thanks a lot for jumping on the Zope 2 boat. I can not think of any other person being better suited for the new Zope 2 releases than Hanno especially because the Plone and Zope 2 project will leverage from each other. Good luck! Andreas Hanno Schlichting wrote: Hi there, I was in too much of a good mood while having some vacation. So I thought I need more work to do :) I'd like to step up as the release manager for Zope2 for the 2.12 and 2.13 (trunk) releases. I've gotten an overwhelmingly positive response to this proposal from the Zope Foundation board. The ZF board was discussing a general release manager process. This discussion will become obsolete, should nobody in the Zope2 developer community have significant objections against my proposal. Unless there is a real need for it, the Zope Foundation will continue to stay out of direct decisions on the development process. QA Who am I? I'm going to assume everyone on this list knows me by now. Should you have any questions, please feel free to ask. You know this is Zope2 and not Plone? Indeed. I hope I have shown in the past, that I'm able to distinguish between the two. And what is appropriate and sensible for Zope2 with its many different consumers. Plone might be a major consumer of Zope2, but it's not the only one. Since I only use Zope2 as a base for Plone, I do have a certain bias. Wait, you say 2.12 and 2.13, what about 2.11 and before? Sorry, I have to pick my playground. The non-eggified Zope2 releases are very different in their release procedures. I find that process to be tedious and no fun at all, so I'm not going to spent my free time on it. Should nobody else step up to act as a release manager for those releases, they will be unsupported. Are you a new Andreas? Nobody can replace Andreas and the tremendous amount of time and dedication he has shown. Personally I do not care about evangelizing Zope2 or helping out end-users on mailing lists amongst others. So no, I'm not going to do all the work Andreas did. I'm only here to help out as a release manager, whose job it is to get stable releases out. I do read the developers mailing lists and watch the bug trackers, I don't read any users mailing list or see it as my job to fix or respond to every bug anyone reports. What about that Plone release manager position? I am currently the release manager for Plone 5. We have clarified the overall roadmap for Plone 5, and we aren't going to work on any of the formal release parts for the next 12 months or longer. The current focus is on the Plone 4.x release series, where Eric Steele serves as the release manager. So while I'm going to keep my post as a Plone release manager, it currently doesn't involve any time commitments. What about Zope 2.14 or beyond? Nobody knows yet. We will see once we get there. My formal commitment is for 2.12 and 2.13. Are you insane? Maybe a little bit. But seriously if anyone knows anyone else who would be interested in this job, speak up. I haven't seen anyone else since Andreas stepped down. And I happen to work for a company which is 100% dependent on Zope / Plone for their income stream. While I'm doing this in my spare time, I do have a very real need for Zope2 releases. I'm planning to make a 2.12.4 release on Easter Monday (April 5). You have until then to ask questions and complain :) Hanno ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) - -- ZOPYX Limited \ zopyx group Charlottenstr. 37/1 \ The full-service network for your D-72070 Tübingen \ Python, Zope and Plone projects www.zopyx.com, i...@zopyx.com \ www.zopyxgroup.com - E-Publishing, Python, Zope Plone development, Consulting -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuzVyIACgkQCJIWIbr9KYxMtQCeMnG0GBG86Sk3QcTD5tGqfQYV E5oAn1amaO3AfN7rWfuOkBFPc+2m/kjQ =7iYf -END PGP SIGNATURE- attachment: lists.vcf___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
Op 31-03-10 14:39, Hanno Schlichting schreef: Hi there, I was in too much of a good mood while having some vacation. So I thought I need more work to do :) I'd like to step up as the release manager for Zope2 for the 2.12 and 2.13 (trunk) releases. This is great news. Thanks, Hanno! Maurits ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hanno Schlichting wrote: Hi there, I was in too much of a good mood while having some vacation. So I thought I need more work to do :) I'd like to step up as the release manager for Zope2 for the 2.12 and 2.13 (trunk) releases. I've gotten an overwhelmingly positive response to this proposal from the Zope Foundation board. The ZF board was discussing a general release manager process. This discussion will become obsolete, should nobody in the Zope2 developer community have significant objections against my proposal. Unless there is a real need for it, the Zope Foundation will continue to stay out of direct decisions on the development process. QA Who am I? I'm going to assume everyone on this list knows me by now. Should you have any questions, please feel free to ask. You know this is Zope2 and not Plone? Indeed. I hope I have shown in the past, that I'm able to distinguish between the two. And what is appropriate and sensible for Zope2 with its many different consumers. Plone might be a major consumer of Zope2, but it's not the only one. Since I only use Zope2 as a base for Plone, I do have a certain bias. Wait, you say 2.12 and 2.13, what about 2.11 and before? Sorry, I have to pick my playground. The non-eggified Zope2 releases are very different in their release procedures. I find that process to be tedious and no fun at all, so I'm not going to spent my free time on it. Should nobody else step up to act as a release manager for those releases, they will be unsupported. Are you a new Andreas? Nobody can replace Andreas and the tremendous amount of time and dedication he has shown. Personally I do not care about evangelizing Zope2 or helping out end-users on mailing lists amongst others. So no, I'm not going to do all the work Andreas did. I'm only here to help out as a release manager, whose job it is to get stable releases out. I do read the developers mailing lists and watch the bug trackers, I don't read any users mailing list or see it as my job to fix or respond to every bug anyone reports. What about that Plone release manager position? I am currently the release manager for Plone 5. We have clarified the overall roadmap for Plone 5, and we aren't going to work on any of the formal release parts for the next 12 months or longer. The current focus is on the Plone 4.x release series, where Eric Steele serves as the release manager. So while I'm going to keep my post as a Plone release manager, it currently doesn't involve any time commitments. What about Zope 2.14 or beyond? Nobody knows yet. We will see once we get there. My formal commitment is for 2.12 and 2.13. Are you insane? Maybe a little bit. But seriously if anyone knows anyone else who would be interested in this job, speak up. I haven't seen anyone else since Andreas stepped down. And I happen to work for a company which is 100% dependent on Zope / Plone for their income stream. While I'm doing this in my spare time, I do have a very real need for Zope2 releases. I'm planning to make a 2.12.4 release on Easter Monday (April 5). You have until then to ask questions and complain :) An enthusiastic +1 from me: I think you are an ideal candidate for the job. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkuzZSsACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ7lKgCdFc0gLLMRen1+OsARfge6nCtO jKEAoIDQ+ipXNheOGWNFLyYzC9MuGTWT =1ld2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Summary of this weeks' meeting (2010-03-30)
Hi, here's this week's summary. For those of you who can't/don't participate in those meetings, there's the open question about how useful you consider my summaries to be. Please tell! Also in short: we decided to keep going with the meetings, so I'd be happy to see you guys next week in #zope. (Hopefully without screwing up the time then.) Christian -- Christian Theune · c...@gocept.com gocept gmbh co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 0 · fax +49 345 1229889 1 Zope and Plone consulting and development ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Summary of this weeks' meeting (2010-03-30)
On 03/31/2010 05:16 PM, Christian Theune wrote: Hi, here's this week's summary. That was a lie. Here's the summary. -- Christian Theune · c...@gocept.com gocept gmbh co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 0 · fax +49 345 1229889 1 Zope and Plone consulting and development = Weekly Zope developer meeting = This is the summary of the weekly Zope developer meeting which happened on Tuesday, 2010-03-30 on #z...@irc.freenode.org from 2pm to 2:45pm (UTC). Unfortunately the scheduled time was mixed up due me forgetting about the recent switch from CET to CEST in my place. The agenda for this meeting is available in the mailing list archives: https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2010-March/039860.html The IRC logs are located here: http://zope3.pov.lt/irclogs-zope/%23zope.2010-03-30.log.html#t2010-03-30T17:00:52 Bug tracking We discussed how to establish a better routine for dealing with the bugs we receive, e.g. fixing, triaging, ... Two supplementary approaches solidified: taking up on bug days again and running automatic checks to warn us if new bugs aren't dealt with for a longer period of time. Bug days Bug days seemed to have disappeared because nobody stepped up for organizing them. Christian Theune volunteered to organize a bug day in April. We'll see how that works out and figure out how to deal with them regularly later on. To allow people from multiple time zones to join in comfortably the bug day will span a longer period in time, probably starting around 9am CEST for Europeans allowing the Americas-based developers to join in later. Bug days also could be a good way to allow fresh developers to pick up somethign easy and get immediate assistance with the process and internals. For that the moderator of the bug day should be prepared to help others with fixing bugs and documenting process-related issues along the way. Checking for orphaned bugs -- Charlie Clarke volunteered to try writing a script that uses Launchpad's API to poll for bugs that have been sitting without a developer paying attention for too long and sending mail to zope-tests accordingly. Christian Theune will assist him. Proposed API changes vs. moving towards Python 3 = Our current Python compatibility target is 2.6 with 2to3 converting for compatibility with 3.1. We're still in a chicken-egg situation with Python 3 as both libraries and important parts of the toolchain (packaging, testing) aren't compatible with Python 3 yet. The ZTK as a large set of libraries is a part of the problem itself for many consumers. There was preliminary work by various people, especially Martin von Löwis that is bringing the packaging utilities to Python 3. From our perspective we need to first get the BTK (bicycle toolkit) and especially testing infrastructure to run on Python 2.6 and 3.1 before dealing with further pacakges. This seems to be a good task for a sprint. (The next upcoming sprints are: Plone Symposium East in late May, EuroPython in July, and DZUG in September) As Lennart Regebro brought this topic onto the agenda but wasn't present due to the DST confusion we'll raise it again next time to allow him to express his view on the topic. Meta: Reviewing the weekly meeting experiment = Tres, Charlie, and Stephan expressed they find the weekly meetings helpful and would like them to continue. To make them viable in the long run Christian Theune will try to find a second person that can take over organizing the meetings when he's not around. Charlie also noted that short time and agenda are helpful. In the future we'll have to figure out how to keep track of the open issues that we put on the backburner. Christian Theune will check whether Launchpad or another specialised web application might help with that. The meeting summaries have been found useful, although the participants of the IRC meetings suspect that those developers that could not join may find them even more useful. Feedback from the mailinglist (hey, are you reading this?) would be welcome. People asked for the agenda/notification mail to include an ICS file. Christian Theune can't do that with his tool chain and the Google calendar at http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/5f83vmc2vka8vbmvr4ck79m...@group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics seems to have timezone issues, too. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Summary of this weeks' meeting (2010-03-30)
On Mar 31, 2010, at 11:16 AM, Christian Theune wrote: Hi, here's this week's summary. For those of you who can't/don't participate in those meetings, there's the open question about how useful you consider my summaries to be. Please tell! I read them and appreciate them. Thank you. Gary ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Summary of this weeks' meeting (2010-03-30)
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Christian Theune c...@gocept.com wrote: For those of you who can't/don't participate in those meetings, there's the open question about how useful you consider my summaries to be. +1 for summaries. At a minimum they make me feel like a bad person for not participating more. ;) -- Benji York ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Summary of this weeks' meeting (2010-03-30)
Christian Theune wrote: Hi, here's this week's summary. For those of you who can't/don't participate in those meetings, there's the open question about how useful you consider my summaries to be. Please tell! Also in short: we decided to keep going with the meetings, so I'd be happy to see you guys next week in #zope. (Hopefully without screwing up the time then.) Christian I find the summaries useful. They give good insight into what is happening for people like me who mostly use this list to get news about the progress of Zope. Thanks! Paul ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
On 31/03/10 17:07, Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hanno Schlichting wrote: snip I'm planning to make a 2.12.4 release on Easter Monday (April 5). You have until then to ask questions and complain :) An enthusiastic +1 from me: I think you are an ideal candidate for the job. Tres Seaver Same enthusiastic support and thanks from me ! -- Godefroid Chapelle (aka __gotcha) http://bubblenet.be ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Summary of this weeks' meeting (2010-03-30)
On 31/03/10 17:17, Christian Theune wrote: The meeting summaries have been found useful, although the participants of the IRC meetings suspect that those developers that could not join may find them even more useful. Feedback from the mailinglist (hey, are you reading this?) would be welcome. I am reading them ! And pleased that the meetings happen. Thanks Christian -- Godefroid Chapelle (aka __gotcha) http://bubblenet.be ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
Terrific. Thanks! ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Summary of this weeks' meeting (2010-03-30)
+1 for meetings, logs, and summaries! Good job! ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Summary of this weeks' meeting (2010-03-30)
Hi, On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Christian Theune c...@gocept.com wrote: For those of you who can't/don't participate in those meetings, there's the open question about how useful you consider my summaries to be. Please tell! I like to read those summaries, since they gave me an quick insight of what's going on in Zope world. Thanks! Jonathan ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] NEO High Performance Distributed Fault Tolerant ZODB Storage
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:32 AM, Vincent Pelletier vinc...@nexedi.comwrote: Hi, I would like to present you the NEOPPOD project, aiming at improving ZODB Storage scalability. The implementation is in a rather good shape, although it fails at a few ZODB tests at the moment (they are currently being worked on). Scalability is achieved by distributing data over multiple servers (replication and load balancing) with the ability to extend/reduce cluster on-line. Congrats! A few questions that you may want to add in a FAQ. - NEO replaces FileStorage? Maybe typo? - What is the gain of using NEO over relstorage + mysql replication? - Why not include ZODB 3.10/Python 2.6 as a goal of the project? - I understand *today* the technologies use python 2.4 but ZODB 3.10/Plone 4/Zope 2.12 use python 2.6 - NEO is a different protocol than ZEO? - What is the Blob story with NEO? - Any issues with 32bit vs 64bit - Backup/restore strategy of NEO Other notes: - Maybe explain the goal of the project clearer: NEO provides distributed, redundant and transactional storage designed for petabytes of persistent (python?) objects. - A buildout for NEO would lower bar for evaluation - How do you plan on storing petabytes in a single MySQL server? since that is the data structure backend for NEO? Looking forward to reading the petrinet article - please send update when it comes out. cheers alan ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Wanted: representatives from Zope 2, grok, and BlueBream to engineer ZTK 1.0 release
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 14:47, Hanno Schlichting ha...@hannosch.eu wrote: Since I just stepped up as the Zope2 release manager, I'd be happy to be involved and help out with this. Pending any objections against me as a release manager that is :) Great! I'm probably not going to be able to drive the ZTK process. And I don't think you should, because honestly, some other people need to work too, sometimes. :) But as the Zope 2 representative in the ZTK release manager comm...kaba...group, you'd be perfect. -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: 3.4.1 KGS?
Hi, Marius Gedminas a écrit : On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 01:37:47PM +0200, Christian Theune wrote: On 03/31/2010 12:35 PM, Adam GROSZER wrote: One point for the next agenda: As Marius also had the issue to do a KGS 3.4.1. Mostly I wanted to know if anybody was using the KGS in production and interested in a point release. I do I'm already using all the minor versions upgrades, this is also some kind of unreleased 3.4.1. So, my plan of action is: * fix zope.sendmail using the approach discussed on this list a few weeks ago * look at other possible bugfix upgrades, see if there are any important bugs fixed (zope.release's bin/list-latest is useful here) It would be good to have a tool (bin/upgrade-minor or something) to upgrade package versions of a buildout to the highest minor release available. I remember that bin/list-latest only works for the Maybe it already exists? * bump ZODB3, zope.sendmail, zope.security versions in the 3.4 KGS, see what buildbot things of this * try to get a 3.4.1 release out of the door -- this is where I'm fuzzy. I think I used to have ssh access to download.zope.org, but I don't even remember how you're supposed to use zope.release's bin/upload, and I never knew how the releases were made. I had helped a bit for the 3.4.0 release, I still remember a few things, particularly about zope.release or zope.kgs. However I did'nt have any ssh access. But I can probably help. Christophe Marius Gedminas ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2: Reducing C dependencies
Charlie Clark wrote: Am 31.03.2010, 13:54 Uhr, schrieb Martin Aspelioptilude+li...@gmail.com: Why -1 if it's just about windows binaries? Because I don't think that, if this were the case, this would be the best solution to the problem. What would be a better solution? Windows is sometimes treated as a second class citizen development platform, probably due to developer preference (my own included). There are a lot of people who either prefer Windows or have no choice whether to use it, though. If we can serve them better, with more timely releases that deviate less from our other code, that's a huge win, and reason enough to do this in itself, IMHO. Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Summary of this weeks' meeting (2010-03-30)
Christian Theune wrote: Hi, here's this week's summary. For those of you who can't/don't participate in those meetings, there's the open question about how useful you consider my summaries to be. Please tell! Also in short: we decided to keep going with the meetings, so I'd be happy to see you guys next week in #zope. (Hopefully without screwing up the time then.) Big +1 for meetings and another big +1 for summaries. Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2: Reducing C dependencies
On Wednesday 31 March 2010, Martin Aspeli wrote: Windows is sometimes treated as a second class citizen development platform, probably due to developer preference (my own included). There are a lot of people who either prefer Windows or have no choice whether to use it, though. If we can serve them better, with more timely releases that deviate less from our other code, that's a huge win, and reason enough to do this in itself, IMHO. I agree. Regards, Stephan -- Entrepreneur and Software Geek Google me. Zope Stephan Richter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
Hanno Schlichting wrote: Hi there, I was in too much of a good mood while having some vacation. So I thought I need more work to do :) I'd like to step up as the release manager for Zope2 for the 2.12 and 2.13 (trunk) releases. Sucke^H^H^H^H^H Good man! Very happy you're doing this. I was going to try to prod you into doing this, but thought it'd be cruel. You're the perfect person for the job. I'm planning to make a 2.12.4 release on Easter Monday (April 5). You have until then to ask questions and complain :) Great news. There are some important bug fixes in there. What's the next step? I'd love to see some roadmapping ala that you did for Plone 5, in particular to discuss our WSGI story (which I'm interested in helping out with if others can help too). Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martin Aspeli wrote: What's the next step? I'd love to see some roadmapping ala that you did for Plone 5, in particular to discuss our WSGI story (which I'm interested in helping out with if others can help too). FWIW, I'm scheduled to sprint on finishing my cleanup of ZPublisher.WSGIResponse with the WebLion guys at or around PSE in May. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkuz/PEACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ5QSgCffb6Rzr9KUccbXszw3zUGoNgz 2osAnAuSXjLzz4vMAOUGMq+W9fCkUu/6 =M+wo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope2 - Release Manager
Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martin Aspeli wrote: What's the next step? I'd love to see some roadmapping ala that you did for Plone 5, in particular to discuss our WSGI story (which I'm interested in helping out with if others can help too). FWIW, I'm scheduled to sprint on finishing my cleanup of ZPublisher.WSGIResponse with the WebLion guys at or around PSE in May. That's awesome! :-) Is there a list somewhere about what remains of this work, i.e. what's broken and what features are missing? Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.13 roadmap
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:49 AM, Martin Aspeli optilude+li...@gmail.com wrote: What's the next step? I'd love to see some roadmapping ala that you did for Plone 5, in particular to discuss our WSGI story (which I'm interested in helping out with if others can help too). There's no big roadmap yet, but I have some ideas :) In general I'd like to avoid a major Zope release, that isn't used by an official Plone release. Zope 2.11 hasn't seen much attention and we had to maintain 2.10 anyways. But if there's a decent and stable feature set that other consumers like to get there hands on, we can get them a release. I just won't be pushing into that direction. Here's what I can see today: There's a bunch of stuff already done as noted in http://svn.zope.org/Zope/trunk/doc/CHANGES.rst?view=markup. - zope.app removal This project is all finished. Zope2 doesn't contain any trace of zope.app or the name Zope 3 in itself nor its dependencies anymore. - Moving formlib out of the core Triggered by the above and finished as well. Zope trunk doesn't contain any trace of formlib anymore. The relevant code is now in the five.formlib package. This package is also included in Zope 2.12, so you can start using the functionality and be compatible with both Zope versions. CMF does this already. - WSGI I cannot tell at the moment. It's going to depend on the actual changes required to get this to work. Since there is some broken WSGI support inside the 2.12 codebase, we can claim a certain deal of changes as bugfixes. But there's limits to what we can warrant as a bugfix. If the code changes are self-contained and only touch the broken WSGI modules, we are good. If we require changes all over the board for whatever reasons, this will have to be a new feature and go into Zope 2.13. Only a branch with actual code will tell :) - ZTK As long as there's no formal release of the ZTK or a defined and stable process around it, Zope 2 defines its own KGS. It so happens to use exactly the same versions as the current ZTK trunk. Once we are making progress on the ZTK release, we'll see how Zope 2 can use such a release. My current guess is that Zope 2.13 will use some ZTK 1.1 release. - Five deprecation I did a whole bunch of work on this already and keep working on it. The end goal is to be able to deprecate the entire Products.Five and phase it out of the core. Actually useful functionality in it, is integrated into the proper places inside the Zope2 core packages instead. Like security stuff in AccessControl, container events in OFS, reading site.zcml and setting up the CA in Zope2/App and so forth. There's a number of hard cases, where there's some semantic differences between zope.* packages and their Five equivalent, especially in the browser realm. This project might not be completely finished for 2.13. And yes, there's some difficult questions with non-obvious answers around this. We'll deal with them once we get there. I'm focussing on the obvious parts first. - Reduce C code in Zope 2 My first part of this was discussed and implemented. The remaining C code inside the Zope 2 distribution is in AccessControl, DocumentTemplate and ZCTextIndex. We'll see what to do about them, once their packages are actually self-contained. - Make Zope 2 more modular This is related to the above two points. I'm not quite sure about the details of the implementation yet. But in general it would be nice, if a consumer of Zope 2 could use it's core, without getting a whole bunch of stuff it doesn't want. The obvious example here is Plone, which continues to use less and less code from Zope 2, but has no chance of making a radical cut and loose it all. There's interesting problems, like being able to use Zope 2 without the ZMI. In some sense this is similar to using the ZTK instead of zope.app. The only thing I know for sure, is that I'd like to first make the packages inside Zope 2 standalone and reusable and only once they are, break them into more distributions. We've gone the other way around with Zope 3 and it has cost a whole lot of pain. - ZODB 3.10 Jim promised a second alpha release to be out shortly. Should be low risk to upgrade to it. The multi-threaded ZEO server promises some good improvements. - Python 2.7 This would be 2.7 support in addition to the existing 2.6. Last time I checked all Zope 2 tests passed. But there where some hairy looking test failures in zope.proxy and some more in RestrictedPython. RestrictedPython will also need a new security review to make sure it continues to work with 2.7. - Python 3.x Not on the agenda. We'll need to tackle this on the ZTK level first. For an actual timeline, it seems autumn this year is the earliest any 2.13 could come out, so it properly supports Python 2.7 and we have something definitive on the ZTK matter. But I'm not going to rush this and it's somewhat more likely we'll end up with an ever later release and match the Plone 5 release schedule. All that said,
