[Zope-dev] Zope has been Hijacked! Save Zope!
Thanks Andrew for a heartfelt description of what is happening here. It is clear that unlike the other freeware products like Lenux, JBoss.., Zope has lost all of the advantages of being a freeware product. What I find sad is that the extreme commercialization of Zope is hurting Zope- this discussion list is censored in a way that would not be allowed for most commercial products. I posted a serious bug- Zope throws an exception after trying to resolve a transaction conflict three times. The discussion was quickly moved line and I was told this is not a problem- Not a problem? Give me a break!! This nearly killed my application and cost me several weeks of work. Those who know of these problems can write clean applications but these issues are kept strictly confidential. To the *TRUE* open source community I would just say let us reclaim Zope-even if it means branching. Clark --- Andrew Kenneth Milton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I seem to be the cause of all hell breaking loose over here, I thought take the opportunity to respond, since I haven't really been given an opportunity to do that. Since this probably going to be my only ever posting to zope-dev, I don't feel constrained to be brief in exercising my right of reply. I'm not going to apologise for the comments I made, or the manner in which I made them. Those comments were made on a list run by me, basically for my own amusement. If I had posted either of those emails to someone else's list, I'd quite rightly deserve to be fried. I don't make money from Zope Development (I don't make money), I don't run a website, in fact, I don't actually use any of the products I have released. So it's not like I have a vested interest in Zope. My fortunes don't rest on the success or failure of Zope or any one of its components. I live in a country the size of the USA that has the approximate population of New York State. Even if I stood on a busy street corner with a loud hailer, the number of people I could actually influence would be small. This makes me one of the people in the trenches. It is the people who are in the trenches who are increasingly being disaffected by Zope Corp, it seems as if you're not subscribed to zope-dev, you have no voice, and for most people zope-dev is not an appropriate forum for them to be subscribed to. As some of you know, I was hounded off of the zope@ mailing list for suggesting that there be some other mailing list for more technical discussion. People were very upset, because, they already have a hard time getting any support. Noone from Zope Corp seems to monitor the list to help out. The zope list was manned by people like me volunteering expertise and time to help more of the little people. A lot of those people come to the irc channel, which is also rarely if ever visited by anyone from Zope Corp. Most people know that #zope is the place to go when all else fails. The major irony of this is, that most of the people seeking help on #zope are working with it, or consulting with it, and are supported by me and others for free. We are the ones that deal with the 'general zope public.' We are the defenders of the faith. The Zope Weekly News, which turned into Zope Monthly News, which now has not been updated since October is a joke. It shows Zope Corporation's attitude towards their community. It says We don't care about our community. I'm sure that's not the feeling of the *individuals* inside Zope Corp, I'm sure it is (or I hope it is) a source of great embarassment to those individuals that work for Zope Corp. Letting your community showpiece atrophy doesn't show any great passion towards us, it certainly doesn't endear new users to Zope. New users are the only way Zope Corp is going to make more money, unless of course zope.org is just for us non-revenue generating little fish, an inconvenience associated with having Open Source software, not something that promotes and supports the non-paying community. Noone wants a standardised User Management API more than me. I *want* to have confidence that someone can replace any User Folder with XUF, and it will just work. So when I come across something that says there is a New User Management API, I get excited. I prepare to roll up my sleeves and make the necessary changes to make software I contributed to the community continue to work. I think we all know by now my opinion on what I found, the harshness of the expression of that opinion is directly related to the way that these days Zope Corp seems to be an Ivory Tower and the way they seem to treat the community at large. There are approximately 450 products released by just over 200 people on Zope.org. There are approximately 1000 'entities' subscribed to this list (more to the main list), I represent 0.1% of this community, but, am responsible (but, not
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope has been Hijacked! Save Zope!
Chris McDonough wrote: Those who know of these problems can write clean applications but these issues are kept strictly confidential. Isn't this dangerously close to a conspiracy theory? Yes, he's right -- we hid the information on this top-secret thing called the World Wide Web: http://www.zope.org/Members/jim/ZODB/ApplicationLevelConflictResolution Muhahaha! --Paul ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope has been Hijacked! Save Zope!
Troll! And a funny one at that. (I think.) seb * Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] [011130 16:28]: I can't decide if this is a hoax or not :-S Can anyone comment? Chris Clark O'Brien wrote: Thanks Andrew for a heartfelt description of what is happening here. It is clear that unlike the other freeware products like Lenux, JBoss.., Zope has lost all of the advantages of being a freeware product. What I find sad is that the extreme commercialization of Zope is hurting Zope- this discussion list is censored in a way that would not be allowed for most commercial products. I posted a serious bug- Zope throws an exception after trying to resolve a transaction conflict three times. The discussion was quickly moved line and I was told this is not a problem- Not a problem? Give me a break!! This nearly killed my application and cost me several weeks of work. Those who know of these problems can write clean applications but these issues are kept strictly confidential. To the *TRUE* open source community I would just say let us reclaim Zope-even if it means branching. Clark --- Andrew Kenneth Milton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I seem to be the cause of all hell breaking loose over here, I thought take the opportunity to respond, since I haven't really been given an opportunity to do that. Since this probably going to be my only ever posting to zope-dev, I don't feel constrained to be brief in exercising my right of reply. I'm not going to apologise for the comments I made, or the manner in which I made them. Those comments were made on a list run by me, basically for my own amusement. If I had posted either of those emails to someone else's list, I'd quite rightly deserve to be fried. I don't make money from Zope Development (I don't make money), I don't run a website, in fact, I don't actually use any of the products I have released. So it's not like I have a vested interest in Zope. My fortunes don't rest on the success or failure of Zope or any one of its components. I live in a country the size of the USA that has the approximate population of New York State. Even if I stood on a busy street corner with a loud hailer, the number of people I could actually influence would be small. This makes me one of the people in the trenches. It is the people who are in the trenches who are increasingly being disaffected by Zope Corp, it seems as if you're not subscribed to zope-dev, you have no voice, and for most people zope-dev is not an appropriate forum for them to be subscribed to. As some of you know, I was hounded off of the zope@ mailing list for suggesting that there be some other mailing list for more technical discussion. People were very upset, because, they already have a hard time getting any support. Noone from Zope Corp seems to monitor the list to help out. The zope list was manned by people like me volunteering expertise and time to help more of the little people. A lot of those people come to the irc channel, which is also rarely if ever visited by anyone from Zope Corp. Most people know that #zope is the place to go when all else fails. The major irony of this is, that most of the people seeking help on #zope are working with it, or consulting with it, and are supported by me and others for free. We are the ones that deal with the 'general zope public.' We are the defenders of the faith. The Zope Weekly News, which turned into Zope Monthly News, which now has not been updated since October is a joke. It shows Zope Corporation's attitude towards their community. It says We don't care about our community. I'm sure that's not the feeling of the *individuals* inside Zope Corp, I'm sure it is (or I hope it is) a source of great embarassment to those individuals that work for Zope Corp. Letting your community showpiece atrophy doesn't show any great passion towards us, it certainly doesn't endear new users to Zope. New users are the only way Zope Corp is going to make more money, unless of course zope.org is just for us non-revenue generating little fish, an inconvenience associated with having Open Source software, not something that promotes and supports the non-paying community. Noone wants a standardised User Management API more than me. I *want* to have confidence that someone can replace any User Folder with XUF, and it will just work. So when I come across something that says there is a New User Management API, I get excited. I prepare to roll up my sleeves and make the necessary changes to make software I contributed to the community continue to work. I think we all know by now my opinion on what I
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope has been Hijacked! Save Zope!
Clark, sorry to be blunt, but you're talking through your arse! you make some v. wild statements and offer no justification for them: i can only conclude that the application you refer to in fact suffered from the same flawed methodology... if you can be bothered, i would be interested to know exactly what it is you mean by the following: 1. Zope has lost all of the advantages of being a freeware product 2. the extreme commercialization of Zope is hurting Zope 3. these issues [bugs] are kept strictly confidential how is it you go about reclaiming something that was never yours? garry On 30 Nov 2001, at 10:03, Clark OBrien wrote: From: Clark OBrien [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:[Zope-dev] Zope has been Hijacked! Save Zope! Date sent: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:03:47 -0600 Thanks Andrew for a heartfelt description of what is happening here. It is clear that unlike the other freeware products like Lenux, JBoss.., Zope has lost all of the advantages of being a freeware product. What I find sad is that the extreme commercialization of Zope is hurting Zope- this discussion list is censored in a way that would not be allowed for most commercial products. I posted a serious bug- Zope throws an exception after trying to resolve a transaction conflict three times. The discussion was quickly moved line and I was told this is not a problem- Not a problem? Give me a break!! This nearly killed my application and cost me several weeks of work. Those who know of these problems can write clean applications but these issues are kept strictly confidential. To the *TRUE* open source community I would just say let us reclaim Zope-even if it means branching. Clark ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) +---+ Garry Steedman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Styrax Associates http://www.styrax.com/ The Good Man has no shape. +---+ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope has been Hijacked! Save Zope!
Chris, I posted the bug at 11/30/2001 11:17 AM, a copy was also sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am using a different e-mail now because my other e-mail address no longer receives messages from zope-dev. Clark --- Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I posted a serious bug- Zope throws an exception after trying to resolve a transaction conflict three times. The discussion was quickly moved Posted to where? I see this message in neither Zope-Dev@ nor Zope@. line and I was told this is not a problem- Not a problem? Give me a break!! This nearly killed my application and cost me several weeks of work. Told by whom? Those who know of these problems can write clean applications but these issues are kept strictly confidential. Isn't this dangerously close to a conspiracy theory? ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope has been Hijacked! Save Zope!
I posted the bug at 11/30/2001 11:17 AM... snip That's less than two hours ago. I didn't get the mail nor do I see it on Zope-dev. Is your assertion that I or someone else prevented it from showing up on Zope-dev? Who exactly was it that told you it wasn't a problem, and in what manner did they say it? Your complaint would be pretty funny if I knew that you weren't serious. It's actually pretty funny either way, come to think of it. ;-) - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
