Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: semi-stretchable Would be nice if IE supported min-width and max-width in css. It doesn't. The only way I've seen anyone get that to work in IE is with some nasty javascript hack. We can keep going down this road though, fine with me. We'll be here for literally weeks and months going through all of the pros and cons of fixed vs. fluid layouts that have been debated for years. There is no right answer. I'm not out to discuss this stuff for weeks and months at all, I'm just asking fairly reasonable questions from the perspective of someone who doesn't know much about the intricacies of web site layouts. To answer my own question, it's clear from your response it *is* very difficult to make it semi stretchable, so we will let it be for now. We can always come back to it later. [snip] p.p.s. I will be working on the Linux rendering issues which is actually a good example of the real challenges with web design. Getting a standards based site to look good on IE an Firefox on a PC is a (nightmarish at times) challenge alone (mostly thanks to IE's lack of standards support). Getting it to work on every browser on every OS and look good is a boatload of work. My focus is to do just that while keeping the html and css *clean* and free of hacks and javascript as much as possible. Also, keeping the html reusable to easily implement future design changes and as maintenance free as possible. I'm surprised Firefox on linux is so different from Firefox on other platforms. [snip] Right now the biggest problem that Zope, zope.org as well as other zope products/properties suffers from is useability and marketing. The least of any problems is what color the sites are, whether the pages are fluid or fixed width or whatever. The real problem is that no knows what Zope is, how it works or how to use the sites. Look, you're doing a web design and you can reasonably expect some feedback from people. It's not a complete disaster. Ranting about how terrible I am for asking a few simple questions is not very productive either. If something is hard to do or unwise, I'm sure it can be communicated in a way that's a little bit less confrontational. Sorry for the rant back. :) Lets get past these basic design issues, get a test site up and running and start getting our hands dirty. Lets implement the html and css and then get down to brass tacks and start the *real* work of editorializing the content so that it's understandable to newcomers as well as veterans, making content easily accessible and clearly labeled, providing easy to use interfaces and functionality. This is exactly what I'm doing. I'm already editorializing content, it's just that nobody seems to be very interested in discussing *that* on this mailing list so far. Anyway, quite apart from this mini-debate, I'm still grateful for your efforts, so thank you again. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
On 9/4/06, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is 800x600 that common these days? Hardly by people that would be interested in Zope, right? Anyway, I think the important decision here is to make it readable. And that means that the content column should not fill out the whole page. On a 1600 pixel widescreen that looks like shit. And the content column is a good size now, and it looks fine on my 1024 screen. On my widescreen, it looks weird, but not as weird as it would look with wider content column. This design is good. In fact, it's great. If we really want to use up more screen space, we could move the extras to a separate column, but I like the current way better. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 4 Sep 2006, at 10:26, Martijn Faassen wrote: o Trading in having the space on the sides for less control over all page layouts. I'm going for functional control in this case over a prettier layout. o The current page is laid out to work on 800 x 600 and above. Most people will view the site at 1024 x 786 or 800 x 600 and not see large gaps on the side. Is 800x600 that common these days? It is very common to have users who will see scrollbars with fixed 1024 width designs. Including me on the 12 iBook. One reason I normally hate fixed width designs with a passion is because I get scrollbars, most designs seem to be fixed for 1024 pixel screens. Here's an example of a fixed width design that was fixed at a width too big for my screen: http://www.zope.de/ I can't stand it. Tom made a wise choice. And please don't add columns to make it wider. jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFE++muRAx5nvEhZLIRAgdIAJ4gQLBm6En/w9/qUY63sYzNP+IGDQCffN+f 3btNoafiD2ygpxScBYFK5ns= =AlIA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Lennart Regebro wrote: On 9/4/06, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is 800x600 that common these days? Hardly by people that would be interested in Zope, right? Trying it again on a 1200x1024 screen, with a window not full-screen so it's more like 1024 (my usual browser side), I still get sizable blue on both sides. Anyway, I think the important decision here is to make it readable. And that means that the content column should not fill out the whole page. On a 1600 pixel widescreen that looks like shit. And the content column is a good size now, and it looks fine on my 1024 screen. On my widescreen, it looks weird, but not as weird as it would look with wider content column. It seems to me we're debating a strawman argument. I don't think anybody is debating the text should stretch fully. All I am saying: with the current style, I see a lot of blue that does nothing. I think there are ways to make this less of a problem: * make the text area wider. Still fixed, but wider. * add a sidebar on the left like in version 3 design 1. * there are ways to make the design flow up to a point, but not all the way. I don't know how hard this is to accomplish, but I believe I've seen it done. This design is good. In fact, it's great. If we really want to use up more screen space, we could move the extras to a separate column, but I like the current way better. I'd prefer the extras to be in a separate column indeed, and I like them as they are in version 3 of design 1. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Jens Vagelpohl wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 4 Sep 2006, at 10:26, Martijn Faassen wrote: o Trading in having the space on the sides for less control over all page layouts. I'm going for functional control in this case over a prettier layout. o The current page is laid out to work on 800 x 600 and above. Most people will view the site at 1024 x 786 or 800 x 600 and not see large gaps on the side. Is 800x600 that common these days? It is very common to have users who will see scrollbars with fixed 1024 width designs. Including me on the 12 iBook. One reason I normally hate fixed width designs with a passion is because I get scrollbars, most designs seem to be fixed for 1024 pixel screens. Here's an example of a fixed width design that was fixed at a width too big for my screen: http://www.zope.de/ I can't stand it. Tom made a wise choice. And please don't add columns to make it wider. Good point; I get scrollbars on that site as well (on a 1200 wide screen this time, but I almost never maximize my browser). That's a good argument against content boxes on the right side, at least in a fixed design. I wonder whether it would be very difficult/unwise to make the content area semi-stretchable as one can see on some sites. That is, doesn't stretch all the way on a wide screen, but stretches/compresses partially. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 4 Sep 2006, at 11:01, Martijn Faassen wrote: Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: o The simple nature of the site means a thinner page is more appropriate. Most of the content will be text that is easier to read the less wide the page is. This is not some multi column news site that has multiple content boxes. My intent with this layout round was not to create a layout for just the Zope Foundation site, but for it to work for the Zope site as a whole (eventually; we'll take this step by step, where the ZF site is the first step). Some room for content boxes would therefore be nice, though I expect it wouldn't be used on every page. I don't know whether that will change anything in your thinking about the layout, I just wanted to be clear that we're not just working on the Zope Foundation site here - that's just the first stage. An alternative would be to have separate designs for Foundation and the rest of the site. Anyone have opinions on whether this is a good or bad idea? I was under the impression that the two were separate and we were trying to decide on a design for the foundation first, because that site should be up ASAP. I fear if we try to come up with a design for both we'll end up in analysis paralysis again. +1 for a separate foundation site design in the interest of getting the site *done*. Whether that same design ends up on zope.org as a whole is a decision we could take later. jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFE+/ubRAx5nvEhZLIRAq6zAJ9iirqoULew9wrD/YsNGwOvT/jlOwCeMAip W0ISciS5//2QUyOtzu4sIH8= =/n8w -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Jens Vagelpohl wrote: An alternative would be to have separate designs for Foundation and the rest of the site. Anyone have opinions on whether this is a good or bad idea? I was under the impression that the two were separate and we were trying to decide on a design for the foundation first, because that site should be up ASAP. I fear if we try to come up with a design for both we'll end up in analysis paralysis again. +1 for a separate foundation site design in the interest of getting the site *done*. Whether that same design ends up on zope.org as a whole is a decision we could take later. Convincing argument for keeping the layouts separate (for now at least). Anyway, the main show-stopper right now is that the nav doesn't work in Firefox 1.5 on Linux. All the other issues are things we could easily tweak later. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
semi-stretchable Would be nice if IE supported min-width and max-width in css. It doesn't. The only way I've seen anyone get that to work in IE is with some nasty javascript hack. We can keep going down this road though, fine with me. We'll be here for literally weeks and months going through all of the pros and cons of fixed vs. fluid layouts that have been debated for years. There is no right answer. p.s. Lennart, 1600 wide? Are you serious? Regardless of monitor size, do you actually leave your browser window open to that size? In all the stats I've seen 1600 represents 0% to 1% of users and I'd imagine most sites look like shit at that size (in the rare case, I'd imagine, that the user has the browser set to full screen). p.p.s. I will be working on the Linux rendering issues which is actually a good example of the real challenges with web design. Getting a standards based site to look good on IE an Firefox on a PC is a (nightmarish at times) challenge alone (mostly thanks to IE's lack of standards support). Getting it to work on every browser on every OS and look good is a boatload of work. My focus is to do just that while keeping the html and css *clean* and free of hacks and javascript as much as possible. Also, keeping the html reusable to easily implement future design changes and as maintenance free as possible. p.p.p.s. Jens hit the nail on the head. Believe it or not, but 800 x 600 still represents ~20% of users and I'd rather not have them have to scroll horizontally to get to content. Thats *way* worse than having extra space on the sides. Really, guys, what all of this boils down to is that with all of the various browsers, OSs, screen resolutions, javascript support etc. there can be no one size fits them all answer. Designing a good site is about getting to work as well as possible for the majority of users, but at the end of the day, no matter what, some users are not going to like it. It annoys me that digg.com is fixed for 1024 because when I have my bookmarks sidebar open in Firefox I have to scroll horizontally or close my bookmarks. Great site though and I go to it every day. It bugs me that cnn.com has inconsistent navigation throughout the site. I go to cnn.com for news all the time. Although these features annoy me I'm sure they have valid reasons for doing them and they don't prevent me from using the site. Right now the biggest problem that Zope, zope.org as well as other zope products/properties suffers from is useability and marketing. The least of any problems is what color the sites are, whether the pages are fluid or fixed width or whatever. The real problem is that no knows what Zope is, how it works or how to use the sites. I've been using Zope and zope.org for like 7 or 8 years now and you know what, I have no clue how to add content to my page on zope.org and to upload any of the interesting products or skins Ive created. Thats a problem when people within the community can't figure stuff out, forget newcomers. Zope is better than PHP or Ruby on Rails but is getting it's a$$ kicked every single day by them because of just this kind of stuff. At this point it's a game of catch up for Zope and for any of these projects to get stalled because a website looks like shit on a 1600 pixel wide monitor is just insane. Lets get past these basic design issues, get a test site up and running and start getting our hands dirty. Lets implement the html and css and then get down to brass tacks and start the *real* work of editorializing the content so that it's understandable to newcomers as well as veterans, making content easily accessible and clearly labeled, providing easy to use interfaces and functionality. Keep this in mind too, that a many times a decision as to whether or not to use Zope for a particular project, *cough* *especially for large scale projects* *cough* (trust me, I know), will be greatly influenced by some non-technical people. If they can't go to a site and at least get a basic idea of the strengths of the product and feel comfortable with the marketing of that product they'll forget about it in 2 seconds. Its the details of this site that are much more important at the end of the day than how wide the margins of the page are. On Sep 4, 2006, at 5:08 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote: Jens Vagelpohl wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 4 Sep 2006, at 10:26, Martijn Faassen wrote: o Trading in having the space on the sides for less control over all page layouts. I'm going for functional control in this case over a prettier layout. o The current page is laid out to work on 800 x 600 and above. Most people will view the site at 1024 x 786 or 800 x 600 and not see large gaps on the side. Is 800x600 that common these days? It is very common to have users who will see scrollbars with fixed
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
On 9/4/06, Tom Von Lahndorff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: p.s. Lennart, 1600 wide? Are you serious? Regardless of monitor size, do you actually leave your browser window open to that size? Hmm. Nah, you are probably right, if it's that wide you don't. I have 1200, though, and I have the browser maximized, yes. In fact, I have most windows maximized all the time. :) I definitely prefer a fixed width for the content column in any case. p.p.p.s. Jens hit the nail on the head. Believe it or not, but 800 x 600 still represents ~20% of users and I'd rather not have them have to scroll horizontally to get to content. Thats *way* worse than having extra space on the sides. Yup. ps. I said it before, but pressed the wrong button, so only Martijn saw it: It might be worth setting the sizes in pt instead of px, so that it works better with large font sizes. No biggie, though. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: http://www.modscape.com/zope Please let me know of any bugs and what your browsers/os setup is. Zope Foundation Design 1, Version 1 While I really like the colours in general, I find the gray of the Zope Foundation in the logo image not right. Either should be darker (perhaps black?) or brighter. Either way, it needs to stand out more over the blue-grayish background. I don't see a big problem with fixed layouts. I have a hard time letting the it's a waste of space argument count. Just make your browser window smaller and you got that space on your screen back! Philipp ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2 Sep 2006, at 14:38, Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: http://www.modscape.com/zope Please let me know of any bugs and what your browsers/os setup is. Works without any visible flaws under Safari and OmniWeb and looks very nice, clear and simple. Perfect for a site that is mostly static such as the foundation site. If it were up to me I'd stop any further niggling unless there are serious problems with popular browsers and just run with the dang thing. I fully agree with Tom's previous point that every time we have some kind of new design for site X discussion it's all going round in circles and then just dies off. jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFE+sCeRAx5nvEhZLIRAh43AJ99ue7JQBW4wZylFahTiBShn2jY+QCfSYpI Yk015jACz8ux+fGH0UgHV7w= =JC69 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Perfect! (on windows, tested with firefox and ie) ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: Im trying to avoid things like: - I dont like that color. (Unless its really nasty this is 100% subjective) - Fixed width vs. Fluid layouts. (This debate has been around since tables. We need to just pick one. For every person that doesnt like the space on the side of the page with fixed width there will be another person who doesnt like the extra white space at the bottom of every page on fluid width layout) - Anything thats really subjective issue that can be debated ad infinitum. Well, on this subjective side, it seems that, for a change, a lot of people _are_ in agreement ;-) (it's a shame that you appear to be one of the few who isn't...) I want to keep momentum on this. Likewise... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: http://modscape.com/zope New Foundation page. Try the nav. Only tested on Firefox/Mac so far. Personally, I hate sites that leave whacking great margins either ide of the actual content. Not sure about the colours or shadows either. And the left nav doesn't feel like a left nav to me, just seems like some entries vanish when you click on other entries :-S So far, version 3 of design 1 is still my favourite... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Here we go again. Step 1. Propose a project to the Zope community. Step 2. Plone sucks / Plone is great battle begins, everyone complains about what they dont like. Step 3. No actual work ever gets done. Step 4. Repeat in 6 months. On Aug 28, 2006, at 5:24 AM, Chris Withers wrote: Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: http://modscape.com/zope New Foundation page. Try the nav. Only tested on Firefox/Mac so far. Personally, I hate sites that leave whacking great margins either ide of the actual content. Not sure about the colours or shadows either. And the left nav doesn't feel like a left nav to me, just seems like some entries vanish when you click on other entries :-S So far, version 3 of design 1 is still my favourite... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
On 8/28/06, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * I get text flowing into each other in the sidebar. About The Foundation overlaps whatever is on the next line, with the word Foundation on the next line. There's another such instance lower down, where it says Foundation..Projects? (can't read). This is on firefox 1.5 on linux. Hmm. Me too. But Firefox 1.5 on Windows work fine. I'll leave my comments, even though I'm protesting against this kind of design by comittee. :-) I'd prefer a top row of top categories, and a left-column of subcategories when it comes to navigaton. I don't mind leaving space at all. In fact, on a wide-screen sreen, not doing that makes the text have extremely long lines, which is hard to read. Of course, this should not be decided by margin-sizes, instead it should be the min content column that has a fixed sixe. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Lennart Regebro wrote: On 8/28/06, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * I get text flowing into each other in the sidebar. About The Foundation overlaps whatever is on the next line, with the word Foundation on the next line. There's another such instance lower down, where it says Foundation..Projects? (can't read). This is on firefox 1.5 on linux. Hmm. Me too. But Firefox 1.5 on Windows work fine. Interesting. I'll leave my comments, even though I'm protesting against this kind of design by comittee. :-) Hm. In the end once I'm happy with the design, and I am very close to being happy, we'll proceed from there, unless someone can convince me otherwise. I use my special Zope Foundation powers here. :) That said, I think feedback from a range of people can be useful. I'd prefer a top row of top categories, and a left-column of subcategories when it comes to navigaton. Yes, this is actually, I think, the same as my feedback, effectively. A top row of major categories, similar to the menu in version 3, without the dropdowns, with a sidebar of categories too. I don't mind leaving space at all. In fact, on a wide-screen sreen, not doing that makes the text have extremely long lines, which is hard to read. Of course, this should not be decided by margin-sizes, instead it should be the min content column that has a fixed sixe. Right, while some margins would be all right with me too, the version 3 layout has *smaller* margins on at least my screen, and I was looking to replicate some of that structure in the new version. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: Here we go again. Step 1. Propose a project to the Zope community. Step 2. Plone sucks / Plone is great battle begins, everyone complains about what they dont like. Step 3. No actual work ever gets done. Step 4. Repeat in 6 months. Hey Tom, thanks for your great designs. I think all of them are an improvement over the current one. One can tell you put a lot of work in them. Don't be irritated by ChrisW's occasional rants. It's not a personal thing. :) You asked for our thoughts in your original email and it seems that most people prefer Design 1 v3. Let me add my +1 to that as well. I for one think this one scales a lot better for different browser sizes than Design 2. I also think it's being brighter than Design 2 gives it a friendler tone. In fact, I think Design 1 v3 could use an even brighter blue (not too much, though)... Having to agree on a design is such a difficult task because it involves different people's tastes. We should be thankful when the consensus is as clear as it is now :). Keep up the good work, Philipp ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: Here we go again. Step 1. Propose a project to the Zope community. Step 2. Plone sucks / Plone is great battle begins, everyone complains about what they dont like. Step 3. No actual work ever gets done. Step 4. Repeat in 6 months. Er, Tom, you asked for feedback... I *like* version 3 of design 1. I *really* like all the work you've put in to this. Given a choice between the latest design going in and nothing happening, I'd choose the latest design any day of the week. Given the choice betwen the latest design and version 3 of design one, I'd choose version 3 of design 1. I'm sorry not all feedback is positive, but if you don't want it, don't ask for it... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Sorry Chris, I didnt mean to harsh on you. That was meant in fun as much as it is in truth. I dont mind any negative feedback, but what Im looking for more like: - What content do we need and where should it go. - Suggestions for better functionality (like the title bars of a table should be clickable to rank items by that criteria). - This page blows up in my browser or the nav doesnt work. - Suggestions for homepage content (News and updates RSS Feeds, Testmonials...). - Editing of text if some information is too wordy or confusing. - Site structure and content boxes, wireframes. Im trying to avoid things like: - I dont like that color. (Unless its really nasty this is 100% subjective) - Fixed width vs. Fluid layouts. (This debate has been around since tables. We need to just pick one. For every person that doesnt like the space on the side of the page with fixed width there will be another person who doesnt like the extra white space at the bottom of every page on fluid width layout) - Anything thats really subjective issue that can be debated ad infinitum. Im trying to avoid design by committee. Ive worked on like hundreds of TV and Radio websites and basically they all look a$$. This is because everyone from the morning show host to the general manager to the salespeople all b!tch and moan until they get what they want and the end product is hideous frankensite. I dont think that would happen here but I want put down the hammer anywhere I see it start to creep in. The big difference here as well is that the site will be built on Zope! This means was can all tweak it to our hearts content because it's built smart, on a flexible and scalable backend. Instead of trying to get something *great* out of the box, lets get up a *good* site and go from there and make it great. Lets get it up and running and functioning and focus on the content wrapped a good and nice design and go from there... I want to keep momentum on this. On Aug 28, 2006, at 10:23 AM, Chris Withers wrote: Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: Here we go again. Step 1. Propose a project to the Zope community. Step 2. Plone sucks / Plone is great battle begins, everyone complains about what they dont like. Step 3. No actual work ever gets done. Step 4. Repeat in 6 months. Er, Tom, you asked for feedback... I *like* version 3 of design 1. I *really* like all the work you've put in to this. Given a choice between the latest design going in and nothing happening, I'd choose the latest design any day of the week. Given the choice betwen the latest design and version 3 of design one, I'd choose version 3 of design 1. I'm sorry not all feedback is positive, but if you don't want it, don't ask for it... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
Hey, Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: - What content do we need and where should it go. I'm working on the content itself, so no need to concern yourself too much with this during the design phase, except where it's needed to flesh out the design aspects, of course. As I already mentioned, I think a top-level navigation with left sidebar for subnavigation would be nice to see (though what you have works too). Also nice for content is the ability to easily include one or more blue boxes on the right sidebar. - Suggestions for better functionality (like the title bars of a table should be clickable to rank items by that criteria). Don't think we need such functionality yet, but I'll keep my eye out for it. - This page blows up in my browser or the nav doesnt work. Right, the left menu doesn't quite work in Firefox 1.5 on linux. - Suggestions for homepage content (News and updates RSS Feeds, Testmonials...). We're first looking into the foundation homepage. I've just written some text for it. We'll have news on it too, so a RSS/Atom feed button might be nice. These questions are of course important for the zope.org homepage proper. - Editing of text if some information is too wordy or confusing. Where'd you get the text from? I wasn't sure whether you were writing text too. :) [snip] Im trying to avoid design by committee. No worries, I've unilaterally declared myself the single point you need to talk to about this layout. I can do this as I represent the Zope Foundation board and am authorized to make decisions. (and because Aroldo, my board partner on zope-web, will hopefully let me get away with it. :) Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
Re: [ZWeb] Re: website design discussion
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 26 Aug 2006, at 15:57, Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: http://modscape.com/zope New Foundation page. Try the nav. Only tested on Firefox/Mac so far. Looks and works nice on Safari as well. Should be easy to take that and fill it, even with just static content, to have a great-looking site. jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFE8FS1RAx5nvEhZLIRAmj5AJ402WtGZozIn5flAwfFzz8TV2yUVACffBVK 11fOY/Oq6bSokcfYgo+qBtY= =tWOd -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-web maillist - Zope-web@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-web
