Re: [Zope3-dev] The vision thing
Benji York wrote: Geoff Davis wrote: * What can we learn from Rails / Django / TurboGears? Fun presentation along those lines: http://oodt.jpl.nasa.gov/better-web-app.mov One of the best put together movies I've seen. Yeah, really awesome! Should have won the Oscar! ;) Another relevant link: http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2006/03/04/zend-framework-is-out/ i.e. the PHP community trying to imitate us (+ an Eclipse-based ide, for which there is also an interesting proposa, cf. http://blogs.nuxeo.com/sections/blogs/fermigier/2006_02_13_about-the-eclipse - but unfortunately not much traction). S. -- Stéfane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). Nuxeo Collaborative Portal Server: http://www.nuxeo.com/cps Gestion de contenu web / portail collaboratif / groupware / open source! ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Zope 3 / Z3ECM April sprint in Paris at Nuxeo
Nuxeo, with the kind help of the Zope team of Chalmers University, plans to organise a Zope 3 sprint on April 3-7 in our premises in Paris. The focus of the sprint, like last year's successful sprint, will be ECM (Enterprise Content Management). Last year's Paris sprint was a turning point for the Zope roadmap, when it was decided to include Five in Zope 2.8, a decision which led to the current state of the Zope landscape (CMF 2.0 / CPS 3.4 / Plone 2.5 / Silva 1.5 - all full of Zope 3 components, etc.) We hope to make similar significant advances this year. Program: The current state of Z3ECM is currently best described in these slides: http://www.z3lab.org/sections/news/z3ecm-roadmap-september8593/ as well as on the www.z3lab.org website itself. 4 main themes for the sprint are currently emerging: - Repository: there is some unfinished conceptual and preliminary implementation work to be done regarding document repository design (including relations between documents, ORM-based storage, etc.) Ref: http://www.nuxeo.com/publications/slides/versioning-and-relation/downloadFile/file/versioning-ep-2005.pdf http://www.z3lab.org/sections/front-page/design-features/ecm-platform-concept/ - CPSSkins v3: Jean-Marc Orliaguet already has a very advanced implementation, that currently is Zope 3 only. We plan to bridge it with Zope 2 using Five to make it available on the current CMF-based platforms (at least CPS 3.4). Ref: http://www.z3lab.org/sections/blogs/jean-marc-orliaguet/archive_view?category=cpsskins http://svn.z3lab.org/trac/z3lab/browser/cpsskins/branches/jmo-perspectives/ - AJAX: we plan to generalize the current approach of CPSSkins v3, which is to use a JavaScript MVC library that exchanges JSON data structures with the server, to all the AJAX interactions. Ref: http://blogs.nuxeo.com/sections/blogs/tarek_ziade/archive_view?category=AJAX http://www.z3lab.org/sections/blogs/jean-marc-orliaguet/archive_view?category=AJAX - XForms: we intend to make XML Schemas and XForms the new model for documents and their representation in Z3ECM. This is specially important for interoperability with the Apogee project (http://apogee.nuxeo.org/). Ref: http://blogs.nuxeo.com/sections/blogs/eric_barroca/2005_09_05_ajax-does-not-compete/ At Nuxeo, we intend to make all these developments available either on top on CPS 3.4, or for the next iteration of CPS (CPS 3.6). But we'd also like to share these developments with the rest of the Zope 3 / CMF / Plone / etc. communities, if they are interested. Participation: The sprint is open to experimented Zope 3 / CMF / CPS / Plone developers. We already have booked 4-5 developers from Nuxeo, and Jean-Marc Orliaguet and Dario Lopez-Kärsten from Chalmers. Please join the discussion on the z3lab mailing list (http://lists.nuxeo.com/mailman/listinfo/z3lab) or contact me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) if you would like to participate. The sprint is free (but you have to pay for your own travel and accomodation). We (Nuxeo) will modestly provide free pizzas / sandwiches / diet Coke, etc. NB: the dates (3-7 April) have been chosen so that long distance travelers can go to the Swiss sprint afterwards (8-13 April). If this is inconvenient for a majority of sprinters, we may change to the week after the Swiss sprint (17-21 April) but this change has to be decided quickly. I will confirm the date in a later announcement (next week). So, once again, let's followup on the z3lab list. S. -- Stéfane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). Nuxeo Collaborative Portal Server: http://www.nuxeo.com/cps Gestion de contenu web / portail collaboratif / groupware / open source! ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-Users] Visionaire! (All your problems, solved)
Jeff Shell wrote: - Zope 3 CA: The Zope Component Architecture. Core services. Would include zope.publisher and most other current top level zope.* things. Usable as a library, as a publisher for other environments, perhaps as a simple standalone server. Easy to deploy against WSGI, Paste.deploy, whatever. - Zope 3 AS: The Zope 3 Application Server. A Zope 3 CA stack using the ZODB, ILocation, and most of the zope.app services but without any content objects. Perhaps only an application server configuration skin (process management) but no ZMI. Maybe have the current configuration installable as an option. - Zope Suite (or Zope Web or Zope DE): This is the full application server perhaps Jim is envisioning. A comprehensive web based user interface, based on features (and implementations) of both Zope 2 and Zope 3 application servers and offerings. Zope 3 CA, Zope 3 AS: good. Zope Suite: moderately bad. Zope 3 ECM (currently known as Z3ECM): good ;) Zed/The Component Architecture Formerlyknown as Zope/GoldEgg/whatever that's not called Zope something: YUCK! (Who's Zed? Zed's dead, baby!) S. -- Stéfane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). Nuxeo Collaborative Portal Server: http://www.nuxeo.com/cps Gestion de contenu web / portail collaboratif / groupware / open source! ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope-dev] Two visions?
Geoff Davis wrote: I think that the idea of giving Zed its own, distinct identity is great. I think it is stupid. We (Zope Corp + the Zope Community) have spent 8 years building the Zope brand, and you want to restart from scratch ? S. -- Stéfane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). Nuxeo Collaborative Portal Server: http://www.nuxeo.com/cps Gestion de contenu web / portail collaboratif / groupware / open source! ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Re: Two visions
Strange how (most of) the Plone people seem to be so quick in willing to sacrifice the Zope brand :( S. -- Stéfane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). Nuxeo Collaborative Portal Server: http://www.nuxeo.com/cps Gestion de contenu web / portail collaboratif / groupware / open source! ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Two visions
Max M wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: 2) In an alternate vision, Zope 2 evolves to Zope 5. Zope 2 is complicated! It has too many layers of everything. Layers are good, when they reliably hide complexity. The reason for Zope 3 is to make it simpler for developers. Yep. 14'30'' wikis and such. Therefore I believe that any succesfull strategy would require Zope 3 to be usable completely without all the Zope 2 layers. If Zope 3 becomes just another layer on top of Zope 2 - CMF - Plone it will not reduce complexity, as any developer would still need to learn the entire stack. You mean, on top - below ? (And Plone - CPS ;) ). Wherever practical, Zope 2 technologies should be rewritten to Zope 3 technologies to remove layers from the stack. To make discussion concrete, is there a list of (core, not CMF) Zope 2 technologies that are currently missing from Zope 3 ? S. -- Stéfane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). Nuxeo Collaborative Portal Server: http://www.nuxeo.com/cps Gestion de contenu web / portail collaboratif / groupware / open source! ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: The Zope Software Certification Program and Common Repository Proposal
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Andrew Milton wrote: +---[ Stephan Richter ]-- | Hello everyone, | | With the development of Zope 3, the Zope developers committed to a new | development process and higher software quality guidelines. With the adoption | of Zope 3 technologies in the wider Zope community, we should also start | using the process for third party package development. | | I have spent the last two weeks working on a proposal that defines a Zope | Software Certification Program (ZSCP) and a Common Repository that implements | this process. The proposal is attached to this mail. I welcome any comments | about it! So in order to even get your Open Source package LISTED, you have to sign over the rights of your code to Zope Corp (currently, Zope Foundation later), and then check it into the svn respository. Is this is correct? No. The common repository under the wings of ZC/ZF is just *a* repository that implements the ZSCP. There can be others, for example the Plone repository, the collective repository (perhaps), etc. I had earlier suggested to Stephan that we should keep the common repository separate from ZSCP and there out of this proposal. IMO there should be a separate proposal for the common repository. I guess he didn't agree. I think both the ZSCP and the common repository (in the context of the ZF) are a great idea. We should try to have as much stuff as possible in the common repository, but we shouldn't make the process dependent on it. I'm therefore still suggesting to divide up the proposal. +1 I specially like the ZSCP proposal. It is very similar to a project we are involved in, the EDOS project (www.edos-project.org). I strongly believe that it is a perfect match for the whole idea of having a component architecture in the first place. I also like the common repository idea, if it can provide the same level of QA functions we currently have at nuxeo (trac.nuxeo.org + buildbot.nuxeo.org), though I fear that Trac can't scale well to a project spanning several important subprojects (here scaling means providing both global views and by-project views of what's going on). However, I believe like you Philipp, that both initiatives should be decoupled. S. -- Stéfane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). Nuxeo Collaborative Portal Server: http://www.nuxeo.com/cps Gestion de contenu web / portail collaboratif / groupware / open source! ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: The Zope Software Certification Program and Common Repository Proposal
Stephan Richter wrote: (2) I fear that the ZSCP would be talked to death and stay dead. My experience in the Open Source world has shown that if something does not have practicality, it dies unless someone is getting paid. I am certainly not getting paid for this. By biggest interest here is to bring the sub-communities together and define communication means on the code level. I don't think it will stay dead, because it is really exciting :) S. -- Stéfane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). Nuxeo Collaborative Portal Server: http://www.nuxeo.com/cps Gestion de contenu web / portail collaboratif / groupware / open source! ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Z3ECM architecture and concept map
Stephan Richter wrote: On Tuesday 17 May 2005 08:43, Martijn Faassen wrote: Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: Maik Röder wrote: Before endorsing the project I just need to be sure that there is a healthy community. catch-22 :-) to have a healthy community you need a project that is not just vapourware and more than just people with good intentions who'll wait until others do something. You need commitment from all parts. It's indeed a chicken and egg situation; healthy communities give people enough trust to do a commitment and commitment from people and organizations tends to build healthy communities. I think the easiest way to earn trust is for the initiators to reach beyond their comfort level by looking at competing projects. I know that this is hard, since one is always convinced that his/her project is the best one. (I feel the same way. ;-) To be more concrete, I think a good first step would be to create a matrix of features in various Zope-based CMSs. This might also demonstrate the parts the community wants to work on first. I think we have already analysed the features of many ECMS, including proprietary solutions like Documentum and SPS (SharePoint). We've come up with the following diagram, which expresses our current thinking on the project: http://www.z3lab.org/sections/front-page/design-features/ecm-platform-concept/ Of course comments on the map are very welcome. It should be noted that we've tried to leverage on the lessons of the CMF, CPS, Silva and Plone architectures, but *also* to integrate open and non-Zope-specific standards like: - RDF for the documents relations - Some kind of XML schemas (probably relax-ng) - XForms for the UI - XPDL / WfMC for the workflow (Standards appear in orange in the diagram). We're also open to discussion on what other standards might be useful. S. -- Stéfane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). Nuxeo Collaborative Portal Server: http://www.nuxeo.com/cps Gestion de contenu web / portail collaboratif / groupware / open source! begin:vcard fn:Stefane Fermigier n:Fermigier;Stefane org:Nuxeo adr:;;14, rue Soleillet;Paris;;75020;France email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:CEO tel;work:+33 1 40 33 79 87 tel;fax:+33 1 43 58 14 15 tel;cell:+33 6 63 04 12 77 url:http://www.nuxeo.com/ version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
