Re: Re: [Zope3-dev] Grrr. zope.org wikis are evil.
On 10/7/06, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred Drake wrote: So whatever the ZF's plans for dealing with zope.org, I think there's no way to go wrong with the wikis except by keeping what we have now. While it's nice to use a Zope-based solution, I think we need to just get a solution that works. That could be a Zope 2 installation with a recent version of ZWiki, or something else (MoinMoin would make me happy as well, and has good reStructuredText support these days). reStructuredText support would be greaet. As well as EXPLICIT Wiki links. All those damn question marks on things that shouldn't be drives me absolutely batty. I believe that Wikipedia is incredibly useful because its links have to be explicit, and not accidently by way of FunNy SpellIng. Yeah, I'm grumbling. It's Friday night, and I've had it with the archaic StructuredText. If we end up using Trac, we'll be using that wiki. I have some wiki desires of my own that I'll probably never realize: - HTML WYSIWYG Wikis that don't use any form os structures text (small s) and just use an HTML editor. I think that structured text of any kind is an obstacle to Wiki use. Moin moin's markup rules drive me as batty as old Structured Text drives other people. ZWiki supports EPOZ editing and I'd love to see that used. Of course, this sort of experience avoids the need for preview or structured-text documentation. I think reStructuredText and Markdown are quite acceptable structured text syntaxes, especially for an audience that is largely technical. I think a system that facilitates easy copying and pasting from doctest documents, formatted doc strings, emails, etc, is ideal. We have a Knowledge Base application developed in-house that allows use of Textile, reStructuredText, Markdown, Plain Text, etc. The big benefit is that its easy to bring in data from sources ranging from Writeboards (Textile) to Zope 3 doctests and our own docstrings and other in-code documents with just a copy and paste. WYSIWYG editors for browsers are getting better, but they can still be a bit slow, taking me back to using geoWrite on the Commodore 64. Type'n'wait :). But yeah... I've found it much easier to share and upload technical documentation when the Wiki / Knowledge Base / Whatever supports the structured text syntax I've been writing in. Oh well. I absolutely agree that we need to replace the existing wikis. One other thing we'll need to consider is anti-spam capabilities. I'll agree with this agreement. -- Jeff Shell ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Grrr. zope.org wikis are evil.
Fred Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Montag, 9. Oktober 2006 at 5:20 Uhr +0100 wrote: Didn't someone write one like this for Z3? Possibly as part of a zope3.org thing? I now vaguely recall something being done, but that's about all I remember. Hi, yes, we started such a thing at the NeckarSprint last year. Unfortunately it never got ready to use . It uses Kupu and TinyMCE as WYSIWYG editors besides ReST: http://svn.zope.org/zope3org/trunk/src/zorg/wikification/ I fear that I will not be able to continue this work in the next few months, since I have to concentrate on my Bebop project. In this project we try to implement a lot of additional features like previews, versioning, diff views, integration with blog and news views, filesystem synchronization etc.I would love to see Bebop as a basis for a zope3.org site, but that's not realistic at the moment. For the zope3.org site it would probably the best to use an existing tool like Trac which is dedicated to the need of programmers. Regards, Uwe Dr. Uwe Oestermeier Institut für Wissensmedien Knowledge Media Research Center Konrad-Adenauer-Str. 40 D-72072 Tuebingen Germany [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel. +49 7071 979-208 Fax +49 7071 979-100 ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Grrr. zope.org wikis are evil.
On 10/7/06, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a Zope 3 port of zwiki. There's http://svn.zope.org/zwiki/. I just checked it out into a Zope 3 trunk checkout, added in a bit of configuration, and poked at it. My first impression is that it's more than a little raw. - HTML WYSIWYG Wikis that don't use any form os structures text (small s) and just use an HTML editor. I think that structured text of any kind is an obstacle to Wiki use. Moin moin's markup rules drive me as batty as old Structured Text drives other people. ZWiki supports EPOZ editing and I'd love to see that used. Of course, this sort of experience avoids the need for preview or structured-text documentation. Didn't someone write one like this for Z3? Possibly as part of a zope3.org thing? I now vaguely recall something being done, but that's about all I remember. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr.fdrake at gmail.com Every sin is the result of a collaboration. --Lucius Annaeus Seneca ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Grrr. zope.org wikis are evil.
Fred Drake wrote: I've mostly learned to stay away from the wikis on zope.org, but some days, I just forget. I use a lot of wikis. And I like them, really. They're good for many applications, and the Zope 3 development wiki, while disorganized and somewhat dated, isn't really any worse than others. Until you want to update it. The edit form provides no link to help on markup, and there really aren't many wikis I use that use StructuredText, so I forget the details of syntax. There's also no way to preview changes before committing. That's a big problem. I think the zope.org wikis are the only public wikis I use that don't support previews. So whatever the ZF's plans for dealing with zope.org, I think there's no way to go wrong with the wikis except by keeping what we have now. While it's nice to use a Zope-based solution, I think we need to just get a solution that works. That could be a Zope 2 installation with a recent version of ZWiki, or something else (MoinMoin would make me happy as well, and has good reStructuredText support these days). So has anyone released a nice Zope 3 wiki yet? I might be interested. :-) There's a Zope 3 port of zwiki. Yeah, I'm grumbling. It's Friday night, and I've had it with the archaic StructuredText. If we end up using Trac, we'll be using that wiki. I have some wiki desires of my own that I'll probably never realize: - HTML WYSIWYG Wikis that don't use any form os structures text (small s) and just use an HTML editor. I think that structured text of any kind is an obstacle to Wiki use. Moin moin's markup rules drive me as batty as old Structured Text drives other people. ZWiki supports EPOZ editing and I'd love to see that used. Of course, this sort of experience avoids the need for preview or structured-text documentation. - Off-line editing. zsync provides a huge opportunity here. I wish someone had time to work on it. It would be totally cool to be able to check out a wiki onto a local hard disk, work on it, and merge my changes back. Oh well. I absolutely agree that we need to replace the existing wikis. One other thing we'll need to consider is anti-spam capabilities. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
