Unix has two camps for approaching this problem /usr/local and /opt.
While they're almost never followed well on modern unix systems, the
idea is basically a global local overlay vs. a per-package overlay.
The /usr/local approach takes all packages not part of the base
system and creates
if the ethernet address is broken you can try to see if the nic
is still usable by setting promiscuous mode on...
I had the a problem years ago with andrey's sis900 driver
(the one in the distribution didn't work with my nic), when
I changed from a terminal to a 9pcf kernel it stopped working!
Anthony Sorace a...@9srv.net said:
Unix has two camps for approaching this problem /usr/local and /opt.
While they're almost never followed well on modern unix systems, the
idea is basically a global local overlay vs. a per-package overlay.
The /usr/local approach takes all
I think it also needs to be noticed that base system in lunixes implies
a huge a mount of stuff
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 2:59 AM, Anthony Sorace a...@9srv.net wrote:
Unix has two camps for approaching this problem /usr/local and /opt.
While they're almost never followed well on modern
other thing that deserves noticing is that there are 2 kind of needs
for packages, some people want to develop or like knowing what's
going on, so replica works for us as we get to see what files were
modified and when.
contrib(1) was written with this kind of user in mind, try to convince
erik
http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/source/browse/trunk/src/cmd/cat.s
Which returns 1062 lines of HTML+Javascript, completely unreadable
in Abaco.
The irony is stunning.
URL to the raw file; 50% less irony:
http://unix-jun72.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/src/cmd/cat.s
--lyndon
Tim Newsham |
Federico G. Benavento benave...@gmail.com said:
other thing that deserves noticing is that there are 2 kind of needs
for packages, some people want to develop or like knowing what's
going on, so replica works for us as we get to see what files were
modified and when.
contrib(1) was written
2010/3/25 Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org:
In fact, we have both printed on paper hanging from the wall of the corridor
near our office. Let's hope they learn.
This is a great idea. I think I'll copy it :-)
--
Hugo
On 26/03/2010 11:58, hugo rivera wrote:
maybe this doesn't happen on a native plan 9 installation
loop% echo 1.75e308+1.75e308 | hoc
hoc 6137: suicide: sys: fp: numeric overflow fppc=0x3004 status=0xb988
pc=0x3a75
% echo 1.75e308+1.75e308 | hoc
hoc 851: suicide: sys: trap: 19 (reserved) pc=0x3a75
trap 19 is SIMD floating point error. (sse or mmx.)
it's no longer reserved. it's quite curious that x87
floating point would generate such an exception in
plan 9 gives the following error (even with sse
garbage in, garbage out
lotte% echo 1.75e308+1.75e308 | hoc
hoc 730809: suicide: sys: fp: numeric overflow fppc=0x3004
status=0xb988 pc=0x3a75
lotte%
if you want to keep feeding garbage to your program disable the exceptions
see getfcr(2)
or http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/2/getfcr
The Plan 9 approach today is either install everything in / (/386/
bin, /sys/include, c) or in your personal home dir and bind as
needed. The later is irritating on multi-user systems, and the former
can make maintenance a lot harder. Replica's -c and -s help, but it
still
I see this as a little more complicated for two reasons. 1) administrating
distributed systems with group supplied applications that are widely used but
not part of the OS,
one of the key bits of plan 9 is that the fileserver has always been a
network fileserver. at coraid we have ~35 plan
ok, what about libraries, are you going to add a new place for included
files or have a script that sets the namespace for every library a
program you want to compile needs?
think about python for instances, it's needs zlib, bzip2, openssl and
it couldn't depend even on more stuff (like
great! now I can throw all the garbage I want to my program :-)
Thanks a lot.
2010/3/26 Federico G. Benavento benave...@gmail.com:
garbage in, garbage out
lotte% echo 1.75e308+1.75e308 | hoc
hoc 730809: suicide: sys: fp: numeric overflow fppc=0x3004
status=0xb988 pc=0x3a75
lotte%
if you
URL to the raw file; 50% less irony:
http://unix-jun72.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/src/cmd/cat.s
try as you might, the irony is unescapable (see the attached helpful
suggestion by google).
attachment: czech.png
You're making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
For 3rd party stuff, I put the source tree in /usr/lyndon/src/foo,
adjust the mkfiles to install in /usr/lyndon/bin/$objtype, and say
'mk install'. I keep a shadow man tree under /usr/lyndon/lib/man,
and then bind it all on top of the
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 4:58 AM, hugo rivera uai...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
float operations are causing me some headaches on plan 9 (9vx).
I have a program that crashes badly when I feed it with near-the-top
doubles ~1.1e308. This causes an overflow in a function that needs to
square this
bind -a $home/bin/rc /bin
[...]
(I use this for contrib packages as well, after getting burned a few
times with contrib stuff breaking builds in /sys/src. Rather than
use the package tool I copy the sources into $home/src and build as
above. The extra work is minimal.)
how is
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX)
lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote:
You're making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
For 3rd party stuff, I put the source tree in /usr/lyndon/src/foo,
adjust the mkfiles to install in /usr/lyndon/bin/$objtype, and say
'mk
2010/3/26 ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com:
yes, so I wonder, under what circumstances would you want this
non-useful output? Are you going to do further computation with the
number that you can not represent? I almost prefer the Plan 9 behavior
in this case ...
Well, I was expecting this
Well, I was expecting this question :-)
But I don't actually have a good answer. It just felt wrong to let the
program crash.
use notify(2) to do something with the signal.
- erik
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 9:55 AM, erik quanstrom
quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote:
bind -a $home/bin/rc /bin
[...]
(I use this for contrib packages as well, after getting burned a few
times with contrib stuff breaking builds in /sys/src. Rather than
use the package tool I copy the
I'm doing the same here, same reasons. Works fine. And, yes, I had the
same issues with contrib stuff breaking mk nuke all in /sys/src. I
don't put any contrib src in /sys any more -- unless it is via bind.
why does one routinely do mk nuke?
- erik
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 9:57 AM, hugo rivera uai...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/3/26 ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com:
yes, so I wonder, under what circumstances would you want this
non-useful output? Are you going to do further computation with the
number that you can not represent? I almost prefer
also this method is unwieldy with a many user
system.
It is? Why? If a user wants personal source and binaries, they set
it up. It doesn't impact me one way or the other.
For system-wide stuff I still keep the code in /usr/lyndon/src, but
adjust the mkfiles to install directly into the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fail-fast
says it better than I can.
ron
how is this less work than fixing or removing
broken packages? that problem needs to be
dealt with one way or the other.
Well, I've done both and this is less work. So I just measured the two
quantities. :-)
adding contrib packages to the BUGGERED list
seems even easier. but seems
even on a single user system, doesn't it
suck when you can find a few programs that
are in your own bin?
Sorry, I can't parse that this early in the morning.
sorry. forgot when you're running as the hostowner.
- erik
even on a single user system, doesn't it
suck when you can find a few programs that
are in your own bin?
Sorry, I can't parse that this early in the morning.
sorry. forgot when you're running as the hostowner.
I still don't get it. Why would finding things I put in my own bin
suck?
even on a single user system, doesn't it
suck when you can find a few programs that
are in your own bin?
Sorry, I can't parse that this early in the morning.
sorry. forgot when you're running as the hostowner.
I still don't get it. Why would finding things I put in my own
Uf, I didn't have any idea of the risks implied.
Thanks for correcting me ;-)
2010/3/26 ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fail-fast
says it better than I can.
ron
--
Hugo
you would not find them. the hostowner, unless that's you,
would be unwise to bind your bin into /bin.
They're *personal* binaries. The hostowner doesn't need them.
one of the reasons I wrote contrib was that I got tired of
explaining people how the whole process of how to install
a program.
; 9ffs sources
; fcp /n/sources/contrib/dude/thing.tgz /tmp
; cd /tmp
; gunzip thing.tgz | tar x
; cd thing
; mk install
simple right? but when you've spent tons of 15
you would not find them. the hostowner, unless that's you,
would be unwise to bind your bin into /bin.
They're *personal* binaries. The hostowner doesn't need them.
multiply by several levels of bindings and it will become
a large mental burden to remember what's available where.
- erik
in the end everything is easy for those who know
how to do it.
And god forbid people actually learn anything.
But I don't actually have a good answer. It just felt wrong to let the
program crash.
Wrong answer for many cases. This is like saying you're happy with
undetected memory corruption which might change data or break
pointers. Would you accept that too?
You're being a little extreme. In this
multiply by several levels of bindings and it will become
a large mental burden to remember what's available where.
Practice says otherwise. The only change to the binds since I set
it up (years ago) was adding $home/bin/rcaux-/bin/aux last fall.
On Fri Mar 26 14:10:18 EDT 2010, lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote:
multiply by several levels of bindings and it will become
a large mental burden to remember what's available where.
Practice says otherwise. The only change to the binds since I set
it up (years ago) was adding
why do you presume i haven't tried this?
Because you claim it doesn't work. I have evidence it does work.
Arm wrestle at 5? :-)
On 26 Mar 2010, at 05:02, EBo wrote:
I'm also talking about system wide apps on a
multiuser system. So, for example, your /$objtype/bin would look
something
like /sys_apps/$objtype/bin, and /sys_aps would contain all system
wide,
non-OS distributed, applications.
This is just how I
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Tim Newsham news...@lava.net wrote:
Yah, you could have known that with a lot less computation if you
stopped earlier, but you're not exactly left computing with garbage.
Good point.
ron
On 26 Mar 2010, at 17:34, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX) wrote:
in the end everything is easy for those who know
how to do it.
And god forbid people actually learn anything.
Oh, yeah, lets all learn about namespaces and the counterintuitive
things they do and don't do, and compiling
On 26 Mar 2010, at 18:44, erik quanstrom wrote:
On Fri Mar 26 14:10:18 EDT 2010, lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote:
multiply by several levels of bindings and it will become
a large mental burden to remember what's available where.
Practice says otherwise. The only change to the binds since I set
it
Same old same old it works for me so you don't need more. Maybe
we'll become a part of the gnu project soon.
please stop trolling.
- erik
Oh, yeah, lets all learn about namespaces and the counterintuitive
things they do and don't do, and compiling and everything to do when
it goes wrong, and a billion other things JUST to save devs having to
work out a good solution!
mmm. i don't know of any counterintuative things
that
Well, it won't probably answer the questions of any one, but for the
package I'm working on, these are true:
1) Compilation is a separate step (One can cross compile on a MATRIX for
a distinct TARGET).
2) Sources are read-only and the compilation is done elsewhere.
3) Space requirements are low
On 26 Mar 2010, at 21:30, erik quanstrom wrote:
Same old same old it works for me so you don't need more. Maybe
we'll become a part of the gnu project soon.
please stop trolling.
I guess I overreacted, sorry.
--
Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it.
-- Alan Perlis
On 26 Mar 2010, at 21:32, erik quanstrom wrote:
Oh, yeah, lets all learn about namespaces and the counterintuitive
things they do and don't do, and compiling and everything to do when
it goes wrong, and a billion other things JUST to save devs having to
work out a good solution!
mmm. i
4) Once compilation is done, you create a package that is simply a
tarball with the stuff that needs to be installed, a script and a _map_
that tells : this thing here shall be put there, with owner: owner:group
and permissions: permissions.
Should this be a proto? Just in case you've
You could say I'm trading one complexity
for another: arguing for growing system directories instead.
It's hard and not always possible to replace complexity with
simplicity. Sometimes, even in Plan 9, the choice is to simplify by
convention rather than refinement, there are quite a few
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