On Sun Dec 15 21:05:43 EST 2013, mve...@gmail.com wrote:
> Use 8c. Amd64 isn't supported yet.
>
> > On Dec 15, 2013, at 20:31, Blake McBride wrote:
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > I've got 9front running but I am having trouble compiling a hello.c program.
> >
> > term% 6c hello.c
> > term% 6l hell
On 24/10/2013, at 5:57 PM, Keith wrote:
> Who here remembers/knows of the vision for the apple newton? The iPad
> realized it when the technology was able and the time was right. Who is to
> say the same couldn't be said for 9?
I suspect that Plan9ers will be as disappointed as Newtonians at th
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 5:27 PM, erik quanstrom
wrote:
> i believe this is a personal record for any system at any time:
>
> plano: version
> 63-bit plano as of Thu Jan 6 13:20:07 EDT 2011
> last boot Fri Jan 21 14:57:19 EDT 2011
Pish. Plano is barely used!
Good point. I can't.
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 8:58 PM, andrey mirtchovski
wrote:
> welcome to the club. now do the same thing with linux. and try to
> regale your experience in less than 4 blogposts :)
>
>
welcome to the club. now do the same thing with linux. and try to
regale your experience in less than 4 blogposts :)
Thanks. That fixed the problem. For the faint at heart, here is what I
did:
cd /sys/src/9/pc
acme main.c
At the bottom of the file there is a function named idlehands(void).
Change that function to do nothing but call halt().
Then, from that same directory, build the kernel with:
Use 8c. Amd64 isn't supported yet.
> On Dec 15, 2013, at 20:31, Blake McBride wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I've got 9front running but I am having trouble compiling a hello.c program.
>
> term% 6c hello.c
> term% 6l hello.6
> ??none??: cannot open file: /amd64/lib/libc.a
>
> I already looked in
> I am running 9plan on VMware Fusion successfully, however, the CPU is
> pegged. I've seen this before with DOS. Basically the OS has its own idle
> loop so VMware sees it as always using CPU. There is a patch to fix this
> issue with a DOS guest. Any ideas with 9front?
change idlehands in /s
Greetings,
I am running 9plan on VMware Fusion successfully, however, the CPU is
pegged. I've seen this before with DOS. Basically the OS has its own idle
loop so VMware sees it as always using CPU. There is a patch to fix this
issue with a DOS guest. Any ideas with 9front?
Thanks.
Blake McB
> Thanks! It went through a bunch of compiles and library adds
> successfullybut ended in:
>
> ...
> a - utfutf.6
> a - u16.6
> a - u32.6
> a - u64.6
> amd64
> Can't cd amd64: 'amd64' directory not found
> mk: for(i in 9sys ... : exit status=rc 1544: rc 2737: can't cd
> mk: date for (i ... : exi
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 7:33 PM, erik quanstrom wrote:
> On Sun Dec 15 20:31:47 EST 2013, bl...@mcbride.name wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > I've got 9front running but I am having trouble compiling a hello.c
> program.
> >
> > term% 6c hello.c
> > term% 6l hello.6
> > ??none??: cannot open file:
On Sun Dec 15 20:31:47 EST 2013, bl...@mcbride.name wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I've got 9front running but I am having trouble compiling a hello.c program.
>
> term% 6c hello.c
> term% 6l hello.6
> ??none??: cannot open file: /amd64/lib/libc.a
>
> I already looked in google, the email list, and FA
Greetings,
I've got 9front running but I am having trouble compiling a hello.c program.
term% 6c hello.c
term% 6l hello.6
??none??: cannot open file: /amd64/lib/libc.a
I already looked in google, the email list, and FAQ's that I could find.
Your help is appreciated.
Blake McBride
Will do.
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 6:37 PM, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > I briefly looked at 9front and 9atom. I thought I would query this group
> > about the two. Is one better maintained than the other? Does one have
> > better hardware support than the other?
>
> i'd appreciate some feedback o
> I briefly looked at 9front and 9atom. I thought I would query this group
> about the two. Is one better maintained than the other? Does one have
> better hardware support than the other?
i'd appreciate some feedback on the usb install process if you get a chance.
http://ftp.9atom.org/other/us
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Bence Fábián wrote:
>
> This whole discussion has devolved into all the exact same discussions
> when someone comes to save us from ourselves.
> If you are too lazy to look into the archives at least read this:
> http://jfloren.net/b/2012/4/27/0
>
>
Yes, that sure
i believe this is a personal record for any system at any time:
plano: version
63-bit plano as of Thu Jan 6 13:20:07 EDT 2011
last boot Fri Jan 21 14:57:19 EDT 2011
- erik
> plan 9 is sane enough that one person can maintain it for their own use.
> given the state of other systems that probably doesn't appear possible.
>
> that's probably the most important idea that i've taken from plan 9.
+1.
- erik
Thank you, Tristan.
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Tristan <9p...@imu.li> wrote:
> > Quoting Kurt...
> > > Is one better maintained than the other?
> > Yes.
> 9atom.
>
> > > Does one have better hardware support than the other?
> > Yes.
> 9front.
>
> > khm
> tristan
>
> --
> All original matte
> Suffice it to say that without a critical mass of users, Bell Labs
> and/or Alcatel-Lucent will drop it, it will experience insufficient
> support from the user base at large, and it will suffer bit-rot until
> it won't boot anywhere anymore.
plan 9 is sane enough that one person can maintain it
> Quoting Kurt...
> > Is one better maintained than the other?
> Yes.
9atom.
> > Does one have better hardware support than the other?
> Yes.
9front.
> khm
tristan
--
All original matter is hereby placed immediately under the public domain.
Quoting Blake McBride :
Is one better maintained than the other?
Yes.
Does one have better hardware support than the other?
Yes.
khm
I now see there are, at least, a couple of forks of Plan-9 with the goal of
keeping off bit rot and making bug fixes and enhancements. Since I've had
a lot of trouble attempting to boot Plan-9 on a laptop, VMWare Fusion, and
a Linux VM Server, I thought I'd try the forks. (Actually, Plan-9
instal
On 12/15/2013 4:17 PM, Blake McBride wrote:
This whole discussion has devolved into a political left vs. right like
debate. Suffice it to say that without a critical mass of users, Bell
Labs and/or Alcatel-Lucent will drop it, it will experience insufficient
support from the user base at large,
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Lee Fallat wrote:
> ...Tell that to the people who are maintaining 9front and 9atom.
>
>
I wasn't aware of those two. Thanks!
Quoting Blake McBride :
This whole discussion has devolved into a political left vs. right like
debate. Suffice it to say that without a critical mass of users, Bell Labs
and/or Alcatel-Lucent will drop it, it will experience insufficient support
from the user base at large, and it will suffer
...Tell that to the people who are maintaining 9front and 9atom.
Oh wait, you just did.
My personal opinion: Plan 9 in its forked form will continue to be
used and worked for a long time. Hell, there are people still using
Amigas for "serious" computing! I too many times thinking about
bringing P
Schooling Erik on this list is priceless. Such entertainment.
Well if it dies it dies. It wasn't a bad run. Plan 9 has been around longer
than Linux. But now that we have failed to heed your warning. Woe us.
This whole discussion has devolved into all the exact same discussions when
someone comes
This whole discussion has devolved into a political left vs. right like
debate. Suffice it to say that without a critical mass of users, Bell Labs
and/or Alcatel-Lucent will drop it, it will experience insufficient support
from the user base at large, and it will suffer bit-rot until it won't boot
Ok. Make wonders, then demo them next year on iwp9.
2013/12/15 Oleg
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 09:43:27PM +0100, Bence F??bi??n wrote:
> > > Linux already has many good things, like a namespaces,
> >
> > Have you tried using *CLONE_NEWNS* in Linux? I did. It's a joke.
>
> I didn't say that this
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 09:43:27PM +0100, Bence F??bi??n wrote:
> > Linux already has many good things, like a namespaces,
>
> Have you tried using *CLONE_NEWNS* in Linux? I did. It's a joke.
I didn't say that this things are implemented well :-). I just say that
linux has good things in directio
Quoting Blake McBride :
All of this talk sound like someone saying: imagine the hurdles of sending
a man to the moon. how can man fly when his weight to strength ratio
is so poor
The only limit is ones imagination and creativity.
Blake
No. Lack of training, an inability to learn
> Linux already has many good things, like a namespaces,
Have you tried using *CLONE_NEWNS* in Linux? I did. It's a joke.
You need to have *CAP_SYS_ADMIN.* And you need to hack back Constants what
has since have been missing from headers. You need to allocate your stack.
Backwards! It's not even f
> I, respectfully, disagree. The end purpose of any OS, platform, or program
> is to perform some sort of function. That end function is called an app.
the distinction between the os an application is illusionary. redefineing terms
a little bit doesn't clear anything up.
what an os allows one
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 01:13:38PM -0600, Blake McBride wrote:
> All of this talk sound like someone saying: imagine the hurdles of sending
> a man to the moon. how can man fly when his weight to strength ratio
> is so poor
No. This sounds like: why do much of useless work?
To not lose
> "major piece among many" can be more precisely stated as "many pieces among
> many in order for the platform to achieve a critical mass of users".
the metaphor "critical mass" is really tiresome one. it does not apply
to operating systems. if one person finds the os useful, then that's enough.
There's also a Tab command in acme which sets it for the actual window.
Like 'Tab 8'. Please read the documentation and the source before asking
here. (exectab[] has the commands in exec.c)
2013/12/15 Friedrich Psiorz
> The acme manpage tells me:
> Set the $tabstop environment variable.
>
> Am
"major piece among many" can be more precisely stated as "many pieces among
many in order for the platform to achieve a critical mass of users".
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Steve Simon wrote:
> But this is just one major piece among many.
>
> Perhaps for you but not for me, the only thing
with the plumber running, issuing "B /anyfile" will open the file in
acme, even if acme isn't running. this is very useful when you start
scripting little tools.
i think this covers everything about acme :)
But this is just one major piece among many.
Perhaps for you but not for me, the only thing is really missi s a browser.
Very occasuinally I need to edit word documents but this is rare
enough that I don't really care.
-Steve
The acme manpage tells me:
Set the $tabstop environment variable.
Am 15.12.2013 20:23, schrieb Blake McBride:
> Greetings,
>
> I noticed tab size on sam is 8 characters. This is somewhat standard.
> Acme uses 4 (which is perhaps more reasonable in many circumstances).
> How can one control the
set the tabstop environment var in your $home/lib/profile e.g.
tabstop=8
-Steve
Linux, android, Windows, and iOS all reached a critical mass in terms of
programmer and end-user apps in order to survive. Plan-9 did not. A
quality web browser on Plan-9 is critical to its usefullness by many. But
this is just one major piece among many.
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Steve
Greetings,
I noticed tab size on sam is 8 characters. This is somewhat standard.
Acme uses 4 (which is perhaps more reasonable in many circumstances). How
can one control the tab size on acme?
Thanks.
Blake McBride
I have no desire to develope c++ code on plan9 but if there was a simple way to
cross compile c++ applications for plan9 that would be great - firefox being
the obvious one.
This has been done to death, and the closest we ever came to it (IMHO) was
cinap's linuxemu - this allowed you to run the li
All of this talk sound like someone saying: imagine the hurdles of sending
a man to the moon. how can man fly when his weight to strength ratio
is so poor
The only limit is ones imagination and creativity.
Blake
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Oleg wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 a
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 11:05:53AM -0600, Blake McBride wrote:
> In spite of some really great ideas, I think we'd all agree that Plan-9 has
> no real future. On the other hand, I believe that some of the best ideas
> Plan-9 brings us can and should be a part of the future. I think the best,
> mo
Couldn't agree more.
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 2:57 AM, Keith wrote:
> Who here remembers/knows of the vision for the apple newton? The iPad
> realized it when the technology was able and the time was right. Who is to
> say the same couldn't be said for 9?
Okay. Got it.
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bence Fábián wrote:
> Bottomline is this: People would never use software like that. The ones
> who do are already familiar with Plan 9 and weighted pros and cons years
> ago. 99,9% of the potential users are already on this mailing list and
> wa
Who here remembers/knows of the vision for the apple newton? The iPad realized
it when the technology was able and the time was right. Who is to say the same
couldn't be said for 9?
Bottomline is this: People would never use software like that. The ones who
do are already familiar with Plan 9 and weighted pros and cons years ago.
99,9% of the potential users are already on this mailing list and watched
this exact same exchange a dozen times.
2013/12/15 Blake McBride
> I, r
Thanks! That is very helpful.
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Friedrich Psiorz wrote:
> To run the plumber, type
> plumber &
>
> then you can copy the rules file to $HOME/lib/plumbing and modify it as
> you wish. The next time you start the plumber (or when you write the
> modified file back
I, respectfully, disagree. The end purpose of any OS, platform, or program
is to perform some sort of function. That end function is called an app.
An app can be targeted at a programmer or a dumb user. The underlying
environment (including tools) determines the available facilities a
programmer
To run the plumber, type
plumber &
then you can copy the rules file to $HOME/lib/plumbing and modify it as
you wish. The next time you start the plumber (or when you write the
modified file back via 9p), it will load that config file and hopefully
behave as you planned.
Okay, now what's the plumb
If bringing Plan 9 to the masses will bring forth stuff like C++ and Java,
I will fight against it till my dying breath.
Jokes aside. People don't want to use computers. People want to use apps.
Noone will like Plan 9. Where you have to read manuals. They hate that. If
you like Plan 9, and there's
As I am sure you would agree, a lot of real, interesting, important, and
valuable work gets done on POSIX systems. I'm sure we'd all agree that
Plan-9 adds important ideas to those already present in POSIX. While some
of the implementation specifics of Plan-9 may be "hard to bold" onto a
POSIX sy
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 5:55 AM, trebol wrote:
> . The lack of a
> web browser capable of deal with today's madness and the portability
> limitation of ape (at least for a ignorant like me) forcesme to deal
> with other OS I have to install and maintaining, so the simplicity and
> cleanness
> On a semi-different note, I understand the great advancement Plan-9
> brings to the table with respect to making all operations part of
> the file system. On the flip side, I do not understand the benefit
> p9p brings to the table with bind and friends. It is too much of
> a tack-on IMO. I dee
I would greatly appreciate it if you could give me the specifics on this.
Thanks!
Blake
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Friedrich Psiorz wrote:
> To use the plumber, you have to start it first. Then you can configure
> all the Button-3 behavior you want. No need to change the hard coded
>
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 10:00 AM, erik quanstrom wrote:
> On Sun Dec 15 10:23:13 EST 2013, bl...@mcbride.name wrote:
>
> > I checked. The following shell script does the trick:
> >
> >
> > #
> > mkdir /tmp/acme-$$
> > NAMESPACE=/tmp/acme-$$ acme "$@"
>
> this is swimming up stream. acme's model
I don't say it is very common, but I do run multiple acmes under
Plan 9 sometimes. With vastly different name spaces.
2013/12/15 erik quanstrom
> On Sun Dec 15 10:23:13 EST 2013, bl...@mcbride.name wrote:
>
> > I checked. The following shell script does the trick:
> >
> >
> > #
> > mkdir /tmp/
> Sometimes, like when you issue a command and the result goes to the Errors
> window, I would like to be able to execute text in the Errors window that
> would affect the window the Error window represents. This would be very
> powerful.
If the original window already has the Edit command in the
To use the plumber, you have to start it first. Then you can configure
all the Button-3 behavior you want. No need to change the hard coded
backup behavior.
Am 15.12.2013 17:19, schrieb Blake McBride:
> Blake-Mac-17:tmp blake$ 9p read plumb/rules
> 9p: mount: dial unix!/tmp/ns.blake._tmp_launch-nv
Blake-Mac-17:tmp blake$ 9p read plumb/rules
9p: mount: dial unix!/tmp/ns.blake._tmp_launch-nvfpC3_org.x:0/plumb:
connect /tmp/ns.blake._tmp_launch-nvfpC3_org.x:0/plumb: No such file
I don't have to do this when I search for text with spaces, or to execute a
command with spaces. Not being able to
> window, I would like to be able to execute text in the Errors window that
> would affect the window the Error window represents. This would be very
> powerful. I could highlight text in a window, execute a command on it, and
> that command would provide me with a series of commands I can run on
On Sun Dec 15 10:23:13 EST 2013, bl...@mcbride.name wrote:
> I checked. The following shell script does the trick:
>
>
> #
> mkdir /tmp/acme-$$
> NAMESPACE=/tmp/acme-$$ acme "$@"
this is swimming up stream. acme's model is to run 1 copy of acme,
and edit all files in it. many things, such as
I think the reason is that filenames with spaces are not very common in
Plan 9.
If you're running plumber, you can probably adjust the regular
exressions for file matching in your $HOME/lib/plumbing file.
If you don't have that file yet:
9p read plumb/rules >$HOME/lib/plumbing
~Fritz
Am 15.12.20
Discovering button-3-drag, is there a reason button-3-drag could not be
made to load a file or directory with spaces in it? In other words, would
this conflict with some other intended operation?
Thanks.
Blake
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Blake McBride wrote:
> When you button-2-click o
I checked. The following shell script does the trick:
#
mkdir /tmp/acme-$$
NAMESPACE=/tmp/acme-$$ acme "$@"
On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:31 AM, User & wrote:
> you may change $NAMESPACE, cf. intro(4)
>
> % mkdir /tmp/foo; NAMESPACE=/tmp/foo acme
>
>
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 6:01 AM, Rubén Berenguel wrote:
>
> By the way, do you know about 1-2 chords, don't you? For some of these
> tasks it may be useful.
>
>
I have only a vague notion of chords at this point. I have two button mouse.
I simulate the button-2 with alt-left-click. Because
you may change $NAMESPACE, cf. intro(4)
% mkdir /tmp/foo; NAMESPACE=/tmp/foo acme
Sometimes (for long pieces of text like blog posts) I use wwb to check
style and readability. Correcting something usually is
1. Right-click the line number in +errors
2. Correct
3. Go back to 1
For spell checking, tweaking aspell's output is best. Also, keep in mind
that all the steps can be (af
When recently I discovered Plan9, the first things I missed were a
non-only-English spell checker, support for other languages in troff
(mostly hyphenation), and other dictionaries for dict. I've ported
"international ispell" to ape and write aispell, a modified version of
aspell script that work
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