Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1) Make rules ordinal by category. Rules in different categories are > incomparable precedence-wise. Additionally, rules cannot reference > terms, concepts, or entities defined in other categories without an > explicit "impo

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 2101 assigned to ais523

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Kerim Aydin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, e ruled that "knowingly" giving implicit consent, with obvious intent > that it be consent, was close enough to explicit that it could be > considered explicit. E ruled, if we are to take eir arguments literally, that a

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Geoffrey Spear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:34 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I still have a strong feeling that Agora needs some sort of safety valve >> to escape from situations where the normal proposal system doesn't work, >>

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Ben Caplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Proto-proto: Make power ordinal rather than cardinal, and organize the > ruleset by power. Occasionally we would have rules like "rules below > this one can be changed with AI >= 2". Early (powerful) rules would > include "def

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Humble request

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 7:32 PM, ihope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, I can make random people recordkeepors, and no, you don't > actually have to keep track of the Five-Ton Anvil, since you're not an > office. I can make random offices recordkeepors, and they would have > to keep track of those

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 2101 assigned to ais523

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Kerim Aydin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, comex wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:42 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Implicitly agreeing to a contract doesn't actually work, but one example >>> would be me posting to a-b (or better,

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Saturday 20 September 2008 09:35:06 pm ihope wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Ben Caplan wrote: > > Proto-proto: Make power ordinal rather than cardinal, and > > organize the ruleset by power. Occasionally we would have rules > > like "rules below this one can be changed with AI >= 2".

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Saturday 20 September 2008 08:05:42 pm comex wrote: > Really, the Agoran power system is completely broken. Any > high-power Rule that uses a term defined in a low-power Rule is > potentially a conduit for a "power escalation" by a scamster, and > often is. On Thursday 09 January 2003 05:49:54

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Ben Caplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Proto-proto: Make power ordinal rather than cardinal, and organize the > ruleset by power. Occasionally we would have rules like "rules below > this one can be changed with AI >= 2". Early (powerful) rules would > include "def

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Saturday 20 September 2008 08:54:26 pm Kerim Aydin wrote: > > http://www.nomic.net/~nomicwiki/index.php/AgoraTheses doesn't > > list any thesis of yours. Where can it be found? > > Hrm, I don't know. It was about three computers ago on my end, the > only other place it ended up was on the mail

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Ben Caplan wrote: > On Saturday 20 September 2008 08:51:14 pm Kerim Aydin wrote: >> making that broader adjustment was, for some reasons I don't quite >> recall, the subject of some interesting discussion which never came >> around to an agreed-upon fix. >> >> -Goethe. > > Pro

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 2101 assigned to ais523

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Ben Caplan wrote: > On Saturday 20 September 2008 08:13:45 pm Kerim Aydin wrote: >> On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, comex wrote: >>> Is this the line to be drawn for such a strong term as >>> "explicit"? >> >> Already very well and directly (almost identically) covered in CFJ >> 1290. -G

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Humble request

On Saturday 20 September 2008 20:32:06 ihope wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:16 PM, Josiah Worcester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I humbly request for a list of those obligations of mine that are public. > > I believe your only obligations are to act in accordance with the > contracts you're a

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Saturday 20 September 2008 08:51:14 pm Kerim Aydin wrote: > making that broader adjustment was, for some reasons I don't quite > recall, the subject of some interesting discussion which never came > around to an agreed-upon fix. > > -Goethe. Proto-proto: Make power ordinal rather than cardinal,

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 2101 assigned to ais523

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:13 PM, Kerim Aydin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Already very well and directly (almost identically) covered in CFJ 1290. > -Goethe Except that in this case, Judge solublefish repeatedly calls a message Goethe sent for the sole purpose of (possibly) joining the Agora the B

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, comex wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Kerim Aydin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Nice example, since the creation of the fountain was due to such a scam. >> It's called a "ladder scam". This was the subject of my thesis, and I >> believe Andre's as well. IIRC I thin

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 2101 assigned to ais523

On Saturday 20 September 2008 08:13:45 pm Kerim Aydin wrote: > On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, comex wrote: > > Is this the line to be drawn for such a strong term as > > "explicit"? > > Already very well and directly (almost identically) covered in CFJ > 1290. -Goethe Reading the arguments on 1290, it seems

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Ben Caplan wrote: > On Saturday 20 September 2008 08:19:44 pm Kerim Aydin wrote: >> Nice example, since the creation of the fountain was due to such a >> scam. It's called a "ladder scam". This was the subject of my >> thesis, and I believe Andre's as well. IIRC I think I re

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Kerim Aydin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nice example, since the creation of the fountain was due to such a scam. > It's called a "ladder scam". This was the subject of my thesis, and I > believe Andre's as well. IIRC I think I recommended at the time > a tweak t

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Saturday 20 September 2008 08:19:44 pm Kerim Aydin wrote: > Nice example, since the creation of the fountain was due to such a > scam. It's called a "ladder scam". This was the subject of my > thesis, and I believe Andre's as well. IIRC I think I recommended > at the time a tweak to R754 but I

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Geoffrey Spear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:34 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I still have a strong feeling that Agora needs some sort of safety valve >> to escape from situations where the normal proposal system doesn't work, >>

DIS: Re: BUS: Humble request

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:16 PM, Josiah Worcester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I humbly request for a list of those obligations of mine that are public. I believe your only obligations are to act in accordance with the contracts you're a party to (see one of ais523's Notary reports); to judge, if

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:34 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I still have a strong feeling that Agora needs some sort of safety valve > to escape from situations where the normal proposal system doesn't work, > maybe after seeing it happen to B Nomic at least twice in the last year. B does

Re: DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, comex wrote: > Really, the Agoran power system is completely broken. Any high-power > Rule that uses a term defined in a low-power Rule is potentially a > conduit for a "power escalation" by a scamster, and often is. Not > only do high-power Rules do often use such definitio

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 2101 assigned to ais523

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, comex wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:42 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Implicitly agreeing to a contract doesn't actually work, but one example >> would be me posting to a-b (or better, putting into the ruleset): >> {{{ >> This is a contract. Any player of Agora

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 2101 assigned to ais523

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:42 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Implicitly agreeing to a contract doesn't actually work, but one example > would be me posting to a-b (or better, putting into the ruleset): > {{{ > This is a contract. Any player of Agora who does not opt out of this > contract i

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

On Sun, 21 Sep 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: > 2008/9/21 Jeff Weston (Sir Toby) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Do I have to do anything now to take care of crimes I committed back then? > > To the best of my knowledge, you are a free man. Blot crimes have ceased to exist, so everyone who left the game with

DIS: Re: ?spam? BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:04 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Any player can make arbitrary changes to the rules with 12 Support. Not much of an escape clause when it depends on a Power=1 rule to define "player". Swap "player" for "person" and you're still depending on multiple Power=2 rul

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Ian Kelly wrote: >> Nobody has 12 friends. Unless, I guess, they're non-Agoran friends who >> all register at once. Maybe we could limit registrations to >> one-per-week-or-without-three-objections. > > That was the sort of situation I met, and I don't think this would be > wo

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJs 2154-55

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Pavitra wrote: Quite possibly that would violate R101. >>> If it does then so does the 5 CFJ thing >> That's why the wording of R101 clause is as it is; if you're told "you >> can re-initiate on the same subject next week" then you still have >> a reasonable expectation

DIS: Proto-contract: Locations

I (do not, yet) agree to the following, become a cartographer, and become Cartographer-General : { 1. This is a public contract and a pledge. The name of this contract is The Explorers' Club. 2. Any person can join or leave this contract by announcement. 3. Rank is a party switch with values P

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

> >> No, it has the problem that anybody with 12 friends can do > >> anything they want. > > > > Isn't this true of the proposal system in general, for > > sufficiently large values of 12? > > The proposal system's 12 (actually higher than 12, of course) gets > bigger whenever 26 gets bigger. A wit

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Ben Caplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Saturday 20 September 2008 05:53:58 pm Ian Kelly wrote: >> No, it has the problem that anybody with 12 friends can do anything >> they want. > > Isn't this true of the proposal system in general, for sufficiently > large va

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2008/9/21 Jeff Weston (Sir Toby) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Do I have to do anything now to take care of crimes I committed back then? To the best of my knowledge, you are a free man.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

Ian Kelly wrote: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Pavitra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Wednesday 10 September 2008 03:13:06 am Jeff Weston (Sir Toby) >> wrote: >>> I register myself for Agora using the nickname "Sir Toby". >>> >>> For the benefit of the Registrar, I note that I was previously

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Saturday 20 September 2008 05:53:58 pm Ian Kelly wrote: > No, it has the problem that anybody with 12 friends can do anything > they want. Isn't this true of the proposal system in general, for sufficiently large values of 12?

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 5:03 PM, ihope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:53 PM, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 4:34 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> I still have a strong feeling that Agora needs some sort of safety valve >>> to escape

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:53 PM, Ian Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 4:34 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I still have a strong feeling that Agora needs some sort of safety valve >> to escape from situations where the normal proposal system doesn't work, >> maybe

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJs 2154-55

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Kerim Aydin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: >> 2008/9/20 ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> Quite possibly that would violate R101. >>> -- >>> ais523 >>> >> If it does then so does the 5 CFJ thing > > That's why the wording of R1

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 4:34 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I still have a strong feeling that Agora needs some sort of safety valve > to escape from situations where the normal proposal system doesn't work, > maybe after seeing it happen to B Nomic at least twice in the last year. > I tho

DIS: Live-action in Agora

I remember that things seemed like they were occuring live when Olipro joined and I was trying for the Win by Extortion. What other events in Agoran history have had these sort of live-action events?

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 2101 assigned to ais523

On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 18:35 -0400, comex wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 4:52 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If there is a rule in the ruleset that > > implies that people can be potentially bound by an equation if they > > agree to a contract, it stands to reason that a player should b

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 16:31 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 3:58 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I submit the following proposal (AI=3, II=1): > > > > Add a rule with the following text, and set its power to 3: > > {{{ > > Any player can make arbitrary changes to th

DIS: Re: BUS: Emergency exit, part 2

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 3:58 PM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I submit the following proposal (AI=3, II=1): > > Add a rule with the following text, and set its power to 3: > {{{ > Any player can make arbitrary changes to the rules with 12 Support. > }}} > Very strongly AGAINST. -

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJs 2154-55

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Elliott Hird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2008/9/20 ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Quite possibly that would violate R101. >> -- >> ais523 >> > > If it does then so does the 5 CFJ thing No more so than did the 5-day waiting period of the Brady Bill violate the cons

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJs 2154-55

On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 16:27 -0500, Pavitra wrote: > >>> Quite possibly that would violate R101. > >> If it does then so does the 5 CFJ thing > > That's why the wording of R101 clause is as it is; if you're told "you > > can re-initiate on the same subject next week" then you still have > > a reason

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJs 2154-55

>>> Quite possibly that would violate R101. >> If it does then so does the 5 CFJ thing > That's why the wording of R101 clause is as it is; if you're told "you > can re-initiate on the same subject next week" then you still have > a reasonable expectation of resolution with minor delay (but still i

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJs 2154-55

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Elliott Hird wrote: > 2008/9/20 ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Quite possibly that would violate R101. >> -- >> ais523 >> > If it does then so does the 5 CFJ thing That's why the wording of R101 clause is as it is; if you're told "you can re-initiate on the same subject next

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJs 2154-55

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Elliott Hird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2008/9/20 ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Quite possibly that would violate R101. >> -- >> ais523 >> > > If it does then so does the 5 CFJ thing And, as I was persuaded of when I asked about excess CFJs, if that should ever

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJs 2154-55

2008/9/20 ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Quite possibly that would violate R101. > -- > ais523 > If it does then so does the 5 CFJ thing

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJs 2154-55

On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 22:04 +0100, Elliott Hird wrote: > 2008/9/20 Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I judge 2154 TRUE and 2155 FALSE. > > > > Proto: The CotC can refuse any CFJ regarding rule 104 or the First Speaker. Quite possibly that would violate R101. -- ais523

DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJs 2154-55

2008/9/20 Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I judge 2154 TRUE and 2155 FALSE. > Proto: The CotC can refuse any CFJ regarding rule 104 or the First Speaker.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: blah

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 11:31 AM, ais523 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is the contract in question powerful enough to terminate itself? Contractual self-termination is R2198, which is powerful enough to allow the contract change (it is, in fact, the same rule that secures contract changes in the fi

Re: DIS: A little tool

On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Ed Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Add something like "Differences between /2 and /3" at the top. And > color-code the text added/removed, with an explanatory legend. I'm not really liking Text_Diff, which is what's used now for the diffs. It seems to get con

Re: DIS: A little tool

comex wrote: > I imported Zefram's rules_text thing and the RCS to make a little > rule-history page: > > http://agora.qoid.us/rule > > This will be more useful when I add diffs, which will be soonish. > Requires Javascript, because I'm too lazy to make it not. Thoughts? More notes: * The l

Re: DIS: A little tool

comex wrote: > I imported Zefram's rules_text thing and the RCS to make a little > rule-history page: > > http://agora.qoid.us/rule > > This will be more useful when I add diffs, which will be soonish. > Requires Javascript, because I'm too lazy to make it not. Thoughts? Add something like "Di

DIS: Re: BUS: Tradition, by

On Tue, 2008-09-16 at 16:09 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: > This I the a CFJ. statement: is on CFJ There is no CFJ with the text "This is a statement", so this lacks sufficient information to be effective, as far as I can tell. -- ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgements, CFJs 2086 and 2087

On Tue, 2008-09-16 at 15:30 -0400, Geoffrey Spear wrote: > On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Kerim Aydin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The "great simplification" purposefully dropped this but didn't replace > > it with anything, on the grounds that doing such would make it part of > > "game custom

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [CotC] CFJ 2107b assigned to OscarMeyr, Murphy, root

On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 18:05 -0400, ihope wrote: > But I might as well be more specific. It's inappropriate on CFJs 1980 > and 1982 because paradox escalation, being bad for the game, is > prevented by rule 217. Paradox escalation isn't bad for the game, because we have a CFJ judgement of UNDECIDABL

DIS: Re: BUS: blah

On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 10:27 -0400, Geoffrey Spear wrote: > On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Geoffrey Spear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I intend, without 3 Objections, to amend the Agoran Civil Service > > contract by replacing its entire text with "This contract immediately > > terminates itself

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Notary] Current Contracts

On Sun, 2008-09-14 at 16:14 -0500, Pavitra wrote: > On Friday 12 September 2008 01:55:17 pm Alexander Smith wrote: > > More details are available on > > the Notary website at . > > On the website, the AFO's text seems to be in quotation >s. Presumably > this