The below CFJ is 3906. I assign it to Jason.
status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#3906
=============================== CFJ 3906 ===============================
With the above-quoted message, Trigon created one Victory Card in
Falsifian's possession.
==========================================================================
Caller: Falsifian
Judge: Jason
==========================================================================
History:
Called by Falsifian: 16 May 2021 14:00:56
Assigned to Jason: [now]
==========================================================================
[Linked to CFJ 3905]
Caller's Evidence:
["Above-quoted message" from CFJ statement]
On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 09:53:28PM +0000, Trigon via agora-official wrote:
> This is the termination message for the First Victory Auction of April 2021.
>
> List of bids (*=withdrawn player):
>
> amount bidder
> ====== ===========
> 100cn G.
> 1cn Jason
> 120cn Jason
> 180cn Falsifian
> 221cn G.
> 222cn ATMunn*
> 230cn Jason
> 300cn Falsifian
> 331cn G.
> 400cn Falsifian
>
> LOT 1: ONE NEW VICTORY CARD
> AWARDEE: Falsifian
>
> I revoke 400 coins from Falsifian and create one victory card in eir
> possession.
>
> (No Faking: That may not have worked)
>
> --
> Trigon
1. Here's the message Trigon used to initate the auction, sent 2021-04-28:
> I, Trigon, the Treasuror of Agora Nomic, being authorized by Rule 2629/0 and
> furthermore being required to do so at least once a month, do hereby initiate
> a Victory Auction.
>
> As the Lost and Found Department owns no assets other than coins, the sole lot
> is a new Victory Card.
>
> The currency for this auction shall be the coin.
>
> The procedure for this auction shall be a Forward Auction, as described by the
> April 2021 draft of the Treasuror's Auction Regulations which can be found at
> the following link:
>
> <https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-official/2021-April/014857.html>
I've copied the message from that link to the bottom of this email.
2. Trigon's enactment of the regulations, dated 2021-05-05:
> On 4/27/21 1:06 AM, Trigon via agora-official wrote:
>> I intend, with 2 Agoran consent, to amend the following auction
>> regulations so that they read as follows.
>
> Having recieved support from Jason and ATMunn and no objections, I do so.
Arguments for the second CFJ:
If the first CFJ is TRUE, I see no reason the second shouldn't be
TRUE too. The auction rules make it clear that the auctioneer can
do this if the auction method allows it, and the auction method is
clear.
If the first CFJ is FALSE because the auction regulation can't
empower Trigon to revoke assets, then I think it comes down to the
interpretation of the following sentence from the draft regulation:
In this message, the auctioneer CAN and SHALL destroy the amount
to be paid from the inventory each awardee and transfer to that
player (or create in eir possession if the item is new) the set
of assets associated with the lot e won.
The form is: "the auctioneer CAN and SHALL do A and B". But if
we've established they can't do A, then they can't do A and B.
This is a bit ambiguous. Maybe the sentence has no effect since the
regulation is trying to empower the auctioneer to do something (A
and B together) that they can't. Or maybe it should be read as
authorizing the auctioneer to do A and also B.
However, even under the second interpretation, I still think it
would be FALSE, because R2545 requires the auction method to be
"generally recognizable ... as a fair, equitable, and timely
[method]". Winning just by being the last person to state a bigger
meaningless number than the last person, when a casual reading of
the the regulations wouldn't make it clear that's the goal, doesn't
seem fair.
Arguments for FALSE for the first CFJ:
Note that the auction began before the regulations were amended. This
may affect interpretation of the clause: "For the purposes of
interpreting auction definitions, such methods are treated as if they
are defined in this rule.", which seems to refer specifically to
auction regulations.
Even if we do consider the new regulation text to have been in force, I
still think it should be FALSE. I think the following quotes from the
recent thread "[Treasuror] [Auction Regulations Proto] Rough Draft for
Redesign" summarise my position (I also included Trigon's reply).
Falsifian:
> Can an auction regulation give the auctioneer the power to destroy
> assets, as this text purports to do?
>
> As far as I can tell the only power this regulation has is that it adds
> some definitions. R2565 grants the auctioneer the power to "transfer
> said items as necessary..." but I think that's referring to the goods
> being auctioned off
Trigon:
> It is quite possible that this does not work; however, if it does the best
> rebuttal is found in R2545¶4:
>
>> The Treasuror is the promulgator for regulations that define
>> specific auction methods (i.e. "the default auction method") and
>> SHOULD do in order to aid trade and commerce. *For the purposes of
>> interpreting auction definitions, such methods are treated as if
>> they are defined in this rule.*
>
> As the section on distribution authorizes the auctioneer to destroy the assets
> and it is considered part of Rule 2545.
Falsifian:
> That's only for the purposes of interpreting the auction definitions,
> though. To me, that just means: if you aren't sure what the auction
> regulations mean, imagine the text placed in R2545, and that will give
> you tho correct interpretation. But this isn't a question of what the
> auction regulations mean --- that's clear enough in this case. So I'm
> not sure the "For the purposes of interpreting..." clause is relevant.
Here is the message from
https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-official/2021-April/014857.html
which Trigon linked to:
> I intend, with 2 Agoran consent, to amend the following auction
> regulations so that they read as follows.
>
> I am willing to stop this intent in case of a breaking bug or issue.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Regulation AM0/1
> Generalized Auction
>
> Generalized auctions exist to give context to the form of other
> types of auctions. They CANNOT be held directly. Other auction
> methods that use this type of auction as a starting point can
> override attributes of generalized auctions except when it is
> explicitly stated that that attribute is not able to be
> overridden.
>
> INITIATION: When a person CAN begin an auction by this or any
> derivative method, e CAN only do so by specifying the type of
> auction method to be held, a list of lots to be auctioned off, and
> the currency for the auction in a public message (henceforth the
> "initiation message"). The bidding period starts at this point.
>
> BIDDING: Players CAN place a bid on an auction in its bidding
> period by creating a public message (henceforth a "bid message")
> specifying a number of the auction's currency as eir bid not equal
> to the bid of another player. Players CAN withdraw from an open
> auction by announcement.
>
> TERMINATION: The bidding period ends four days after the final
> instance of any of the following events' occurance:
> * the auction begins
> * a bid is placed
> * a player withdraws from the auction
>
> RETRIEVAL: When the bidding period ends, the retrieval period
> begins. During the retrieval period, bidders will be allowed to
> retrieve the assets required to pay for their bid. The retrieval
> period lasts three days. Failing to have the requisite assets when
> the retrieval period for an auction ends constitutes the Class 1
> Crime of Underfundedness.
>
> AWARDING: For each auction, there are a number of awardees equal
> to the number of lots. The Nth lot of an auction goes to the Nth
> awardee of that auction. If the identity of an awardee is
> undecidable, then that lot cannot be given away. Auction methods
> specify how awardees are picked for auctions using that method.
>
> PAYMENT AMOUNT: The amount that an awardee in an auction is
> required to pay for eir lot is, unless otherwise specified,
> the amount of the auction's curency specified in eir highest bid
> on that auction.
>
> FUNDED PLAYERS: Derivative auction methods should ensure that only
> players who, at the end of an auction's retrieval period, have at
> least as much of that auction's currency as the amount that e is
> required to pay in that auction (hereafter "funded players") can
> be selected as awardees for auctions using that auction method.
>
> DISTRIBUTION: The auctioneer for an auction CAN and SHALL, within
> seven days of the ending of that auction's retrieval period,
> create a public message (henceforth the "distribution message")
> that contains a full history of bids on the auction and
> withdrawals from the auction. It must also clearly indicate each
> awardee and the lot e recieves. In this message, the auctioneer
> CAN and SHALL destroy the amount to be paid from the inventory
> each awardee and transfer to that player (or create in eir
> possession if the item is new) the set of assets associated with
> the lot e won. Failing to publish a distribution message
> constitutes the Class 3 Crime of Auction Abandonment.
>
> ACTIVE BIDS: The set of active bids for an auction is the set of
> all funded, non-withdrawn players' highest bids on that auction.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Regulation AM1/0
> Forward Auctions
>
> Forward auctions function like generalized auctions except:
>
> * The Nth awardee for a forward auction is the player who
> submitted the Nth-highest active bid on that auction.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Regulation AM2/0
> Sealed-bid Auctions
>
> Sealed-bid auctions function like generalized auctions except:
>
> * Players can only submit bids on a sealed-bid auction if they do
> not have a bid in that auction.
> * Bids must be initially hidden so that it is impossible to tell
> its value but that it is verifiable that the amount bid was
> decided before the bid was placed. Anything that claims to be a
> bid and fits these conditions is considered a bid.
> * The retrieval period for a sealed-bid auction lasts for seven
> days.
> * Each player SHALL reveal eir bid amount on a sealed-bid auction
> while the auction is in its retrieval period. Failing to do so
> is the Class 2 Crime of Potential Faking.
> * The termination message need not indicate any bids for which the
> amount bid is not known.
> * The Nth awardee of a sealed-bid auction is the player whose bid
> is the Nth-highest active bid on that auction.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Regulation AM3/0
> Second-price Auctions
>
> Second-price auctions function like forward auctions except:
>
> * The amount to be paid by the Nth awardee is the amount of the
> auction's currency specified by the (N-1)th highest active bid
> on that auction or the lowest active bid if such a value does
> not exist.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Regulation AM4/0
> Nonwinning-price Auctions
>
> Nonwinning-price auctions function like forward auctions except:
>
> * The amount to by paid by all awardees is the amount of the
> auction's currency specified by the highest active bid on that
> auction not placed by an awardee or the lowest active bid if
> such a value does not exist.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Regulation AM5/0
> Selective-bid Auctions
>
> Selective-bit auctions function like generalized auctions except:
>
> * Bidding messages on a selective-bid auction must also specify a
> lot that is preferred.
> * The Nth awardee of a selective-bid auction is the player who
> placed the highest active bid whose preferred bid is the Nth
> lot.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --
> Trigon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gratuitous Arguments by Trigon:
On 5/16/21 2:00 PM, Falsifian via agora-business wrote:
> I call two CFJs, and suggest that they be linked:
>
> CFJ: With the above-quoted message, Trigon revoked 400 Coins from
> Falsifian.
>
> CFJ: With the above-quoted message, Trigon created one Victory Card in
> Falsifian's possession.
>
> [snip]
>
> Arguments for the second CFJ:
>
> If the first CFJ is TRUE, I see no reason the second shouldn't be
> TRUE too. The auction rules make it clear that the auctioneer can
> do this if the auction method allows it, and the auction method is
> clear.
>
> If the first CFJ is FALSE because the auction regulation can't
> empower Trigon to revoke assets, then I think it comes down to the
> interpretation of the following sentence from the draft regulation:
>
> In this message, the auctioneer CAN and SHALL destroy the amount
> to be paid from the inventory each awardee and transfer to that
> player (or create in eir possession if the item is new) the set
> of assets associated with the lot e won.
>
> The form is: "the auctioneer CAN and SHALL do A and B". But if
> we've established they can't do A, then they can't do A and B.
>
> This is a bit ambiguous. Maybe the sentence has no effect since the
> regulation is trying to empower the auctioneer to do something (A
> and B together) that they can't. Or maybe it should be read as
> authorizing the auctioneer to do A and also B.
>
> However, even under the second interpretation, I still think it
> would be FALSE, because R2545 requires the auction method to be
> "generally recognizable ... as a fair, equitable, and timely
> [method]". Winning just by being the last person to state a bigger
> meaningless number than the last person, when a casual reading of
> the the regulations wouldn't make it clear that's the goal, doesn't
> seem fair.
>
Gratuitous arguments: the definition of an auction is "a way for entities
to give away specified assets (items), grouped into lots, in exchange for
a currency" (Rule 2545/3 ¶1). My inclination here is to say that, should
the first CFJ about whether a lot was transferred be judged FALSE, what I
have done here fails to meet the criteria to be considered an auction as
it is not a way to exchange currency for lots, implying a judgement of FALSE.
> Arguments for FALSE for the first CFJ:
>
> Note that the auction began before the regulations were amended. This
> may affect interpretation of the clause: "For the purposes of
> interpreting auction definitions, such methods are treated as if they
> are defined in this rule.", which seems to refer specifically to
> auction regulations.
>
> Even if we do consider the new regulation text to have been in force, I
> still think it should be FALSE. I think the following quotes from the
> recent thread "[Treasuror] [Auction Regulations Proto] Rough Draft for
> Redesign" summarise my position (I also included Trigon's reply).
>
Gratuitous arguments: I have picked through the wording of Rule 2545/3 and
I have more evidence now than what was quoted, and it lies in Rule 2545/3
¶2, which I present, somewhat abbreviated.
When the rules authorize a person (the auctioneer) to conduct an
auction, e CAN do so by any wholly public method that ... under
common definitions and terms used in auctions, as a fair,
equitable, and timely means of ... enabling the appropriate
exchange of goods.
This is where I believe my logic falls apart, but I would really like my
auctions to work, so attempt to bear with me.
When the rules authorize a person to conduct an auction, we know by ¶1
that that authorizes em to oversee a means of exchanging currency for
lots. This implies that any method that the auctioneer chooses that allows
an equitable auction process has authorization to facilitate such a
transfer by extension of the authorization to perform the auction at all.
Otherwise it would not be an auction by ¶1.
On the other hand, perhaps similar logic could lead one to conclude that
the rules never authorize any player to begin an auction under auction
regulations that fail to allow a method to transfer or destroy coins from
awardees, in which case what I just have done was never was an auction in
the first place.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rule 2545/3 (Power=2)
Auctions
An auction is a way for entities to give away specified assets
(items), grouped into lots, in exchange for a currency. A lot is a
non-empty list of items to be transferred to a single recipient
(an auction winner).
When the rules authorize a person (the auctioneer) to conduct an
auction, e CAN do so by any wholly public method that would be
generally recognizable, as specified by the auctioneer at the
start of the auction, and under common definitions and terms used
in auctions, as a fair, equitable, and timely means of determining
the auction winners from among the current players, and enabling
the appropriate exchange of goods.
The rule that authorizes the auction further authorizes the
auctioneer or auction winners to transfer said items as necessary
to conduct the auction in a manner consistent with the auction
method. If the authorization is to auction "new" items, it further
authorizes the creation of said items as per the chosen method.
The Treasuror is the promulgator for regulations that define
specific auction methods (i.e. "the default auction method") and
SHOULD do in order to aid trade and commerce. For the purposes of
interpreting auction definitions, such methods are treated as if
they are defined in this rule. To further aid trade and commerce,
auction methods should be interpreted in the name of fairness with
deference to the method's clear intent, if intent can be
reasonably inferred.
--
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