Uli -
Thanks for submitting the patch. I'm on board with adding domain support - and
I agree it should be in the library. A couple of things:
1. You should test this change thoroughly before committing it by running
'make distcheck', the hpitest conformance suite, and the OpenHPI client
pro
uild process per default builds the ipmi
> plugin. It
> > can
> > be disabled during configure (./configure --disable-ipmi), which you
> > need to
> > do if you want to build OpenHPI without installing OpenIPMI before.
> >
> > Could we per default have i
Re: defect #3029670
A patch for this issue in the oa_soap plugin (HP c-Class) is attached.
Anton?
--michael
> -Original Message-
> From: SourceForge.net [mailto:nore...@sourceforge.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 1:46 PM
> To: nore...@sourceforge.net
> Subject: [ openhpi-Bugs-30
Anton -
I have no issue with what you are proposing here. Removing dependencies is
good - as long the goal is to make things generally easier to use - and easier
for us to manage build-wise.
The one thing I caution about is thoroughly testing the change. Running
commands like make, make rpm,
, which we had earlier.
> > Copying it from another rev. helped, it works nicely.
> > But may be you might want to add it to the archive.
> > Cheers,
> > Uli
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: ext Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> &
Hello Everyone,
OpenHPI 2.15.0 has been released.
Changelog for 2.15.0
[New Features]
Build System
2953031 - source tree restructing
3005259 - Split marshal and transport code
OpenHPI Clients
2933010 - SAHPI_HS_CAPABILITY_AUTOINSERT_IMMEDIATE support in hpis
s, CO 80528-9599
Phone: 970-898-4393
E-Mail: michael.bis...@hp.com<mailto:michael.bis...@hp.com>
-Original Message-
From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:47 AM
To: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] 7113 as O
f managers.
_____
From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco) [mailto:michael.bis...@hp.com]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 3:43 PM
To: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] 7113 as OpenHPI 2.15.0 release candidate
Greetings again --
Just wondering if anyone in the comm
a bug-fix (Sorry, I submitted it in the wrong
tracker).
Cheers,
Uli
_____
From: ext Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco) [mailto:michael.bis...@hp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:32 PM
To: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
Subject: [Openhpi-devel] OpenHPI 2.15.0 release notes -
Closed 2010-06-23 avpak
-Original Message-----
From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 4:34 PM
To: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
Subject: OpenHPI 2.15.0 release notes - new features
Hello -
I'm starting to put together the rele
have been testing with IPMIdirect and ATCA shelf managers.
_
From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco) [mailto:michael.bis...@hp.com]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 3:43 PM
To: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] 7113 as OpenHPI 2.15.0 release candida
hat I need to explore next is why it takes 213 secs when I have
deactivated 9 boards via shelfmanager command.
Cheers,
Uli
_
From: ext Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco) [mailto:michael.bis...@hp.com]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 9:43 PM
To: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.n
hen I have
deactivated 9 boards via shelfmanager command.
Cheers,
Uli
_
From: ext Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco) [mailto:michael.bis...@hp.com]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 9:43 PM
To: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] 7113 as OpenHPI 2.15.0 re
FYI: The last one on this list [2880420] is out - because it was done in time
for the 2.14.1 release.
--michael
-Original Message-
From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 4:34 PM
To: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
Subject: [Openhpi-devel] Open
Hello -
I'm starting to put together the release notes for the OpenHPI 2.15.0 release.
Below is what I have so far for new features:
Let me know if I missed anything. Tomorrow I'll send out the bug fix list.
--michael
[New Features]
Build System
3005255 Drop UDP transport
Also - if you've been testing either the bladecenter or watchdog plugins -
please speak up. Thanks.
--michael
-Original Message-
From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 1:43 PM
To: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
Subject: Re: [Openhpi
lease let me know if you are testing IPMIdirect. Thanks.
--michael
-Original Message-
From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:18 AM
To: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
Subject: 7113 as OpenHPI 2.15.0 release candidate
Hello Everyone -
lins, CO 80528-9599
Phone: 970-898-4393
E-Mail: michael.bis...@hp.com<mailto:michael.bis...@hp.com>
-Original Message-
From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 9:27 AM
To: 'Kleber, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)'
Cc: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforg
your assignment. :-)
Cheers!
--michael
-Original Message-
From: Kleber, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:ulrich.kle...@nsn.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:01 AM
To: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
Cc: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: RE: Patch for new option to support do
Uli --
I've been testing rev. 7110 with your patch for the OpenHPI client
enhancements. I've tested make, make distcheck, ran the hpitest conformance
tests, built/installed rpms, ran some of the clients, etc. It all looks good -
except I do not see an updated man page for hpiinv - which is on
t; distcheck' as they were recently introduced in the openhpi
> > source tree. It is a combination of changes that folks have
> > made that are causing these issues. The latest top-of-tree
> > (w/ Anton's patch) gets us closest to having 'make distcheck'
namic_simulator
16 failures for the oa_soap plugin
> -----Original Message-
> From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:17 AM
> To: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
> Subject: make distcheck failures on svn trunk
>
>
> Greeting
Uli -
Anton just got the 'make distcheck' issue resolved - and I want to spend some
time looking at your patch and trying it out - before you commit. I'll let you
know as soon as I'm done testing it - hopefully by tomorrow.
--michael
-Original Message-
From:
on@pigeonpoint.com]
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 4:13 PM
To: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
Subject: Re: [oh-tracker] [ openhpi-Bugs-3014969 ] make distcheck failed
on svn trunk
The patch.
Anton Pak
> Anton -
>
> Look at the diffs between these two files. One if from 2.14.1 (a
Uli -
I have not have a chance to review/test your patch yet. I am trying to get
some of the OpenHPI tools (make distcheck) working again that has broken since
2.14.1. As soon as I get these tools working again - I will review your patch
and - attempt to build it.
--michael
-Original
: 15 fails out of 711 tests run.
(same as 7097)
--michael
> -Original Message-
> From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:26 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: RE: [Openhpi-devel] dynamic simu
of 711 tests run.
--michael
> -Original Message-
> From: Lars Wetzel [mailto:lars.wet...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:43 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] dynamic simulat
make[4]: Leaving directory
> `/home/goofy/workspace/openhpi-trunk/openhpi-2.15.0/_build/marshal/t'
> make[3]: *** [check-am] Fehler 2
> make[3]: Leaving directory
> `/home/goofy/workspace/openhpi-trunk/openhpi-2.15.0/_build/marshal/t'
> make[2]: *** [check-recursive] Fehler 1
-9599
Phone: 970-898-4393
E-Mail: michael.bis...@hp.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 10:23 AM
> To: 'Lars Wetzel'
> Cc: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
> Subject: RE: [Openhpi-devel]
Lars -
After you have completed your merge of the dynamic_simulator - you may want to
look at the 'make distcheck' failure that Anton and I are seeing. See below.
Anton has a patch to get passed the first issue we saw with "make distcheck'.
However, there is another issue we are now see when
Everyone:
I just tested: make distcheck
using the OpenHPI top-of-trunk - and there is a regression from the 2.14.1
release.
Normally, 'make distcheck' takes the openhpi source code .gz archive, unpacks
it, builds it, and runs unit tests on it, then builds another archive. Its
kind of a sanity
Bryan -
I'd like to download Lars' branch one more time - and check it out. I can do
this check this afternoon.
Please hold off the merge until I can independently verify that the branch is
working good. Should not be too long.
--michael
> -Original Message-
> From: Sutula, Bryan (O
t...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 1:16 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] dynamic simulator ready for merge
>
>
> Hi
>
> ok, I will start tomorrow evening Europe time (GMT+1
Bryan -
I agree with the Ubuntu community that OpenHPI should not be started by default.
I am fine with either method you have suggested - but I prefer your second
option - simply because it does not violate the syntax rules for the
openhpi.conf file - and perhaps will aviod some user confusion
> Sure.
> The first patch that I tried is already on the devel list.
Uli -
Is this the hpitop.pod.1 attachment (sent earlier) that you are referring to?
--michael
--
ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimat
> > To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] [ openhpi-Bugs-3011456
> > ]DomainSupport forClients
> >
> > Hi Michael,
> > please see inline.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Uli
> >
> > > -Original Message--
gards,
Michael Bishop
Enterprise Servers and Storage (ISB Linux/Telco)
Hewlett-Packard Company
3404 E. Harmony Rd. Bldg. 5L, Post B7, Mailstop 42
Fort Collins, CO 80528-9599
Phone: 970-898-4393
E-Mail: michael.bis...@hp.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Te
or tar instead? The changes are not big and can still be
> done using patch (~ 80 lines per client).
>
> Cheers,
> Uli
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ext Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> > [mailto:michael.bis...@hp.com
w
> > domain support code will not break existing OpenHPI functionality?
> >
> > --michael
> >
> > Regards,
> > Michael Bishop
> > Enterprise Servers and Storage (ISB Linux/Telco)
> > Hewlett-Packard Company
> > 3404 E. Harmony Rd. Bldg. 5L, Post
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 11:49 PM
> To: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Cc: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: RE: [Openhpi-devel] [ openhpi-Bugs-3011456 ] Domain Support
> forClients
>
>
> Hi,
> I would very much like to contribute this domain suppor
Uli -
I'm wondering what your plans are with respect to submitting code for Domain
Support for clients?
We're waiting on Lars Wetzel to finish up his work on the dynamic_simulator -
once he gets the go-ahead from you to merge his branch with top-of-trunk.
After the merge, the plan was to star
p.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Lars Wetzel [mailto:lars.wet...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:47 AM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco); mo...@fc.hp.com
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] New simulator testing
>
ailstop 42
Fort Collins, CO 80528-9599
Phone: 970-898-4393
E-Mail: michael.bis...@hp.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Lars Wetzel [mailto:lars.wet...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:52 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB Li
Lars Wetzel [mailto:lars.wet...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:52 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco); Devarajulu, Mohanasundaram;
> Kleber, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich)
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] New simulator testing
&
Lars -
When you are done making corrections and adjustments to your dynamic_simulator,
please let us know so that we can download it from your development branch and
run additional testing on it.
Once testing is completed - and everyone is satisfied with the quality - we can
then proceed to th
m: Lars Wetzel [mailto:lars.wet...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 9:48 AM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Kleber, Ulrich (NSN - DE/Munich); Devarajulu, Mohanasundaram;
> Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] New simulator testing
&
Anton -
I like hpibrowser - and I don't think that name has been used before.
For guidance, I suggest googling for an svn how-to guide - and it should be
pretty easy to add a new directory. You might want to wait for others to chime
in before you commit your changes. I'd suggest waiting until
Anton -
I agree that is the right place for this.
--michael
> -Original Message-
> From: anton@pigeonpoint.com [mailto:anton@pigeonpoint.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 3:35 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: 'openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net'
> Subject: R
Anton -
That sounds good. So in this proposed organization, the HPI GUI app source
would not even be in the main openhpi development tree. Is that right?
--michael
> -Original Message-
> From: anton@pigeonpoint.com [mailto:anton@pigeonpoint.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010
Anton -
Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself here - but it sounds like the HPI GUI app
source code could be included in the OpenHPI project - but that the user would
be responsible for downloading the QT4 development/runtime kit prior to
building it? If this is what you are envisioning, then th
Anton -
I'm assuming the HPI GUI application you are proposing requires the QT4
libraries to compile/run. Is that right?
If QT4 is LGPL2/GPL3 - isn't that going to cause issues if we include those
libraries with OpenHPI - given that OpenHPI is BSD? I think it would be an
issue.
Or is your th
ple-simulator?
>
> 3. I would prefer the possibility to have separate logfiles if you
>activate two plugins.
>
> Cheers,
> Uli
>
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ext Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> > [mailto:michae
Anton -
The slides look great - and this would be a fine addition to OpenHPI.
A few questions:
1. Is this application copyrighted, trademarked, or in anyway protected from
redistribution thru OpenHPI's BSD-style license? In other words, what are the
legal issues surrounding this?
2. Are you
esday, May 26, 2010 1:57 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco); Devarajulu, Mohanasundaram
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] New simulator testing
>
>
> Hi Mohan and Michael,
>
> I will investigate it. But due to some other tasks, I
Lars -
I agree with Mohan that debug messages should not be turned on by default.
I'm not sure the old simulator should be removed from openhpi.conf. Perhaps it
could be commented out - and the new simulator used as the default plug-in.
Does anyone else have an opinion about this? If the new
> Current libriries:
>
> [~/trunk/lib] ls -1 *.so
> libohtcpconnx.so
> libohudpconnx.so
> libopenhpi.so
> libopenhpi_snmp.so
> libopenhpi_ssl.so
> libopenhpimarshal.so
> libopenhpiutils.so
>
> What say?
>
> Anton Pak
>
> On Fri, 21 May 2010 18:
Anton -
Those changes are fine with me. Are you planning to include them in 2.15.0
(sheduled for late-June 2010)??
--michael
Regards,
Michael Bishop
Enterprise Servers and Storage (ISB Linux/Telco)
Hewlett-Packard Company
3404 E. Harmony Rd. Bldg. 5L, Post B7, Mailstop 42
Fort Collins, CO 8
27;ve attached the
output I'm seeing when running this sample client.
--michael
> -Original Message-
> From: Lars Wetzel [mailto:lars.wet...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 3:03 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB L
riday, May 14, 2010 3:03 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] new simulator - cannot build RPMs
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> with rev 7075 the entity root coming from the simulation data
> file
p.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Lars Wetzel [mailto:lars.wet...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 3:03 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] new simulator - cannot build RPMs
>
>
&g
Please note that I'm not trying to create more work for you - I'm simply giving
you my opinion on how I would expect/want it to work.
--michael
> -Original Message-
> From: Lars Wetzel [mailto:lars.wet...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 2:58 PM
> To:
Phone: 970-898-4393
E-Mail: michael.bis...@hp.com
> -Original Message-
> From: AGRAWAL MUKUL-a24103 [mailto:mukulagra...@motorola.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:20 AM
> To: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Cc: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject:
> This seems reasonable if the simulator behaves like the other
> plug-ins.
> Does this mean that you can run several instances of the new simulator
> with different data files for each, assuming you have multiple stanzas
> in the openhpi.conf file?
>
> Bryan
Good question, Bryan.
Lars have you t
age-
> From: Lars Wetzel [mailto:lars.wet...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 1:34 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net; Bishop, Michael (ISB
> Linux/Telco)
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] new simulator - cannot build RPMs
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> you c
Mukal -
Please check out the OpenHPI top-of-trunk - and see if the problem is
reproducible there. If you are able to reproduce the issue - please submit a
ticket for this issue against the OpenHPI project at:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=71730
Also, from your analysis - are you i
-----Original Message-----
> From: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:25 PM
> To: 'Lars Wetzel'; openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] new simulator - cannot build RPMs
>
>
> Lars -
>
> Thanks for your att
Collins, CO 80528-9599
Phone: 970-898-4393
E-Mail: michael.bis...@hp.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Lars Wetzel [mailto:lars.wet...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 12:35 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco
80528-9599
Phone: 970-898-4393
E-Mail: michael.bis...@hp.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Lars Wetzel [mailto:lars.wet...@t-online.de]
> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 2:22 PM
> To: openhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> Subject: Re: [
Lars -
I attempted to build the new simulator branch today - but ran into issues when
I built the OpenHPI rpms.
Attached is a log of the "make rpms" output.
I normally, and would rather, test using rpms, as I can better control the
installation and removal of specific OpenHPI features.
Please
Lars -
Have you been getting any response to your request for other OpenHPI folks to
test out your new simulator? I must admit that I have not had time to try it
out - however, I should have some time available next week to give it a
shakedown.
I would like to have at least three people try i
Hello All -
Patch for feature request #2991532.
I've created a patch to implement new tests for the newly added oa_soap power
management controls. (#2991532: Add oa_soap unit tests for new power management
features.)
It changes the following files:
openhpi/plugins/oa_soap/debug/hpi_common.c
o
nt #2984110 for review
>
>
> On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 20:30 +0000, Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco)
> wrote:
>
> > Comments are welcome.
>
> Well...you asked...
>
> In the past, the project has tried to pay attention to code format.
> (Ref http://openhpi.org/Devel
Hello All -
I've created a patch to implement enhancement #2984110 (Add dynamic power cap
control of OA Firmware 3.0). This patch affects the HP c-Class oa_soap plugin
only - and is backwards compatible with previous OA firmware revisions.
It changes the following files:
openhpi/include/SaHpi
Hello All -
I've created a patch for defect #2979598 (DataLength of IDR field should not
include trailing blanks). This patch only affects the HP c-Class oa_soap
plugin.
This defect was found during OpenSAF testing.
It changes the following files:
openhpi/plugins/oa_soap/oa_soap_discover.c
op
on the OpenIPMI plugin. We use ipmitool event for
> > simulation.
> >
> > Would this all still work with the IPMI direct plugin? What
> > is the status of the IPMI direct plugin?
> >
> > We appreciate all the work done on this project.
> >
> > Thanks,
gt; Would this all still work with the IPMI direct plugin? What
> is the status of the IPMI direct plugin?
>
> We appreciate all the work done on this project.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shaheen
>
> ---------------
> Message: 2
> D
Lars -
I have a concern which is the possibility of breaking OpenHPI regression
tests. I have not run the regression tests myself (not yet - but I will later
when I start working on the release process) - so I'm somewhat unfamiliar with
the level at which they do testing.
Are you familiar wi
penhpi-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Bishop, Michael (ISB Linux/Telco); 'Anton Pak'; Sutula,
> Bryan (Open
> Source Program Office)
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] 2.15.0 Plans
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> I work at the moment on a new simulator plugin and hope to
&g
Anton -
Thanks for your question - and it is a good one. I appreciate that you brought
it up.
My thoughts along these lines:
2.15.0 is a development release - and as such it will have some enhancements.
For instance, I'm currently developing an enhancement for the oa_soap plugin to
provide p
Anton -
Attached is a 3 line patch for the openhpid/Makefile.am file to correct a
configure error when running "make rpm".
--michael
openhpid-makefile.am.patch
Description: openhpid-makefile.am.patch
--
Download Intel
s.sourceforge.net; Bishop, Michael (ISB
> Linux/Telco)
> Subject: Re: [Openhpi-devel] openHPI plugins
>
>
> Good question. That isn't my decision.
>
> Michael,
> Should the ipmi plugin be deprecated? Are there any users of it that
> would object?
>
> Andy
>
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