To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=105587 Issue #|105587 Summary|Fidelity Bugs in RTF Component|Word processor Version|OOo 3.0.1 Platform|Opteron/x86_64 URL| OS/Version|Linux Status|UNCONFIRMED Status whiteboard| Keywords| Resolution| Issue type|DEFECT Priority|P3 Subcomponent|open-import Assigned to|writerneedsconfirm Reported by|anthony_glenn
------- Additional comments from anthony_gl...@openoffice.org Sun Oct 4 10:24:43 +0000 2009 ------- Sometimes I try to persuade some of our local bureaucrats, here in Canberra, Australia, that it would be a good idea to install Open Office on their computers. I am trying to get them away from endlessly paying lots of money to Microsoft, buying new expensive computers, when they do not need to, and generally wasting the poor old taxpayer's money. So far, I am struggling uphill. I have apparently not persuaded any bureaucrat. When I speak to local politicians about the problem of waste, they seem to not understand. They tell me everything would be fine if only the mean old federal government would give them all the money which they are convinced they are entitled to. Sigh. However, there is one small ray of hope in the fight against Microsoft proprietary lock-in. Our local legal bureaucrats seem to have some understanding that the .DOC file format is the source of the lock-in. So they offer documents to the public, on their website, in both PDF and RTF (Rich Text Format). For example, see: http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/af/2006-76/ This particular document is the Pensioner rates rebate application form, a one page document which is likely to be downloaded by pensioners. Now, your average pensioner is not the greatest computer expert in the world. If they download a document it has to Just Work. To Adobe's credit, the PDF version Just Works. So also, does the RTF version, but only in Microsoft Word. Microsoft, to its credit, has been quietly supporting RTF format, for decades. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Text_Format I tested the document, using dear old Word 97 (which is 12 years old now, and counting). The RTF version is fine except for a slight fidelity error with the logo picture at the top. However, the rest of the form is beautifully usable. People would be able to use it just fine. Alas, when I tested with Open Office, the form was an unusable mess. I tried v2.4.3 for Windows 98 and v3.0.1 for Ubuntu 9.04. What came up in Open Office bore no resemblance to what it should have been. Try it, see for yourself. Now, this really gives me a problem when trying to persuade local bureaucrats. They can point out, entirely accurately, that the forms they are offering to the public right now, are just fine in any version of Microsoft Word, but turn into an unusable mess in Open Office. There is no chance whatsoever of me, or anybody else, persuading them to transition to Open Office, while that situation prevails. I am not talking about minor fidelity problems, where a few things get to be a few pixels out of position. The form turns into an utter shambles in Open Office, unrecognisable as a useful form. This is not an airy-fairy theoretical problem, this is what is happening right now, today, to real people trying to use office software. Please, you must take this seriously. I even said to myself, "OK, I will manually re-format the document in Open Office myself, then write a correct RTF file, which will work properly everywhere." Nope, that did not work. That gave me an RTF document which was fine in Open Office but failed in Word. I cannot even say to bureaucrats, "Work in Open Office, then both Word and Open Office can read the RTF file." It just does not work. No amount of frenzied promotion of Open Office is going to do the slightest good, if these fidelity problems remain. Likewise, copying the "ribbon" user interface will not do the slightest good, but might get you into legal trouble. Many users hate the ribbon interface as well. Do not waste your time on it. The existing menu interface is just fine. Ribbon users will happily go back to the menu interface, provided you do not leave it too long. Governments and large companies will transition from MS Office to Open Office ONLY when they can keep their existing documents, without doing a huge amount of work re-formatting everything. You must deal with the fidelity problems. Yes, I know, Microsoft plays the proprietary lock-in game at champion level. Their documentation, where they allegedly document their formats, sucks deeply. Microsoft has been using undocumented features in everything they do, for decades, as a competitive weapon. That situation is not going to change. Deal with it. However, what they cannot change is the actual behaviour of their existing software. That gives you a stable target to test against. Yes, reverse engineering is a pain. Too bad, do it. The fidelity problems are at the heart of why Open Office is not getting adopted by large organisations. Individuals can and do say, "Too bad about the fidelity problems. I am not paying Microsoft more money." But for everybody in large organisations, their software is paid for BY SOMEBODY ELSE. Their attitude is that they are going to have a major hissy fit, if anybody tries to make them use something that costs them a whole lot of extra work. They have lots of existing documents which just plain better work, or else. In large organisations, the senior decision makers are all so focussed on office politics, that they do not have many neurones left for making decisions. That makes ALL of them act dumb and lazy, regardless of any impressions to the contrary you might get in conversation. If Open Office causes fidelity problems then that will cause screams of anguish from the users. There is no way the decision makers are going to put up with that. That would mean a decision by them was followed by screams, which looks bad politically. That is not going to happen. So your problem, when it comes to getting Open Office adopted, is that your friends are all dumb, plus they are intolerant of your mistakes. Meanwhile, Microsoft is full of geniuses who are determined that you will not succeed; their jobs depend on it. So your friends are dumb and your enemies are smart. Too bad. Please please, get the fidelity problems fixed. Forget about the ribbon interface. That is not holding you up right now. Your problem right now is the fidelity problem. Get the bugs fixed and the holes filled in. That is what the vast majority of users want. I have yet to see a document from any government department which could not be produced by Open Office as it is right now. They could adopt Open Office, provided the transition process is not a nightmare. Your real problem is making the transition less painful, plus the continuing installed base of competitor software. The converters to and from RTF have to work flawlessly. RTF is an easier target than .DOC format, because it is documented much better, plus it has been relatively stable for a long time. It is also a text-only format which you can actually inspect with a text editor. That makes it easier, as well. If RTF was working, then adopting Open Office becomes a whole lot more feasible. Right now, it is impossible, due to the fidelity problems. Please get RTF fixed. -- Regards, Anthony Glenn Phone: (02) 6286 3903 (h & w) 32 Brookman Street, TORRENS, ACT, 2607, AUSTRALIA PC Users Group (ACT), Email: <agl...@pcug.org.au> Personal website: www.netspeed.com.au/adglenn/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please do not reply to this automatically generated notification from Issue Tracker. 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