Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for General Thoughts

2013-06-13 Thread William Herrin
On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:16 AM, Jason Schiller jschil...@google.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 8:28 PM, William Herrin b...@herrin.us wrote: Jason's closed-door partisan draft. I appreciate this is a difficult topic. I tried to keep this draft as simply recording the current state of

Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2013-4: RIR Principles / Request for GeneralThoughts

2013-06-13 Thread Mike Burns
Hi Paul, Principles should apply always, in every condition, so I cringe at your use of the term current guiding principles whose adjectives seem to vitiate the strength of the word. The goal of conservation dictated a practice of needs based allocation in the condition of free pool

Re: [arin-ppml] A Redefinition of IPv4 Need post ARINrun-out(was:Re:Against 2013-4)

2013-06-13 Thread lar
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 22:05:12 -0400 Hi Mike, It feels like we have been here before, Mike Burns m...@nationwideinc.com wrote: Hi Brian, I understand that there is a danger of overpurchasing (by whomever's definition) that comes from the removal of a needs test for transfers. In most cases

Re: [arin-ppml] A Redefinition of IPv4 Need post ARINrun-out(was:Re:Against 2013-4)

2013-06-13 Thread Mike Burns
Hi Larry, Yes, we have been here before. This conversation is in the context of considering a cap on needs-free transfers. Such a cap would obviate the objection you raise, that competitors will gobble up enough IPv4 address to stifle their competitors' ability to acquire more. No matter how

Re: [arin-ppml] A Redefinition of IPv4 Need post ARINrun-out(was:Re:Against2013-4)

2013-06-13 Thread Jason Schiller
I would be opposed to a flat out cap that allows requests under a certain size to not require need and requests over that size to require need. This is an unfair burden to organizations who require lots of address space for growth. Consider a small rural residential ISP, with a /22. - This ISP

Re: [arin-ppml] A Redefinition of IPv4 Need post ARINrun-out(was:Re:Against 2013-4)

2013-06-13 Thread Scott Leibrand
On Jun 13, 2013, at 8:35 AM, l...@mwtcorp.net wrote: On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 22:05:12 -0400 Hi Mike, It feels like we have been here before, Mike Burns m...@nationwideinc.com wrote: Hi Brian, I understand that there is a danger of overpurchasing (by whomever's definition) that comes

Re: [arin-ppml] A Redefinition of IPv4 Need post ARINrun-out(was:Re:Against2013-4)

2013-06-13 Thread Mike Burns
Hi Jason and thanks for your interesting reply. As you know, my original proposal was not based on a cap that is based on the size of the entity, but instead on the number of addresses allowed to be transferred without a needs test per annum.There was a suggestion that this cap instead be

Re: [arin-ppml] A Redefinition of IPv4 Need post ARINrun-out(was:Re:Against2013-4)

2013-06-13 Thread Brian Jones
See inline comments. -- Brian On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Mike Burns m...@nationwideinc.com wrote: Hi Brian, Thanks for your thoughts. No doubt a more vigorous transfer market will lead to more router misconfigurations. I think a knowledgeable middle-man could help mitigate that,