[arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Dear ARIN-PPML, Hope this email finds you in good health! Please see my comments below, inline... Le lundi 6 septembre 2021, John Santos a écrit : > Exactly what service or services does Cloud Innovation provide to its > customers, apart from raw IP addresses? > > Hi John, Thanks to ask this s

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

In message Christian Orozco wrote: >You already pointed out that there are hundreds of companies and yet you >still see CI's reach as "small." That simply does not sound right. You may >also want to check the LARUS website for their customer reference ( >https://www.larus.net/customers) and cros

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Hello Ronald, You already pointed out that there are hundreds of companies and yet you still see CI's reach as "small." That simply does not sound right. You may also want to check the LARUS website for their customer reference ( https://www.larus.net/customers) and cross-check the BGP. If you sti

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

In message , Christian Orozco wrote: >Cloud Innovation serves hundreds of networks, some of which are considered >as the largest telecommunication companies in the world and the largest >Cloud service providers even. >It would totally help to check the BGP first for your information. That >will

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Exactly what service or services does Cloud Innovation provide to its customers, apart from raw IP addresses? On 9/6/2021 6:02 AM, Christian Orozco wrote: Hi Ronald, Cloud Innovation serves hundreds of networks, some of which are considered as the largest telecommunication companies in the w

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

As you seem to know well, can you detail the type of these 'network services' provided and also if the justifications given to AfriNic by the actual resource holder for the IP addresses involved in these services when they were assigned are still the same ? Fernando On 06/09/2021 07:02, Chris

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Hi Ronald, Cloud Innovation serves hundreds of networks, some of which are considered as the largest telecommunication companies in the world and the largest Cloud service providers even. It would totally help to check the BGP first for your information. That will best answer your question. Reg

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

In message , Christian Orozco wrote: >... However, your statements on Mr Lu >could be easily misinterpreted by people who have not understood well how >CI is able to provide trusted service to millions of end-users... How you you know that Mr. Lu is providing service to millions of end-users?

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

On 5 Sep 2021, at 2:03 PM, Mary Lee Salazar mailto:mpsalaz...@up.edu.ph>> wrote: Hello Mr. Curran. I will reiterate Mr. Lu's statement. "Unless ARIN admits it has been given the justification submitted to AFRINIC by Cloud Innovation in past years, we don't think it is within ARIN’s mandate to

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Hello Mr. Curran. I will reiterate Mr. Lu's statement. *"Unless ARIN admits it has been given the justification submitted to AFRINIC by Cloud Innovation in past years, we don't think it is within ARIN’s mandate to comment whether it is being used for the same purpose or not. John, please clarif

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Christian - Our statement regarding "AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System” is accurate to the best of my knowledge, and whether Mr Lu’s actions detailed therein "put him and his business in such a bad light” is not my concern – my concern is making sure that the ARIN

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Hello John, Thank you for your willingness to address questions that I might have. I just want to mention that I am very much aware of the article. Thus, I understand well the position of ARIN on this issue. There is no question on ARIN's support for AFRINIC and I do appreciate the concept of mut

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

On 2021-09-02 2:01 p.m., Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: In message , Owen DeLong wrote: ... there really isn't anywhere else for most of those organizations to go and renumbering such massive networks in 90 days is extraordinarily impractical even if it were possible. Are you sure about that "re

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Le jeu. 2 sept. 2021 à 20:30, Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML a écrit : > > > On Sep 2, 2021, at 04:22 , Noah wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, 13:35 Christian Orozco, wrote: > >> >> AfriNIC has tried to stop the internet connectivity for those millions >> of users with complete disregard of the in

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

In message , Owen DeLong wrote: >The claim that those users could go directly to AFRINIC given >AFRINIC's refusal to recognize the validity of out-of-region >utilization is patently absurd. Can you provide a refrence or a URL which would illustrate this alleged "refusal to recognize the vali

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

In message , Owen DeLong wrote: >... there really isn't >anywhere else for most of those organizations to go and renumbering such >massive networks in 90 days is extraordinarily impractical even if it were >possible. Are you sure about that "renumbering" part? >From where I am sitting it appea

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

> On Sep 2, 2021, at 04:22 , Noah wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, 13:35 Christian Orozco, > wrote: > > AfriNIC has tried to stop the internet connectivity for those millions of > users with complete disregard of the internet stability. > > > See below an e

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Good Morning Christian - If you have a particular question about ARIN’s position on the AFRINIC dispute (as delineated in the referenced article on ARIN’s web site entitled "AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System”), then I’d be happy to clarify it in response to any pa

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, 13:35 Christian Orozco, wrote: > > AfriNIC has tried to stop the internet connectivity for those millions of > users with complete disregard of the internet stability. > See below an extract from AFRNIC CEO message on the termination of CIL which debunks your false claim ab

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Hi John, I think Cloud Innovation has made it very clear that the question you and a few others have raised is *sub judice*. It looks like you are intervening in this lawsuit so you can give AfriNIC the technical advantage even if they are in the wrong. Mr. Lu Heng has also made it clear to you t

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, 05:31 Michel Py via ARIN-PPML, wrote: > > > > Noah wrote : > > About 80k. > > Cloud Innovation become a resource member back in 2013, meaning they > have been a member for 7 - 8 years now. > > As such, assuming they pay $10,000/- times 8 years = $80,000/- in my > humble opinio

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

> Ronald F. Guilmette wrote : > I think that you are overlooking the obvious. I should have tagged it with . That being said, and I'm not happy about it, but it appears to me that the best course of action is to support John and ARIN in this matter. No matter how imperfect AFRINIC is, and ackno

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, 04:42 Michel Py via ARIN-PPML, wrote: > > Indeed. > I don't think it's right to make money leasing IP addresses that were > obtained by the millions for a somehow low cost. > About 80k. I read there were 4 installments, can someone share how much Cloud > Innovation has paid

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

In message , Michel Py wrote: >No simple yes/no response even from AfriNic ? If you are the one asking >the question ? I think that you are overlooking the obvious. It is implicit in the action that AFRINIC took (i.e. to reclaim the space) and it also has been stated by AFRINIC in clear terms

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

John - Thanks for the clarification. > John Curran wrote : > That presumes that Cloud Innovation actually requested the address space for > that purpose, and hence why many are asking > Cloud Innovation (and those associated with CI) the question "Is Cloud > Innovation’s use of the blocks in qu

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

I won’t speak to ARIN’s current practice in case things have changed, but last I knew, and for many years, so long as the least specific aggregate is announced within the ARIN region, out-of-region more specifics are not considered a problem. Owen > On Aug 31, 2021, at 19:00 , Michel Py via AR

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

On 31 Aug 2021, at 10:59 PM, arin-ppml@arin.net wrote: ... If Cloud Innovation has indicated that they predominantly “lease” the IP address space to other parties, then why did AfriNic grant their request in the first place, if it violates their policy ? Michel - Tha

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

>> Michel Py wrote : >> I have a dumb question : under what conditions is it OK to use an ARIN IP >> address in another RIR region ? >> I have a specific situation in mind : a global organization (with physical >> infrastructure in all 5 RIRs) >> is using ARIN addresses in a country in the RIPE r

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

In message <612ebb9c.4070...@ipinc.net>, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >On 8/29/2021 3:15 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: >> AFRINIC's free pool and also (b) manipulating the WHOIS records of numerous >> long-abandonded AFRINIC legacy blocks so as to effectively cede control of >> those blocks to vario

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

On Wed, 1 Sep 2021, Michel Py via ARIN-PPML wrote: Hi list and ARIN, I have a dumb question : under what conditions is it OK to use an ARIN IP address in another RIR region ? I have a specific situation in mind : a global organization (with physical infrastructure in all 5 RIRs) is using ARI

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Hi list and ARIN, I have a dumb question : under what conditions is it OK to use an ARIN IP address in another RIR region ? I have a specific situation in mind : a global organization (with physical infrastructure in all 5 RIRs) is using ARIN addresses in a country in the RIPE region (and most

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Since you are jumping on the bandwagon I will also: On 8/29/2021 3:15 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: In message Michel Py wrote: +1 I also would like to jump onto this bandwagon and likewise express my appreciation for John's publication of his missive in support of AFRINIC. AFRINIC's f

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

If we do, can we make TL;DR a requirement? Over the years, what we all seem to agree on is legacy -discuss was a fail. Kudos for the realization. ARIN resources should support excellence at issuing IP numbers and doing it inexpensively and trying to _reduce_ member attention span required and expe

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

I believe this type of topic which John shared to this list is indeed relevant to it. I don't think all messages sent here should be only about proposals, but also to subjects directly related Policy Development Process and RIR IP Assignments. Most of people who actively participate on this ty

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

In message Michel Py wrote: >+1 I also would like to jump onto this bandwagon and likewise express my appreciation for John's publication of his missive in support of AFRINIC. I have a rather special and personal reason to be interested in these matters, as some of you no doubt know. As those

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

In message , John Curran wrote: >I note that the prior arin-discuss list was only open to ARIN members >- do you have a particularly viewpoint on its replacement? As I believe you are aware, I am not a member. So yes, my view is that a general discussion list should be open to non-members. R

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

On 28 Aug 2021, at 2:53 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > Although I have, at present, a number of outstanding disagreements with > Owen DeLong on a range of issues, I would just like to echo what seems > to be his sentiment, i.e. that it would be helpful if there existed something > like an ari

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 7:44 PM Lu Heng wrote: > > Cloud innovation accounts for 80% of all AFRINIC whois updates in 2021 > to date and in AFRINIC whois, Look dude, when your current business model is that of leasing IPv4 as a product in themself by dashing out LOA's all over the place while pr

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Although I have, at present, a number of outstanding disagreements with Owen DeLong on a range of issues, I would just like to echo what seems to be his sentiment, i.e. that it would be helpful if there existed something like an arin-discuss@ or arin-talk@ mailing list where topics of relevance to

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

> Fernando Frediani wrote : > I don't really agree every time I read stuff like "Every RIR should resolve > their own problems". +1 I will join you thanking John and the ARIN team for posting. Everyone knows that I have not always agreed with what ARIN or John have done; since I can not be sus

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Since you have, in the past, repeatedly admonished people, myself included, that ppml is for discussion of matters relating to ARIN policy, is this a general expansion of the list charter going forward, or merely an exception you’re making for this topic? Owen — simply seeking clarity. > On

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Hi John: Yes, it’s a matter for something called “community discuss” or “APNIC talk” in other regions, but I understand PPML are only for polices not community matters, and have seen people been remind same multiple times. And I have sent a request to ARIN ask where is ARIN version of community d

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Mr. Lu - To be clear, the article was posted to ARIN ppml mailing list so that the ARIN community is aware of ARIN’s stance on this matter. It is expected that members of the community may have questions or wish to discuss it (yourself included) – hence it is perfectly appropriate for anyone t

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

And since you are happy to put my clarification next to your post, you welcome to use the content i posted here in ARIN blog website where you original post is, for public to form a balanced opinion they deserve. Martin Hannigan 于2021年8月28日 周六上午3:48写道： > > > I wasn’t worried. :-) > > > > On Fri

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

I wasn’t worried. :-) On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 15:41 Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML wrote: > > > > On Aug 27, 2021, at 11:53 , Robert Clarke wrote: > > > >> Mr. Lu (and/or Owen) - > > > > > > Owen + Lu are the same person? > > Um, no… Not at all. > > Even Mr. Curran will agree with this simple fac

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Hi John, While I see no relevance to continue this discussion at ARIN PPML as it has no relevance to ARIN policy matters, maybe the AUP committee can make a suggestion as to whether we should we continue discussion here or somewhere else? The detail ARIN requested at that time was Personal identi

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

> On Aug 27, 2021, at 11:53 , Robert Clarke wrote: > >> Mr. Lu (and/or Owen) - > > > Owen + Lu are the same person? Um, no… Not at all. Even Mr. Curran will agree with this simple fact, having met both of us on several occasions. Owen ___ ARIN

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

> Mr. Lu (and/or Owen) - Owen + Lu are the same person? Regards, Robert > On Aug 27, 2021, at 11:31 AM, John Curran wrote: > > ___ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (AR

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 at 09:44, Lu Heng <h.l...@anytimechinese.com> wrote: Dear John: The statements you made are very misleading. Here are some clarifications: Cloud Innovation is disputing AFRINIC’s claim

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Dear John: The statements you made are very misleading. Here are some clarifications: Cloud Innovation is disputing AFRINIC’s claim that Cloud Innovation is in breach of the agreement. Cloud Innovation maintains that we are a compliant member. 1. While I make no comment regarding the justificat

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

Hello John Congratulations for making this public statement in a very clear and fair way based on facts that happened and real evidence. I don't really agree every time I read stuff like "Every RIR should resolve their own problems". Obviously there is some specific stuff of the region and t

[arin-ppml] AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System

ARIN Community - In response to questions about the dispute in the AFRINIC region, please refer to the following article (link and text attached below – FYI, /John John Curran President and CEO