" assumption we were working under is a Stone Pony that loses money. Someone still has to own it. Unless they are independantly wealthy and can absorb the loss to keep it open for sentimental reasons, it makes no sense for that owner to keep it. Business is business. Tillie is dead because no one could re-coup a $16 million investment with pinball machine quarters as a return. Economics rule (as it should)."
Tommy you suffer under a primitive and naïve notion of economics and business practice. Were it true that an owner would not keep a product or service that loses money; there'd be no loss leaders, institutional advertising or charitable contributions, for none makes a profit. The economics, to which you refer, was the norm during the days of the robber barons. It's not surprising that republicans still idealize those days; that was a period marked by rapacious acts towards workers, resources, consumers and other business entities. There is a certain intoxication associated with destroying all that surrounds you to further individual appetites, and there is no better example locally than The Fishman, whose commitment to this practice is so complete that he now destroys and lays waste his own assets. You mention a $16 million investment in Tillie failing for lack of sufficient quarters, yet Fishman paid no where near that sum for the whole 56 acre site. Unfortunately for Larry, you and your brethren, the world has become far too interconnected and complex to tolerate short term greed. Those of you who fail to risk short-term moneys to preserve and enhance assets that generate interest, traffic and goodwill, invariably lose the long-term struggle for business success. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > JJ the assumption we were working under (which you started with your > Liberty Bell post) is a Stone Pony that loses money. Someone still > has to own it. Unless they are independantly wealthy and can absorb > the loss to keep it open for sentimental reasons, it makes no sense > for that owner to keep it. Business is business. Tillie is dead > because no one could re-coup a $16 million investment with pinball > machine quarters as a return. Economics rule (as it should). > > As for all your Bruce facts, you forgot one: Bruce was never, ever > a booked act at the Pony. Not once. Not in the 70's, 80's or 90's. > The first time his name ever graced the marquee was in 2001 for a > benefit show. > > I sure hope the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame doesn't find out about > that little tid-bit. I always correct people when they claim the > Pony launched Bruce or vice versa. > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "jerseyjohn99" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "bluebishop82" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I will make one point now based upon your post though. Assuming > > > your Liberty Bell scenario, where the Pony doesn't make a profit > > but > > > draws tourists to the town, who then will own and operate a > > business > > > that loses money for the purpose of bringing in tourists so > others > > > can make money? You, Mr. Rockefeller? > > > > If I had the financial strength to buy the Pony, it's liquor > > license, and it's legacy back in 1999 for the asking price of > > $400,000, Dominic would have had a bidding war on his hands. If I > > remember correctly, since that deal was signed in Feb '99, Bruce > has > > had 3 world tours, 5 annual series of Holiday concerts in Asbury, > 2 > > new studio albums, 2 concert DVDs, 2 Live Albums, and a > Compilations > > album. Would you agree that SOME people came to Asbury Park to see > > the Pony because of Bruce? You think all these people would have > > flocked to Ole's instead? > > > > Using the Liberty Bell example, again, I can list dozens of > > businesses that draw tourists to towns that aren't getting their > > fair cut of the pie. With apologies to a respected poster on this > > board, I believe there is an author's restored house in Asbury > Park > > that fits this category. > > > > Did you ever buy a piece of art, or even better, get an autograph > of > > someone you admired? Did you do this because you expected it to go > > up in value? I have autographs of about 50 baseball players from a > > trip to Hank Aaron's enshrinement in Cooperstown in the early 80s, > > and I could care less what they are worth. (Hmmm..I even remember > > fondly the day my Dad drove me 8 hours up into Nowhere, NY. > > Wow...nice racket Cooperstown has going). To me my autographs are > a > > connection to the past, a reminder that I met Joe DiMaggio & Ted > > Williams, who both retired 20 years before I was born, and got a > > smile from them. They are not for sale. They are scribblings on > > cardboard to some people on this board, they are goldmines to some > > others on this board, but they are mementoes of MY childhood, not > > theirs. > > > > > > Also, considering Werner's post, wherein the new plan is > > concededly > > > residential and not for tourists (absolutely correct, and the > > point > > > most lost on people like Save Tillie, etc.), your concern for > > > attracting tourists is misplaced. Our concern is a year-round > > > economy supported by Monmouth County towns (a population larger > > and > > > wealthier than Boston). > > > > > And yet Boston has denied the Red Sox plans 5 years ago of tearing > > down Fenway Park & rebuilding a modern 60,000 baseball stadium. > What > > the heck are those Bostonians thinking??? They'd increase ratables > > by 50% just from shoving more people in their to watch the Red Sox > > lose. Just because we are larger & wealthier, doesn't necessarily > > make us smarter. History will judge that. > > > > > The Pony can stay or go and it won't make a bit of difference to > > the > > > redevelopment of Asbury Park. > > > > > > > I disagree about the bit of difference. The Pony staying means the > > difference between the other businesses surviving or ridiculously > > thriving. You grew up in Asbury Park, so you probably know who > > Arthur Pryor was. I have no freaking clue who he is, and if you > told > > me he was Richard's dad, I'd believe you. You take away that > > bandshell, and Arthur Pryor fades away with the memories of the > > Greatest Generation & Trivial Pursuit players. > > > > I remember the day an Asbury Park Historian (who certifies these > > people anyways?) who also runs a law practice told me the story of > > the Mayfair being torn down. I think the Mayfair would have an > > easier job of seperating this tourist from his suburban cash than > an > > antique shop or an ethnic restaurant. > > > > You take away the Pony, and my kids (who in all likelihood will > > think Bruce is a dork just because their dad listens to him) have > > absolutely no reason to visit Asbury Park instead of Bradley Beach > > in 20 years. There's no hope of any amusements aside from an > arcade, > > so the City has already lost the under 16 crowd. This > Redevelopment > > is sacrifiicing Asbury's future revenue streams in return for a > > quick fix solution to make the town not appear empty. > > > > > There I said it. The Pony doesn't matter. Ok, please make a > > single > > > file line to beat me up. Don't all pile on at once. > > > > It's called an opinion, and personally I respect it, even if I > > disagree with it. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. 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