Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-06-01 Thread pnielsen
Timothy Stockman;206066 Wrote: > One major issue is: just what are you expecting to see? Good point! That's obviously what totally blinded me. Since the Transporter is an all-digital device, my mind was all set on seeing a dB scale ending in 0dB, and that's what I was seeing in my mind even thou

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-31 Thread Timothy Stockman
As has been pointed out, there are many conflicting standards for audio metering. One major issue is: just what are you expecting to see? Do you want an indication of loudness (maybe some type of "average" level) or are you interested in peaks? Or maybe some (hopefully useful) combination or pe

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-31 Thread James_B
Vintage Cdc3500 Stereo Cassette Deck from 1976... for illustrations purposes really but i might consider a trade for your transporter.. ;) +---+ |Filename: Classic VU.JPG | |Download: http:/

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-31 Thread pnielsen
Ron, Thanks for doing that test... The meters are obviously using a weighed value of some sort. Anyway, what it's doing is irrelevant. It LOOKS good, and since the unit is VUs it's perfectly okay. (I must have had a total brain fart or someting when I started the thread in the belief that it wa

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-31 Thread Ron F .
pnielsen, I generated some 1 kHz tones using Audacity at various levels and exported them as FLAC files (44.1kHz-16bit.) Files were then streamed to Soft Squeeze, results: 0.1 full scale resulted in -9 VU 0.2 full scale resulted in -6 VU 0.4 full scale resulted in -2 VU 0.5 full scale result

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-31 Thread pnielsen
Ron F.;205811 Wrote: > I could be incorrect, but I believe that 0 VU represents -20 dBFS or 20 > dB below full scale. Ron, you nailed it! That's exactly what it is. The VU scale is not a dB scale. It looks like the transporter may be using 0dB = -10dBFS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_le

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-31 Thread Ron F .
I will do an experiment with some files created in Audacity, and see what 0 VU comes out to be on the SB3... -Ron -- Ron F. *Squeezebox setup:* wireless SB3 -> CI Audio VDA.2 DAC + VAC.1 PSU *Main rig:* NAD 7600 + NAD 2600A -> Phase Tech PC-6.5 speakers *Headphone rig:* Headroom Max -> Sennhe

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-31 Thread Eric Seaberg
I was going to respond, but cliveb nailed it... the VU meter relates to output voltage of the attached machine where 0VU = +4dBm @ 600-ohms (.775 volts). Most PRO analog gear was capable of producing an output of +24dBm before clipping, giving you 20dB of theoretical headroom. This is, pretty mu

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-31 Thread James_B
Cuthbert;205908 Wrote: > Absolutely agree. Looks good and makes no difference to the sound. (as > far as I'm concerned.) :) Ditto. They are great as they are! -- James_B James_B's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/m

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-31 Thread Cuthbert
blessingx;205802 Wrote: > Please don't fix every analog 'problem' in the digital world. ;) Absolutely agree. Looks good and makes no difference to the sound. (as far as I'm concerned.) :) -- Cuthbert Cuthbert's Profile:

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-31 Thread adamslim
The volume goes up to 11 - how wouldn't the VU go above 0dB? Otherwise it wouldn't go as LOUD -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists'

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-31 Thread cliveb
pnielsen;205806 Wrote: > No. That's not right. > > In an old analog device, 0dB usually represents a threshold value of > some sort. Usually this value is set for the level when distortion > reaches a certain treshold value. Thus, in analog electronics 0dB does > not represent the maximum possib

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-30 Thread Ron F .
I could be incorrect, but I believe that 0 VU represents -20 dBFS or 20 dB below full scale. A digital sample of sixteen 1s would be full scale. I think 20 dB below that is ... oh dear ... 00101000. VU is an average reading, so if a recording is holding at 0 VU, then it's RMS power is hold

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-30 Thread Pat Farrell
pnielsen wrote: > Pat Farrell;205800 Wrote: >> It is a retro look, and when you used analog VU meters, they were damped >> >> and would go over 0. > > No. That's not right. Sorry, yes it is. > In an old analog device, 0dB usually represents a threshold value of > some sort. Usually this value

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-30 Thread pnielsen
Pat Farrell;205800 Wrote: > It is a retro look, and when you used analog VU meters, they were damped > > and would go over 0. No. That's not right. In an old analog device, 0dB usually represents a threshold value of some sort. Usually this value is set for the level when distortion reaches a

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-30 Thread blessingx
Please don't fix every analog 'problem' in the digital world. ;) -- blessingx Squeezebox 3 + Lavry DA1Ø + Woo Audio 6 + Ultrasone 25ØØ / Sennheiser HD65Ø/58Ø/595 blessingx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.p

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-30 Thread SuperQ
pnielsen;205792 Wrote: > Hello, > Please fix... Current display makes no sense! > > Thanks, > Peter The VU meters are not for measurement. They are mostly for show. -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-30 Thread Pat Farrell
pnielsen wrote: > The VU meters are very nice, but WHY do they exceed 0dB? In a digital > world, 0dB is the maximum output possible. > > Is this a software design flaw (done by somebody used to the tape decks > of the 80's, or...?) It is a retro look, and when you used analog VU meters, they were

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do VU meters exceed 0dB? Programming error?

2007-05-30 Thread pnielsen
Hello, I'm not (yet) a Transporter owner, but I'm trying out Slimserver and Softsqueeze. The VU meters are very nice, but WHY do they exceed 0dB? In a digital world, 0dB is the maximum output possible. Is this a software design flaw (done by somebody used to the tape decks of the 80's, or...?)