Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-20 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Ralf Wildenhues wrote: Only if the source tree is read-only AND also the autotools ARE present, then I can see how you get a failure. That is my current situation, yes. Automake is present and the source tree is read-only. --rich

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-19 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Ralf Wildenhues wrote: What was your point again with respect to missing autotools? Can you now finally be bothered to bring forward a specific setup that goes wrong? This fails for me because $(srcdir)/Makefile.in is read-only. --rich

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-19 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Harlan Stenn wrote: And this situation is even more layered - I am using GNU AutoGen for one big project, and I do not want to require my other developers to install it. Therefore I check in my autogen-generated files and we use a 'bootstrap' script after doing a code checkout to make sure the t

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-19 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Ralf Wildenhues wrote: What you seem to be saying is that anything that doesn't work with automake is broken by definition. No. What I'm asking for is a step-by-step reproducible example of the breakage you are encountering, including the make implementation that was used, and all other de

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-19 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Harlan Stenn wrote: I'll say it again - I am not interested in a reminder, I am interested in being efficient at maintaining software packages. This means *shortening* the development cycle. Yes, this would seem to be the values set of automake. Shorten the developer cycle at the cost of th

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-19 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Harlan Stenn wrote: I really dislike this proposal as it stands. While I'm fine with a position that says "for normal users, don't have Makefile.in depend on Makefile.am", I *want* that rule as a package developer and even as a release engineer. I already have way too much stuff I have to remem

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-19 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Let me be very clear. The change I'm proposing is as follows. Instead of the current form of generated Makefile.in's, I'm proposing that the default generated Makefile.in's include a section like this: Makefile: Makefile.in configure etc. .PHONY: am_regen: (cd $(srcdir) && automake) #

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-19 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Benoit Sigoure wrote: Quoting "K. Richard Pixley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Bob Proulx wrote: If someone is trying to build from source control then they have assumed the role of a developer. No, I'm sorry, but that's not necessarily true. A developer of foo is not nece

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-19 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Ralf Wildenhues wrote: Hello Richard, * K. Richard Pixley wrote on Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 05:18:27AM CEST: AM_MAINTAINER_MODE is good to know about, thank you. But it doesn't really solve the problem for users. Now if generated makefiles could have those rules turned off using a co

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-18 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Bob Friesenhahn wrote: On Mon, 18 Jun 2007, K. Richard Pixley wrote: Bob Proulx wrote: Are we talking about one of your own projects? Or are we talking about other projects that you are trying to build? Projects that I'm trying to build. Hundreds of them. Projects that won't b

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-18 Thread K. Richard Pixley
use cases in mind). I will be solving this problem somehow. The real question is whether we can cooperate in such a way that we solve it once now and everyone can benefit, or whether I'm going to solve it today for this company, tomorrow for some other company, and next week for yet anoth

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-18 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Robert Collins wrote: On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 17:27 -0700, K. Richard Pixley wrote: My question today is... is there any hope of bringing automake generated Makefiles back into line with the GNU coding standards so that these applications will work once again? Use AM_MAINTAINER_MODE

Re: Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-18 Thread K. Richard Pixley
Bob Proulx wrote: K. Richard Pixley wrote: I notice that automake is currently generating Makefiles that violate the gnu coding conventions. Hmm... I don't think that automake violates the standards. In the normal case it is not required to have automake installed. Someone w

Automake violations of the gnu coding conventions

2007-06-18 Thread K. Richard Pixley
I notice that automake is currently generating Makefiles that violate the gnu coding conventions. Specifically, it's generating rules for rebuilding "Makefile" from "Makefile.in" and "Makefile.in" from "Makefile.am" which requires automake. And yet the gnu coding standards specify: The |