Re: [Ayatana] Reducing Resistance to Change

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 17:22 -0400, Martin Owens wrote: > > A few of my community circles react to Design Team news with a *sigh* > and "Oh god what have they done now". The teams reputation is low and > it's over shadowing the really great work that's going on. How can I > convince people to trust

Re: [Ayatana] Reducing Resistance to Change

On 27 April 2010 16:22, Martin Owens wrote: > Some of that good dialectic goes on here in this mailing list, but > that's not communicated much outside where it would do good to calm > people. I believe some of the problems stem from language of outside > publishings, e.g: "We've made this choice b

Re: [Ayatana] Answers.launchpad.net alias/redirect to questions.launchpad.net?

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Andrew SB wrote: > Redirecting from the Ayatana List... [snip] >> Every once in a while, I have this brain hiccup where I type in the >> URL 'questions.launchpad.net' instead of 'answers.launchpad.net'. I >> was wondering if this might be a common error, and whet

[Ayatana] Answers.launchpad.net alias/redirect to questions.launchpad.net?

Hi, Sorry if this is OT here... Every once in a while, I have this brain hiccup where I type in the URL 'questions.launchpad.net' instead of 'answers.launchpad.net'. I was wondering if this might be a common error, and whether it'd be worth the LP admins' time to add a DNS alias, or a redirect pag

Re: [Ayatana] Finger Swipe Gadgets

On Wednesday 28,April,2010 07:05 AM, Benjamin Humphrey wrote: > It would be kickass if you could grin at your computer to make it unlock. It would be really funny to watch someone pulling different variants of a face at the computer, failing and retrying due to shortcomings in the face recognition

Re: [Ayatana] Panel menu in 10.10 Netbook UI

I would assume that the window controls won't exist in this scenario... Am I correct in assuming that menus will only go into the top panel if the window is maximized, such that its window controls are hidden by maximus? On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 17:07, Benjamin Humphrey wrote: > Luke, I believe t

Re: [Ayatana] Panel menu in 10.10 Netbook UI

Luke, I believe the idea is to have the menu, window controls and title actually in the top panel itself, not in windows. On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Luke Benstead wrote: > On 27 April 2010 17:24, Jeremy Nickurak wrote: > > What about windows with long titles? Web browsers ofter put the ti

Re: [Ayatana] Finger Swipe Gadgets

It would be kickass if you could grin at your computer to make it unlock. On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 7:45 AM, Alex Lourie wrote: > That is what I would call the fail-safe mechanism, and yet, I'd hope it > would still work > > Alex. > > > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Shane Fagan < > shanepatric

Re: [Ayatana] Reducing Resistance to Change

+1 Martin, well said. Benjamin (Sent from my Android, please ignore any typos!) On 28/04/2010 9:23 AM, "Martin Owens" wrote: Hello, This is an invitation to all designers who will be at UDS-M soon to talk about reducing the resistance in the community to Ayatana developments and directions. So

Re: [Ayatana] Panel menu in 10.10 Netbook UI

On 27 April 2010 17:24, Jeremy Nickurak wrote: > What about windows with long titles? Web browsers ofter put the title of the > page you're viewing in the window title, so it's HUGE. Not much extra room, > if any, in that case. > Maybe a cut-off title with ... and the full thing in a tooltip? > Ma

[Ayatana] Reducing Resistance to Change

Hello, This is an invitation to all designers who will be at UDS-M soon to talk about reducing the resistance in the community to Ayatana developments and directions. So I want to kick off a discussion here and then carry it on at UDS: We've seen in the wider community resistance for a number of

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On 27/04/10 19:45, Jan Claeys wrote: > A simple checkbox in the preferences "[X] Start up with the main > window hidden" should fix that use case. I don't see a need why it > should remember the last state for that or any other use case (there > might be some, of course). Ouch, there goes a knuckl

Re: [Ayatana] Finger Swipe Gadgets

That is what I would call the fail-safe mechanism, and yet, I'd hope it would still work Alex. On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Shane Fagan wrote: > I presume that you can always use your password. > > -fagan > On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 22:26 +0300, Alex Lourie wrote: > > So if the webcam stops wor

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

> Something that would be useful is an "animation" that makes it clear > that the closed window belongs to a background-application that will > give feedback in the indicator area. You have a point there. For both Compiz and Metacity (or X itself), there is no difference between closing and quitt

Re: [Ayatana] Five second test

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 17:52 +0200, Johan Euphrosine wrote: > I was wondering if Ubuntu design team would consider using this kind > of tools to crowdsource user interface testing: > > http://fivesecondtest.com/ That's pretty neat actually. Very simple idea. We need to build that in to Launchpad

Re: [Ayatana] Finger Swipe Gadgets

I presume that you can always use your password. -fagan On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 22:26 +0300, Alex Lourie wrote: > So if the webcam stops working for some reason, would the machine > fail-safe to another login method? > > I'd be genuinely freaked if I couldn't login due to a broken > camera :-) >

Re: [Ayatana] Finger Swipe Gadgets

So if the webcam stops working for some reason, would the machine fail-safe to another login method? I'd be genuinely freaked if I couldn't login due to a broken camera :-) Alex. On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Shane Fagan wrote: > I wouldnt think it would be that hard to get it working with

Re: [Ayatana] Finger Swipe Gadgets

I wouldnt think it would be that hard to get it working with the integrated web cam. If its done right it would be awesome. -fagan On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 14:56 -0400, Martin Owens wrote: > On Fri, 2010-04-23 at 09:56 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > Best we get those finger-swipe gadgets work

Re: [Ayatana] Finger Swipe Gadgets

On 27/04/10 19:56, Martin Owens wrote: > On Fri, 2010-04-23 at 09:56 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: >> Best we get those finger-swipe gadgets working, then :-) > > Have you not seen the face recognition pam where your username is your > face and your password is your face in different posses? >

Re: [Ayatana] Finger Swipe Gadgets

On Fri, 2010-04-23 at 09:56 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Best we get those finger-swipe gadgets working, then :-) Have you not seen the face recognition pam where your username is your face and your password is your face in different posses? I love the idea of pulling faces at the computer t

Re: [Ayatana] Skipping Multiple songs?

Op dinsdag 27-04-2010 om 14:43 uur [tijdzone +0530], schreef Vishnoo: > With the indicator applications menu and music player menu, I can skip > one song at a time. > > However , if i have to skip multiple songs , it is a bit tiring to open > the menu each time and to skip songs one by one. > The

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 20:45 +0200, Jan Claeys wrote: > Op dinsdag 27-04-2010 om 08:27 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Marc > Deslauriers: > > On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 22:10 +1000, Jonathan Matthew wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:17 PM, David Siegel > > > wrote: > > > > I witnessed this bug bitin

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

Op dinsdag 27-04-2010 om 08:27 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Marc Deslauriers: > On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 22:10 +1000, Jonathan Matthew wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:17 PM, David Siegel > > wrote: > > > I witnessed this bug biting users many times over the 11 hours of user > > > testing we con

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Jan Claeys wrote: > Op dinsdag 27-04-2010 om 12:57 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Shane > Fagan: >> > I think because these particular apps are designed to run in the >> > background and are used often when multitasking, we should keep the >> > close button minimiz

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 11:17 +0100, Shane Fagan wrote: > Just because other programs are doing it doesnt make the functionality > correct. Why cant the minimise button be the one that minimises to the > notification area? Its how its done with Windows media player from > what I remember too. But t

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

Op dinsdag 27-04-2010 om 12:57 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Shane Fagan: > > I think because these particular apps are designed to run in the > > background and are used often when multitasking, we should keep the > > close button minimizing to the notification area unless they > > specifically ch

Re: [Ayatana] Panel menu in 10.10 Netbook UI

On 27/04/10 17:00, Shane Fagan wrote: > Could we do something similar in the desktop edition? My screen doesnt > have the highest resolution and having 2 bars and the menu strip takes > up a lot of space. > You'll certainly be able to run it that way, if you want. signature.asc Description:

Re: [Ayatana] Panel menu in 10.10 Netbook UI

What about windows with long titles? Web browsers ofter put the title of the page you're viewing in the window title, so it's HUGE. Not much extra room, if any, in that case. Maybe a cut-off title with ... and the full thing in a tooltip? Maybe just not merging the menus into the panel if it's to

Re: [Ayatana] Panel menu in 10.10 Netbook UI

I also was thinking about something like this... I've seen a mockup once, in which the application menubar and the titlebar are merged, but both of them are constantly shown, which is not a problem IMO, because as we know, we have horizontal pixels. I have checked, and the applications with many me

Re: [Ayatana] Panel menu in 10.10 Netbook UI

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 16:49 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Hello folks > > I blogged today about a decision we've taken to adopt a single menu in > the panel, for the netbook interface. The blog is at > http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/359 and there will be some > additional commentary

Re: [Ayatana] Panel menu in 10.10 Netbook UI

This sounds very interesting! It could be nice to have it implemented as early as possible in the 10.10 testing period, to identify problems faster. Maybe it could be the default behavior in the desktop version as well, for the duration of the alphas, to make sure it undergoes as much testing as p

Re: [Ayatana] Panel menu in 10.10 Netbook UI

Hey Mark, Could we do something similar in the desktop edition? My screen doesnt have the highest resolution and having 2 bars and the menu strip takes up a lot of space. I know that Gnome shell is a single panel (for the moment anyway) but can we do a global menu for gnome shell as well? (and I

Re: [Ayatana] Panel menu in 10.10 Netbook UI

Good idea for the netbook edition Mark. Let the imminent Mac OS X comparisons begin, however. =S Benjamin On 28/04/2010 3:49 AM, "Mark Shuttleworth" wrote: Hello folks I blogged today about a decision we've taken to adopt a single menu in the panel, for the netbook interface. The blog is at ht

[Ayatana] Five second test

Hi, I was wondering if Ubuntu design team would consider using this kind of tools to crowdsource user interface testing: http://fivesecondtest.com/ -- Johan Euphrosine (proppy) Development and services around Free Software http://www.aminche.com/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature _

[Ayatana] Panel menu in 10.10 Netbook UI

Hello folks I blogged today about a decision we've taken to adopt a single menu in the panel, for the netbook interface. The blog is at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/359 and there will be some additional commentary from MPT and others on design.canonical.com in due course. The rational

Re: [Ayatana] Skipping Multiple songs?

On Tuesday 27,April,2010 05:13 PM, Vishnoo wrote: > Hi, > With the indicator applications menu and music player menu, I can skip > one song at a time. > > However , if i have to skip multiple songs , it is a bit tiring to open > the menu each time and to skip songs one by one. > The only other op

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 14:27, Marc Deslauriers wrote: > Although I don't do it myself, some people may choose to have rhythmbox > open automatically with their session by using the options in > System/Preferences/Startup Applications/Options. When this is done, it > could be expected behaviour to

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 22:10 +1000, Jonathan Matthew wrote: > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:17 PM, David Siegel > wrote: > > I witnessed this bug biting users many times over the 11 hours of user > > testing we conducted over the past couple weeks. User opens > > Rhythmbox... and it appears as if nothi

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 18:08 +0530, Vishnoo wrote: > On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 23:51 +1200, Benjamin Humphrey wrote: > > I don't like the idea of having an extra button only for apps that > > close to the notification area, if that's what you mean. > > > Nope.. no extra buttons. > I meant , instead o

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 23:51 +1200, Benjamin Humphrey wrote: > I don't like the idea of having an extra button only for apps that > close to the notification area, if that's what you mean. Nope.. no extra buttons. I meant , instead of the red close , a different button is used. [replacing it] Us

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

People yell at us no matter what we do :) On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Jonathan Matthew wrote: > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:17 PM, David Siegel > wrote: > > I witnessed this bug biting users many times over the 11 hours of user > > testing we conducted over the past couple weeks. User opens

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 22:12, Ted Gould wrote: > Whether or not it's important to UI design is independent to whether it > is related to removing the notification area.  For instance, the update > manager icon could as easily be an app indicator or notification area > icon. > > So, I think what D

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

Jonathan, I'm sorry -- I didn't mean to quote you specifically, and I used the term "upstream" very loosely. Let's discuss the data we collected during user testing, and figure out what's best for Rhythmbox users. Once you're convinced what behavior is best, then all the yelling in the world won't

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

If you're not actively using Rhythmbox but would like to continue listening to music, just minimize it normally. It's silly to have a second place to minimize to, because this creates additional mental burden for users who would then need to ask "did I minimize it to the window list, or to the litt

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 22:12, Ted Gould wrote: > Whether or not it's important to UI design is independent to whether it > is related to removing the notification area.  For instance, the update > manager icon could as easily be an app indicator or notification area > icon. > > So, I think what D

Re: [Ayatana] Skipping Multiple songs?

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 11:41, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 14:43 +0530, Vishnoo wrote: >> With the indicator applications menu and music player menu, I can skip >> one song at a time. errm did we have any mockups of this already? i wouldn't remember where.. are you guys referrin

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:17 PM, David Siegel wrote: > I witnessed this bug biting users many times over the 11 hours of user > testing we conducted over the past couple weeks. User opens > Rhythmbox... and it appears as if nothing has happened. Empathy > sometimes has the same problem. Both of th

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 23:43 +1200, Benjamin Humphrey wrote: > I agree with David. > > > Fix the bug with Rhythmbox opening in the last state, and let's do > that very soon. It's been around for two years, which is far too long. > > > I don't agree that minimize should minimize to the notificati

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

I don't like the idea of having an extra button only for apps that close to the notification area, if that's what you mean. On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Vishnoo wrote: > On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 12:17 +0100, David Siegel wrote: > > I witnessed this bug biting users many times over the 11 hours

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

I agree with David. Fix the bug with Rhythmbox opening in the last state, and let's do that very soon. It's been around for two years, which is far too long. I don't agree that minimize should minimize to the notification area, and close should close the program for those particular applications.

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 12:17 +0100, David Siegel wrote: > I witnessed this bug biting users many times over the 11 hours of user > testing we conducted over the past couple weeks. User opens > Rhythmbox... and it appears as if nothing has happened. Empathy > sometimes has the same problem. Both of t

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

H would it be crazy if I propose making a different button for minimising to the notification area? Its just if the close button means close the program in most users mind and the minimise button means leaving the window open but hiding it away, then what should the new user expect to minimise

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

I witnessed this bug biting users many times over the 11 hours of user testing we conducted over the past couple weeks. User opens Rhythmbox... and it appears as if nothing has happened. Empathy sometimes has the same problem. Both of these issues have been reported as paper cuts for a while, but t

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

> Just because other programs are doing it doesnt make the functionality > correct. Why cant the minimise button be the one that minimises to the > notification area? Its how its done with Windows media player from what > I remember too. But then you are replacing an unexpected functionality with

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 14:30 +0530, Vishnoo wrote: > On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 15:29 +1200, Benjamin Humphrey wrote: > > On the subject of Rhythmbox, currently when you start it, it will open > > to the last state - eg. in the notification area, or maximized, or > > just a window on some workspace. I do

Re: [Ayatana] Skipping Multiple songs?

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 14:43 +0530, Vishnoo wrote: > With the indicator applications menu and music player menu, I can skip > one song at a time. > > However , if i have to skip multiple songs , it is a bit tiring to open > the menu each time and to skip songs one by one. > The only other option t

Re: [Ayatana] Skipping Multiple songs?

You can already spacebar for next/previous or any other option without closing the menu though there is no clicker option for doing that. On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Vishnoo wrote: > Hi, > With the indicator applications menu and music player menu, I can skip > one song at a time. > > Howev

[Ayatana] Skipping Multiple songs?

Hi, With the indicator applications menu and music player menu, I can skip one song at a time. However , if i have to skip multiple songs , it is a bit tiring to open the menu each time and to skip songs one by one. The only other option to do it faster is to bring up the player window. Do other

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 15:29 +1200, Benjamin Humphrey wrote: > On the subject of Rhythmbox, currently when you start it, it will open > to the last state - eg. in the notification area, or maximized, or > just a window on some workspace. I don't think it should do this. When > people open a program,

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

Mark, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/570565 Thanks :) On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > On 27/04/10 04:29, Benjamin Humphrey wrote: > > > > On the subject of Rhythmbox, currently

Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

On 27/04/10 04:29, Benjamin Humphrey wrote: > > On the subject of Rhythmbox, currently when you start it, it will open > to the last state - eg. in the notification area, or maximized, or > just a window on some workspace. I don't think it should do this. When > people open a program, they expect t