As I wrote in http://launchpad.net/bugs/370248: For several years
Web browsers have insisted on showing the address bar, or the status
bar, or both, in any popup window as a way of distinguishing it from
native application windows. Can you provide a demo which avoids this
security measure?
Hello Ivanka, thanks for sharing yours and the design team thoughts on
this. I have some questions that I'm hoping you could answer.
I think Fitt's law is being cited not because of speed, but because of
accidental clicking, something that can occur regardless if the user is
in a rush or not.
The spectrum of attention-grabbiness, if you want to think of it that
way, is:
- outline
- dimmed
- full mono
- green
- orange
- red
Orange does not seem like a good idea, as it's very close to red.
In my opinion, perhaps better (although not perfect) choices would be
yellow
For the moment, there are no tooltips on app indicators or system
indicators. They have also been removed from window controls. Tooltips
here had historically been poorly written and inconsistently used, we've
removed them to see whether we can address the need for information
through
Dimmed is an interesting option. We have been testing the idea of
using dimmed-to-full to indicate you've got messages, but it looks
like messages are important enough that we should go further and use a
colour. Since it's positive, rather than an alarm or warning, green
would be appropriate
...
Paulo
Obs: sorry for the rant coming out of frustration with this and other
issues in this list.
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Conscious User consciousu...@aol.com
wrote:
Paulo, I personally agree with you but, from Mark's response on the
bug report, it seems
Dani, though I agree that consistency is important, you should keep in
mind that the two concepts involved here are semantically different. In
the messaging menu the arrow means running while in the me menu the
point means selected.
The most important difference between the two is that *more
Le mercredi 31 mars 2010 à 12:31 -0400, Alex Launi a écrit :
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Conscious User
consciousu...@aol.com wrote:
The problem is that everything you said above does not apply
to
anything other than IM, at least not for the moment. There's
There should be a rationale and guidance for the use of the various
colours. For example, red is clearly an alert colour, as is orange. When
would one use red and when orange? Both indicate a caution or warning.
Green indicates something that one should be aware of that is NOT a
warning or
Hello all,
There was something I was wondering today and would like
to know your opinions on the matter. Currently, there
seems to be no implementation or even specification for
dismissing messages through the messaging menu. By
dismissing I mean:
- Chat: someone has sent you a message but you
Do all mouse [mice ;)] have a middle-click button.
AFAIK , not all have them.
Few have a hidden middle-click using the scroll-wheel press as a
middle-click. [not everyone uses this though]
What about laptops having touchpads, they dont have middle-clicks? [Some
users do configure the
We're already stretching that slightly with the inclusion of things like
sliders and volume scrolling, but we're (hopefully!) not stretching too
far away from the concept of a menu. But we we should really exercise
restraint here and not doing crazy stuff just because we can. Just
I've gave the buttons a chance ever since they were proposed.
My overall conclusion is that it is not difficult to get used
to with respect to forgetting the old habits. After a couple
of days I was already going always to the left side by instinct.
But I also concluded, from actual incidents,
Yes, as the Windows UX guidelines say: Left single-click should
Display whatever users most likely want to see, while Right-click
should Display the context menu, with the default command in bold.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511448(v=MSDN.10).aspx#interaction
But even though
fwiw, I agree with some of what you said about things not looking like
menus, and in fact early on I was the person on the DX team expressing
that I felt we may be breaking the concept of menus (although everyone
here seems to be focused on what menus look like in other UIs as a
definition
Le mercredi 14 avril 2010 à 08:32 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth a écrit :
As such, we can't lightly do an experiment. But we can discuss it in
more details here, and if there's good reason to do it, plan for it in
10.10 or 11.04.
MPT?
Sorry for bumping, but I feel the original discussion about
bluetooth should indicate its activity in BT tray icon, since
bluetooth enabled devices usually consume extra power if it's on. also
does bluetooth make a machine discoverable within a radius of
sometimes up to 20m. we want to be aware of this. blue as informative
color would be clearly the
Your feedback is welcome on this mailing list (or, if you prefer, on
either of those Web pages). Does the plan make sense? Or are we
completely off our rocker? Is there anything we've missed? Do you have
suggestions on how we can make the transition smoother?
As a regular reader of Ubuntu
1) Communicating the goals and current status to end users. The amount
of people who think the messaging menu is only a launcher, for
example, is overwhelming. And I cannot really blame them in those
cases. What should I say? Well, it's obvious if you were subscribed
in the Ayatana list, or
if the goal is to design an informative download indicator menu, i
seriously would want to consider listing *all* download bandwidth
relevant processes the user called himself - including update
manager's package downloads..
I think it makes more sense to restrict the usage of a download
While I like the basic concept, there are going to be severe limits.
First off, what about vertical desktops? I have a 2x 2 setup, and its
worked wonders for me for keeping organized. I personally can't stand
the stick em all in the line organization.
Can you please elaborate more on how
I think we should coordinate this with Gnome, and ask them whether
they're going to do anything with that space in Gnome Shell. It would
be stupid to design something awesome, then realise that Shell uses
that space for a essential part of its functionality.
From the current state, it seems
I also run maximus to eliminate the space-wasting titlebar.
Test-driving GNOME Shell, I am waiting for a (native) global menu. At
the moment, I am torn between the two approaches to use the space in
the titlebar: window list or menu. It may be best to use only icons
for the windows (like
That's true, we haven't done as good a job of communication in the past
as we could have. But we're working on improving it. For this issue
yesterday there were posts on design.canonical.com,
markshuttleworth.com, this mailing list, Twitter, and Identica.
And I thank you and Mark for those,
I think we need to focus a bit more on the fundamental reasons why we
use workspaces. I for one often switch to a new workspace because i
don't want to see any of what i was working on before. I don't want
tabs from before, apps from before, any single thing, just a clean,
open, new desktop.
Hrm. whaaat..
Design Communication is essential for the developer community, and for
the designers to layout the future plans , to co-ordinate the design
implementation. This part is improving and the design team's blog is the
start of such improvements.
This should not be of concern for
And you think malware couldn't put up a systray icon tricking you into
thinking you have updates? You think you would be able to tell the
difference? The panel icon is just as fakeable as the popup.
Disagree. Because update-manager does not require gksudo, there is no
screen dimming or
Disagree. Because update-manager does not require gksudo, there is no
screen dimming or anything else that indicates in an obvious manner
that it is an actual update window and not a popup coming from the
browser.
(I'm not talking about popup in the browser window sense, I'm talking
about
Well the Shell guys still arent convinced about using Zeitgeist yet but
tracker and Zeitgeist would be very powerful for FAYT. Using Zeitgeist
you could filter the results of searches going by their regular activity
for instance which would make the search a lot more tailored to the
user.
I
Well then why not cater for both users, the point and clickers and the
searchers? It makes sense to do both in my opinion.
Agreed, I certainly do not exclude this option. :)
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Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to :
Just because other programs are doing it doesnt make the functionality
correct. Why cant the minimise button be the one that minimises to the
notification area? Its how its done with Windows media player from what
I remember too.
But then you are replacing an unexpected functionality with
Something that would be useful is an animation that makes it clear
that the closed window belongs to a background-application that will
give feedback in the indicator area.
You have a point there. For both Compiz and Metacity (or X itself),
there is no difference between closing and quitting
I'm more and more intrigued by the idea of using Windicators (such as
maybe an eye icon) as a means of hiding a window (where
applicable) but continuing the current operation from background
process and being accessible by an indicator applet, such as the file
transfer applet as you're
Le mercredi 12 mai 2010 à 15:00 +0200, Jan-Christoph Borchardt a écrit :
What about that? Are there any plans already to default to single
click for opening files and folders in Ubuntu?
It is way more intuitive to open with just a single click and have the
modifier for the less frequent
Is this true? I've never seen this happen. I just removed the
application indicator applet from my panel, and none of the elements
in it moved to the notification area.
I WOULD count this as a major win, but I've never heard about it
before
Did you restart the applications
You are completely right, there is a semantic difference. But I wonder
if (have hard times believing) that this is recognizable by or even
relevant to users.
In my opinion, this is recognizable whenever the user does to files
or folders something he does not do to launchers, like deleting or
like somebody said on the xdg list... exposing hierarchical
filesystems in user space is the actual problem.
in German we would now say jetzt haben wir den salat, meaning we are
now exposed to increased communication entropy within the UI ;)
honestly, please name the use cases for file
You would get rid of the pesky timing issue, but introduce state and
still require 2 clicks for the most common action (if opening is not the
most common action on files or folders, I would suggest something is
going wrong).
I have nothing against making the common action easy. The problem
note: checkbox appears on mouse-over.
this behaviour works best, if all thumbs are of the same size and
muscle memory is honored by the checkbox position.
for those who want to test this behaviour live: try Dolphin, it's just
a command away:
$sudo apt-get install dolphin
Add a handle
What is the primary tool that the system provides to users to look at
their files? It may not be supposed to do it, but that does not matter
because it is done anyway.
I agree that a compromise with current ways should be reached, but
dismissing the entire matter because it is done anyway is
Le lundi 17 mai 2010 à 09:23 -0700, Tyler Brainerd a écrit :
Ok. I made a start actually through that original blog post with one
dev, so I'll follow up there as well. Something he mentioned was that
they don't really want to work on ubuntu only fixes, but just on what
is useful elsewhere and
Le mardi 18 mai 2010 à 10:00 -0600, Jeremy Nickurak a écrit :
I for one have sort of checked out of the evolution design
conversation, because Evolution's poor IMAP performance makes it
largely unusable with large IMAP folders, especially Gmail ones with
thousands upon thousands of emails.
Le mardi 18 mai 2010 à 10:50 -0600, Jeremy Nickurak a écrit :
AFAIK, only ubuntu's branches of these environments have messaging
menu support. Have they seen any uptake upstream? Are there upstream
applications using the messaging menu?
I think Ted is referring to supporting the menu itself.
Le mardi 18 mai 2010 à 22:06 +0200, Frederik Nnaji a écrit :
Yes, you're right, we don't need the software suite Evolution anymore.
I'm interested to know how many people in this list agree with the
above statement, or at least consider it a possibility open for
discussion, before effectively
Le mardi 18 mai 2010 à 14:02 -0700, Tyler Brainerd a écrit :
i've actually been writing about evolution a lot on blog posts, and
how frustrating it is. I'd love to see it gone, as its slow with
multiple IMAP accounts, gives me false positives on my hotmail
accounts and downloads hundreds of
I think the answer to online vs local should be: both. You shouldn't
have to mess around with stuff in the browser on your own machine, but
you should be able to access your email and data everywhere.
Many people I know have an opposite attitude to what you stated above:
they see using the
I want to give a +1 on single click. When this thread started I was
hugely skeptical of the idea and dismissed it as absolute crap, but I
decided to give the entire thread a read through and my mind was
changed. I tested out single click on my machine, and it's pretty
good. It needs
Yes I know. But if I receive annoying messages from a place, I would
stop them from the same place. This is the main point.
I would control all messaging function from a menu, not two or more.
Going offline or online is part of messaging.
Part of messagING, as in using an instant messenger,
Part of messagING, as in using an instant messenger, but not
part of messagES, as in an usual action when sending or
receiving messages. The Message Menu deals with messagES.
The name is Messaging Menu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/
So I think you partly misunderstood its
Hi,
For the upcoming Netbook Global Menu, I was wondering what is
the planned behavior for non-supported applications (which
will inevitably exist, for example I'm supposing it won't
support legacy Qt3 or Gtk1 applications... and is Java Swing
support planned?).
In fact, I pretty much doubt
Le lundi 24 mai 2010 à 13:02 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth a écrit :
On 24/05/10 10:55, Conscious User wrote:
For the upcoming Netbook Global Menu, I was wondering what is
the planned behavior for non-supported applications (which
will inevitably exist, for example I'm supposing it won't
Le lundi 24 mai 2010 à 17:29 +0200, Sense Hofstede a écrit :
Hello,
I would like to ask for some feedback regarding bug
https://launchpad.net/bugs/495403, which was reported in December
2009 and is still pending as a papercut. The reported issue is that it
is possible for windows to steal
Le mardi 25 mai 2010 à 18:30 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas a écrit :
Absolutely, this is something we can and should fix in Maverick. We plan
to be selling one or two bits of commercial software in 10.10, and for
well-known legal reasons, DVD playback is likely to be one of those.
But what
The problem with DVDs compared to MP3s is that they require paying for
DVD playback and for MP3s you get 100 free licences so unless you are
going for a huge deployment your not braking any laws.
So DVD playback is pay per licence but MP3 is 100 free so its fine in
most cases.
I was
I have a bone to pick with the update system in Ubuntu. It hasnt changed
since I started using Ubuntu (Gutsy).
For one I dont think we should get asked our password to check for
updates. (Thats a big one for me). I dont even think by default the user
should have to check at all. I think it
Indicator Session:
I brought this up in an earlier thread, but was drowned out by the
thread about single-click folders. If the left hand side of the
screen is for starting/quitting and the right is for status, then
shouldn't Indicator Session go on the left as well?
On a first impulse, I
I've proposed a solution (from a user experience point of view) that
prevents focus-stealing while also keeping window-opening predictable:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/67476/comments/16
2. When a new window appears, it should appear immediately behind the
Le jeudi 27 mai 2010 à 15:59 +0200, dani planas armangue a écrit :
much is this talking about the windicators but little or nothing about
the replacement of a vital part as the status bar. This mcokup shows a
banshee redesign proposed by me and shows the notifications of the
window (similar
One of favourite horrible things: choosing to show a window via an
indicator applet, like Empathy, or Rhythmbox, or Transmission,
sometimes causes it to appear below the stack of windows. Then I can
either reach to the window list applet (which I am opposed to for
moral reasons), or I can
I just want to point
out that the jam windicator would not only show jamming, but make the
process specific section of gnome-system-manager irrelevant.
I'm peeking at the gnome-system-manager now. About 60-70 percent
of the process specific section is taken by applications *without
windows*,
although I prefer the old version because the gradient is interesting (as a
pill) and drew attention to the user,
many of you would like to see a more compact version and flat. here it is:
Le vendredi 28 mai 2010 à 16:50 +0200, dani planas armangue a écrit :
El vie, 28-05-2010 a las 10:33 -0400, Alex Launi escribió:
The indicator should probably convey the cumulative progress so you
can just flick a glance in the corner and get an idea of the progress
without having to click
Le vendredi 28 mai 2010 à 10:33 -0400, Alex Launi a écrit :
The indicator should probably convey the cumulative progress so you
can just flick a glance in the corner and get an idea of the progress
without having to click or even move the mouse.
Suggestion: a circle that begins as an outline
The indicator should probably convey the cumulative progress so you
can just flick a glance in the corner and get an idea of the progress
without having to click or even move the mouse.
that you suggest would be totally against the design of indicators and
thus would be totally
Hi all,
I am aware that several improvements will be made to the Me Menu
for Maverick in order to complete what the specification requires.
After some time actually using the Me Menu in Lucid, though, one
thing is bothering me with respect to the specification itself:
the lack of any kind of
Le jeudi 03 juin 2010 à 19:05 -0600, Jeremy Nickurak a écrit :
The one thing it suggests to me immediately is that the notification
area isn't going anywhere anytime soon, in the world outside Ubuntu.
I know the idea of removing the notification area entirely is in the
works for Ubuntu, but
Hey all,
I want to finally write something I've meant to write for a long time.
First off, here is some context, in the form of recent events:
Sense Hofstede mentions that NotifyOSD has barely been touched in
the latest Ubuntu iterations:
http://twitter.com/qense/status/14779713532
Matthew
Really well said :)
Thank you. :)
One issue I have is NotifyOSD _feels_ done, but indeed the project
does not meet the design. If I look under Blueprints for notify-osd on
Launchpad[1], I see one very general task from core developers, and
three from frustrated users that conflict with the
On your critique: Notify-OSD is not done, but it's broadly there. The
API's are basically stable, and we would gladly accept patches that
bring it into full compliance with the specification.
Mark, please correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that the DX
team considers the current partial
The fact that the community could do these things by themselves is a
valid point indeed. I agree with it. However, the fact that you would
love to see patches from the community is not very clear. If I feel
the community correctly I think that many people seem to assume that
most of the work
Hi,
I would like to hear your opinions on this matter.
Gwibber 2.30 in Lucid adds user-specific entries to the
Messaging Menu when a new broadcast is received. When
you click on any of those entries, the Gwibber window
simply pops up, and nothing specific to the broadcast
whose indicator you
I'm not sure if it survived to the current spec, but we said we wanted a
hard limit (around 7) of entries per app. The indicator would refuse to
display more, and have some way to tell the app which ones it was
dropping. That's to stop flooding.
My concern was less about flooding and more
Le mercredi 09 juin 2010 à 17:44 +0200, dani planas armangue a écrit :
I've recently been looking at changes in the art of ubuntu (light themes
and new icons) and I think you are doing things wrong.
topics you are only basing the color palette rather than usability:
-colors to
I have seen this movie before, and its original title was
the issues with moving window buttons to the left.
Back when the left-sided buttons were introduced in the
Lucid cycle, I'd feel a lot more confortable if someone
had stepped in and said we made usability studies and
are confident that
Le mercredi 09 juin 2010 à 23:50 +0200, dani planas armangue a écrit :
ok, I created a small image that ilillustrates some of my arguments. it
is true that these are bugs that must be corrected, but I think there is
much discusion on the general theme design,
first need think, then do.
this is not the default theme that comes in lucid, which is working to
Maverick Merkat
https://launchpad.net/~dashua/+archive/light-themes
You should have made more clear from the beginning.
You are taking a wrong approach. For something that
is so obviously a *work in progress*, you
I know perfectly well that is temporary, is precisely why now is the
time to decide and talk.
as I said before you have to think first and then do, seeing how little
has been done in progress, I think missing discuss issues generated by
design.
this is what ayatana list is destined to
And, for both cases, the same question remains: what
should happen when you click on the indicator? This
is particularly hairy when you consider that the
user can have multiple streams being shown, and
there might be intersections among those streams
(ex: one stream for Twitter, other
But try something different. Try bringing up the normal Gwibber window,
with the other messages dimmed and that message not dimmed. Or the
normal Gwibber window scrolled to the message in question.
The dimming idea is interesting and could be applied to multiple
streams if at least one of
A massive portion of Ubuntu users use Wine or Java apps to some
degree. If we are trying to improve usability, how would relegating
non-application-indicator-conforming apps to floating windows improve
a user's experience compared to the current situation of having the
(empty most of the
How about a middle-ground compromise? Not using a full blown
window,
but putting the Wine tray icons inside an indicator menu.
Horrible mockup attached for illustration.
I thought about that, but AFAIK you can't have right clicking
Plus, with this mockup, you need an inidicator icon/menu for each
class of application that might put things in the notification area?
No. Just for the corner cases that cannot use libappindicator and
never will, like Wine and Java. Are there any other besides those
two?
All other classes of
I had filed a bug report on this issue:
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-applet/+bug/519553
I, too, have seen the negative effects of it at this point. It hasn't
been as pronounced as my original doomsday prediction, but it is
troubling.
To be honest I'm not
Kristoffer, calm down.
This is a brainstorm phase. None of the ideas proposed so far were
proposed in the most polished form possible, and there are many other
possible ideas to consider.
It is a little bit premature to conclude that keeping the notification
area exactly as it is for Wine apps
Now, moving on with the discussion itself:
Real shortly then: broken but not-yet-replaceable applications needs
two things from their indicators:
1. to be able to interact left/right click etc
2. to be able to be seen at all times
Instead of keeping the notification area *exactly* as it
With help from Ted Gould of the DX team, I have now (mostly) finished a
specification for windicators, with a few examples.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/Windicators
Nice work.
I don't know if you simply consider this too obvious, but I think there
should be a guideline recommending that
So far, these just seem to be menus, but with an optional icon instead
of text. So I have to ask: Why don't these belong in the regular
application menu bar?
guess
The windicators will also be able to use the icons
to show status, like panel indicators do.
/guess
We'll have to think about that :-)
Suggestions? Show the ones that most recently changed status?
I think that would introduce an unpredictability factor
that a lot of users wouldn't like.
Like it happens with the panel, I think we should consider
that even without the space problem there is
erm...Windicator Priorities?
I personally prefer not having to choose when there's excess.
I'm in favor of not allowing excess, period.
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Le samedi 19 juin 2010 à 07:30 -0700, David Hamm a écrit :
is it possible to wake from sleep and hibernate after a set time?
I don't know about Linux, but if I remember correctly
Windows 7 has such feature, so in terms of hardware
it seems possible.
When you're still upgrading the 'reboot required' notification is
already showing up in the session indicator at the right top of the
screen. This happens at least during release upgrades.
However, rebooting when the system is installing something is not the
best idea, so maybe the updater
A Twitter client is what I had in mind when I specified that the API
should let applications attach a count to the application item itself
(...)
If there are multiple accounts, then it might show a separate item for
each account:
(...)
It might also have separate items for @replies, direct
New panel applets were introduced to the newer versions of
Ubuntu. They improved the experience, because of their
features, but they also created some inconsistencies in the
GNOME Panel. If I remember correctly, it used to be that only
the Menu Bar
Le dimanche 27 juin 2010 à 21:59 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth a écrit :
On 23/06/10 14:37, Conscious User wrote:
If I understood correctly, James was suggesting *keeping* the panel
monochromatic
but giving colors to the MeMenu items. It makes sense: the colors in
this case
In due course, similar capabilities will be added. But for the moment
it's minimalist.
Here's me hoping that those similar capabilities will be implemented
in a neat d-bus service way which follows an app-independent protocol,
thus closing one of the most common complaints against the current
Hello,
So I've been thinking: a big problem with the Me Menu
comes from the fact that there is not an universally
recognized word for the act of microblogging. There
are tweets, dents, and Facebook made the rather
poor choice of using status updates (increasing
the confusion with IMs)
One thing
I think this does quite a lot for clearing up the purpose of that field.
But if you just look at that without prior/external knowledge, you still
would have to ask: Say where? To whom?
I agree. In fact, seconds after sending the mockup I wondered if it
wouldn't confuse users into thinking it
Yes, the broadcast field is certainly a learnable feature in the
MeMenu.
It will make publishing your current thought to the world very
comfortable, i'm sure.
But please somebody help me understand why i have a field to publicly
log my thoughts next to IM presence status settings, while i
I still think it's unclear what that text box does. I made a quick
mockup which adds some text to the text boxes, explaining what they
are supposed to do. This text goes away when the text box is
activated. The social networking text box says Post Twitter
message... when the Twitter icon is
Actually I was suggesting we *don't* use different icons for the
MeMenu title and menu items. While colour would be useful as it's used
elsewhere (eg Empathy client) it conflicts with the specific meaning
colour has in the menu bar. And using mixed monochromatic/colour icons
for the menu's
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