Hi Danny, Arto and all, This is an interesting subject indeed a will nd I agree with Arto in that putting borderlines between musical periods can be confusing. However, it's clear there was a particular style between French and German styles and perhaps it deserves its own name!
I had thought in 'second transition' but was not very happy with this idea, as I think they were two very different kinds of transition. I like Arto's proposal 'Austrian', as Austria was the place where this styles flourished, although it's not 'politically correct' in relation to some non-Austrian composers, such as Saint-Luc and Losy. However, if we can say Reusner was French, why not? On the other hand, 'Imperial' wouldn't be a historically accurate term, as long as I know, as the Austrian Empire officially started later, unless we're talking about the Holy Roman Empire, which comprised a much wider extension. 'Hapsburg' would be a confusing term as well, as we can call like this many other periods, such as the Spanish Renaissance... I look forward to read some other ideas and feedback, Nicolás > -----Mensaje original----- > De: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] En > nombre de wikla > Enviado el: viernes, 17 de septiembre de 2010 15:47 > Para: Daniel Shoskes > CC: BAROQUE-LUTE > Asunto: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Post French and Pre Weiss: what shall we > call it? > > > Hi Danny and the b-List, > > thanks Danny for your very interesting subject! I've been waiting for > eager > comments, but nothing have I seen yet... So I must start, and perhaps > also > provoke a little... :) > > It really is quite ambigious to put borderlines between the "periods" > of > music, and it is even more difficult to name those periods. Everything > mixes and blands, always. In your case: Ennemond G. is clearly in the > "hard > core" French style, perhaps Dennis too. But what about Mouton, not to > speak > of Gallot le jeune. And then we have the German Reusner, still very > French > most often. And then we come to Losy, a little less French, but very > far > off Weiss. And from Losy we go to the other names you listed (see > below). > Not yet rococo, not any more so French, much more "cantabile > italiano"... > > I think that perhaps the adjective "Austrian" or perhaps even > "Imperial" > (;-) could be used. At least most of the places, where this style > flowered > were governed by the Hapsburger Kaiser living in Vienna...;-) > > Another view is that - in my opinion - a period shoud not be named by > its > neighboroughing periods: "transition between Gaultier and Weiss" mocks > and > lessens the value of the wonderful period we are talkig of! Agree? And > as > far as I have understood, the word "transitional" in the case you talk, > refers mostly to the changing tunings in that time. So even that period > is > not "transitional" in musical sense, but only in the technical sense: > testing the tuning alternatives. There are actually here and there some > of > the very same pieces in different tuning patterns. > > So my suggestion is "Austrian". It is not optimal, I agree, But neither > is > the word "French" referring to the vast repertoire in that style > composed > around our Europe. And are we going to save the adjective "German" to > refer to Weiss, Falkenhagen and their gang of 13's? Comments? > > All the best (= Alles gut) > > Arto > > On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:36:45 -0400, Daniel Shoskes <dshos...@mac.com> > wrote: > > Having spent much happy time on my 11 course lute playing the music > of > > Reusner, Conradi, Kellner, Weichenberger and St. Luc, it dawns on me > that > > we don't really have a good descriptor for the period. It is after > the > > French precieux and Brise styles (but has some elements), brings in > more > of > > a cantabile Italian relationship between melody and bass line but > doesn't > > go all the way to the Gallant emphasis on melody (I am sure I have > made > > many a musicologist cringe with my oversimplifications here). Many > > recordings that include pieces from the period are titled "German > Baroque > > Lute Music", or something similar, but that of course doesn't give a > fair > > geographic representation to the Czech, Silesian, Swedish and Belgian > > composers. "Transitional" would be a good descriptive term but alas > has > > already been coapted by those funny tuning systems between > Renaissance > and > > d minor. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Danny > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
