Rob, please do not think I am criticising yourself or your lute, or Martin's work. I am definitley not, and I hope any full reading of my message will show that. I am very much interested in the issue you raised, for two separate reasons : (1) I like gut and I hope to be able to use it, and (2) I am very much interested in the historic research aspect. I really enjoy that.
Your criticism of thick gut, happens to be one of the arguments in favour of loaded strings (and also probably low tension stringing). I am intrigued by this issue, and the research articles by Mimmo Peruffo, and his whole approach to that question really impresses me, as it does some others, (see David van Edwards http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/month/mar01/month.htm) You have every right to chose the soultion which works best for you, and you are right to point out the problems that you have come accross. If we want to use gut, we have to find solutions to those problems. Theo thinks he can play round them, perhaps he can, Satoh goes the two headed low tesnion way, Ed uses Gimped, but each gut user needs to think about that. Le 16 janv. 08 =E0 18:01, Rob a ecrit : >>>> I doubt if that would be the problem with Rob's Maler.<<< > > Erm...who said there was anything wrong with my lute? I can't fault > it - > warm (no matter what strings are on it), well set up, easy to play, > beautifully balanced. One of the best lutes I've ever played. The > 'problem' > is not really a problem either: the thing I liked least about the > particular > gut I used was intonation all over the lute, not just the bass > courses. To > me, that chaconne recording I did is out of tune. It might not > bother anyone > else much, but it drives me to distraction. Ultimately, I guess, I > prefer > the intonation of the nylgut over any 'authenticity' question > regarding > string material. I have no problems playing this lute. If I could > afford to > spend a few hundred pounds experimenting with different makers' gut > and > styles of diapasons, I would happily do so. I do, after all, love > the sound > of gut, but I obviously have other priorities. Rob, I certainly did not say there was a problem with your Maler. Cut from context, it might look like that. I was replying to Theo, who said that some lutes don't work with gut. I answered that considering Martin Shepherd is a gut lover, and wants gut on his lutes, that would harly be the case with this lute (that was my meaning, and no other). I know Martin has spent much time thinking about these issues, and has often written on these pages, and on the French list about this sort of issue. I could say that Martin was the first person I encountered ready to discuss gut, and the difference between gut-types from various makers. I also know how long he has had this project for creating an 11c Maler. It is not just a sudden impulse, but a long term project that Martin has been mulling over for at least the last five years. > > Setting that aside, I wonder, Anthony, why you don't ask Stephen to > make you > a 12c? He has just made one for Paul Beier. I'm sure he'd love to make > another. While I was writing this morning, it suddenly came to me why Satoh was probably using the 12c. I had written a message about low tension stringing (that I have not sent), and I was looking for a photo of Satoh playing to show his RH posiiton, and suddenly, I realized why he had chosen such a lute. It means longer bass strings, while shorter medium and treble, but also, if most 12c lutes were multi- ribbed, a larger bowl. He gets double compensation for the weak bass. He also gets a lute that looks as though it could play French baroque. I hadn't read Kenneth Sparr's pages in detail, but I have just seen that he says almost the same thing, about the invention of this lute type: http://www.tabulatura.com/Mestweb.htm "Using the same (short) string length for all courses of the lute caused problems: a short string length required very thick bass strings which resulted in an inferior sound. On the other hand with a much longer string length it was not possible to tune the highest courses to the desired pitch. One solution was to keep a short string length for the upper register and gradually increase the string length for the bass strings" As I was writing about Satoh's choice, I myself, began to think a little as you have. I was actually wondering about talking to Stephen about it. I knew he had made a 12c lute, but I didn't know who for, or what sort of 12c lute (do you know the sort?). I also rather like Anthony Baile's new 12c recording. However, I am not so keen on the multi-ribbed bowl lutes. As you say yourself, the 9 or 11 ribbed lute has a freer sound. Do we know that Bologna lutes were ever made double-headed, as Anthony Baile's obviously thinks. I rather doubt it. Burwell, and the etching of Jacques Gaultier, places this as quite an early invention, and Kenneth Sparr, says : "This construction was probably developed c. 1620-1630. During the first half of the seventeenth century the trend was to extend the bass-register of the lute by adding more bass strings, and this could be achieved by several different configurations of the instrument." My "hunch" is that this was a furthering of the 10c multi-ribbed lute (branching from), and not at all going in the direction of the later Bologna 11c lute in Dm tuning (which was a break with the multi- ribbed tradition), as you say yourself, with these, there is a move away from the extreme bass and top, towards the mid ground. (even if the 12 c lute was probably also later used for Dm tuning). Adding to my hesitation, David Van Edwards also says "The space in this pegbox is cramped and it is very difficult to change these strings, especially as they tend to wind on towards the tail end of the peg and thus try to force the peg out of its tapered hole. It is one of the most elegant forms the lute ever took, but it is a swine both to make, and to keep in good order. The French may have had good reason to drop it. " I wonder whether this is the sort of lute to adopt when venturing into the French Baroque area, from Renaissance lute music. I will nevertheless, perhaps have a word with Stephen. I am of course, also hoping that MP will eventually commercialize the loaded Venice, and some problems with the 11c Bologna lute could disappear. Regards Anthony > > Rob > > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
