Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recursive covenant opposition, or the absence thereof, was Re: TXHASH + CHECKSIGFROMSTACKVERIFY in lieu of CTV and ANYPREVOUT

2022-02-26 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning again Paul, > With sidechains, changing the ownership set requires that the sidechain > produce a block. > That block requires a 32-byte commitment in the coinbase. > What is more, if any transfers occur on the sidechain, they cannot be real > without a sidechain block, that has to

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recursive covenant opposition, or the absence thereof, was Re: TXHASH + CHECKSIGFROMSTACKVERIFY in lieu of CTV and ANYPREVOUT

2022-02-26 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Paul, > *** > > You have emphasized the following relation: "you have to show your > transaction to everyone" = "thing doesn't scale". > > However, in LN, there is one transaction which you must, in fact, "show to > everyone": your channel-opener. > > Amusingly, in the largeblock si

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recursive covenant opposition, or the absence thereof, was Re: TXHASH + CHECKSIGFROMSTACKVERIFY in lieu of CTV and ANYPREVOUT

2022-02-26 Thread Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
On 2/26/2022 1:43 AM, ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev wrote: ... Drivechains are not a scaling solution [FOOTNOTE 1] ... I personally am interested only in scaling solutions, adding more non-scaling-useable functionality is not of interest to me and I do not really care ... But if there is consensus

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Comparison Of LN and Drivechain Security In The Presence Of 51% Attackers

2022-02-26 Thread Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
Not bad, but not particularly good either. Definitely correct:   1  (plus extra credit, it was originally 1008+2016),   3a "whales"   3b (atomic swaps is the "official" answer, but otc trading is also acceptable, or just "trade" in general)   6   9  part one Close, but not quite right:   2  (p

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recursive covenant opposition, or the absence thereof, was Re: TXHASH + CHECKSIGFROMSTACKVERIFY in lieu of CTV and ANYPREVOUT

2022-02-26 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
> If Drivechains are bad for whatever reason, we should not add recursive covenants. Bad "for who" was the crux of my question to you. Even if drivechains are always bad for their users, I don't think that's a good enough reason to block things that could allow people to build user-space drivechai

Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Comparison Of LN and Drivechain Security In The Presence Of 51% Attackers

2022-02-26 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
> m is how much people want to kill a sidechain, 0 = everybody would be sad if it died and would rather burn all their BTC forever than continue living Math is brutal On Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 01:39 ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > Good morning Paul, > > >

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recursive covenant opposition, or the absence thereof, was Re: TXHASH + CHECKSIGFROMSTACKVERIFY in lieu of CTV and ANYPREVOUT

2022-02-26 Thread Prayank via bitcoin-dev
Good morning ZmnSCPxj, > Of course, I know of no such technique, but given that a technique > (Drivechains) which before would have required its own consensus change, > turns out to be implementable inside recursive covenants, then I wonder if > there are other things that would have required t

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recursive covenant opposition, or the absence thereof, was Re: TXHASH + CHECKSIGFROMSTACKVERIFY in lieu of CTV and ANYPREVOUT

2022-02-26 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
@ZmnSCPxj > we have already rejected Drivechains I also think this is kind of dubious. I don't remember consensus being to "reject" drivechains, as much as consensus was that it wasn't a priority and there wasn't a lot of interest in doing on it from many people (I'm sure Paul could comment furthe

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Documenting the lifetime of a transaction during mempool congestion from the perspective of a rational user

2022-02-26 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
The crux of the type of situation you're talking about is where a source that might revert their payment by rbf double spending sends you money. You mentioned this situation is "not unlikely". What kind of prevalence does this happen with today? Also my question is, if you've been paid by someone