Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments

2022-06-28 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 10:30:39PM +0200, Ruben Somsen via bitcoin-dev wrote: > >demand that a notification transaction meets some minimum miner fee > > Note that this mechanism is not safe against miners, as they can pay > themselves arbitrarily high fees with no downside. Block space is relativ

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable

2022-06-28 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 12:23:40PM -0400, Alex Lee via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > Those who never transact, never realize any benefit. > > > > While that's true, its not relevant and basically a red herring. You need > > to compare those who transact often and rarely hold, to those who hold a > > lot

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable

2022-06-28 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 10:55:56PM -0500, Billy Tetrud wrote: > @Eric > > People who transact are realizing the benefit of money - the avoidance > of barter costs. > > I'm very confident you're incorrect that holders don't receive any benefit > and you're certainly not correct that every spend is

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable

2022-06-28 Thread Alex Lee via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 4:43 AM Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > @Eric > > People who transact are realizing the benefit of money - the avoidance > of barter costs. > > I'm very confident you're incorrect that holders don't receive any benefit > and y

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments

2022-06-28 Thread Alfred Hodler via bitcoin-dev
Hi Bryan, Thanks for your input. >That's a neat trick. What about not using OP_RETURN at all, and just >publishing on a tor hidden service that other wallets check? Alice wouldn't >have to expose on-chain that she is a sender of a private payment. This can be done (Tor keys can even be derived

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments

2022-06-28 Thread Alfred Hodler via bitcoin-dev
Hi Ruben, Good to see your input here. >I agree it's not as efficient as it could be, but how big is this problem in >practice? Expecting payments on more addresses doesn't seem like a huge >overhead. Or are you talking about the hassle of having to support spending >from all these address typ

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable

2022-06-28 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
@Eric > People who transact are realizing the benefit of money - the avoidance of barter costs. I'm very confident you're incorrect that holders don't receive any benefit and you're certainly not correct that every spend is receiving the same benefit. As I'm sure you're aware, one of the primary