Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-14 Thread John Carvalho via bitcoin-dev
Erik, I am fully aware of Lightning and have a been a proponent and builder of it since it was launched, including getting Bitfinex to support LN, building a RN LDK implementation in our upcoming app, etc, but frankly LN has nowhere near the adoption of onchain payments for commerce, and LN complex

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-14 Thread Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev
Also, lightning works fine and is readily available in convenient mobile apps used by millions of people, or in . So the need for a 0conf has been mitigated by other solutions for fast payments with no need for a trust relationship. And for people that don't like mobile risks, core lightning and

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-14 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 12:03:21PM +0200, John Carvalho via bitcoin-dev wrote: > In support of Dario's concern, I feel like there is a degree of gaslighting > happening with the advancement of RBF somehow being okay, while merchants > wanting to manage their own 0conf risk better being not okay. T

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-14 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 02:44:04AM +, alicexbt via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Relay of fullrbf transactions works reasonable well > > already, unless you get unlucky with your selected peers. The only > > missing piece is a few percent of hashrate that will accept fullrbf > > replacement transactio

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-14 Thread John Carvalho via bitcoin-dev
In support of Dario's concern, I feel like there is a degree of gaslighting happening with the advancement of RBF somehow being okay, while merchants wanting to manage their own 0conf risk better being not okay. The argument against 0conf acceptance seems to be "miners can facilitate doublespends

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate danger

2022-10-14 Thread alicexbt via bitcoin-dev
Hi cndm1, > Bitrefill already supports lightning, so for them it would be easy to > solve by displaying the lightning transfer by default and only show > the on-chain payment as a fallback. Currently the on-chain payment at > Bitrefill and other similar providers is really a drop-down where you >