[bitcoin-dev] Conjectures on solving the high interactivity issue in payment pools and channel factories

2022-04-28 Thread Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev
Hi, This post recalls the noticeable interactivity issue encumbering payment pools and channel factories in the context of a high number of participants, describes how the problem can be understood and proposes few solutions with diverse trust-minizations and efficiency assumptions. It is intended

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Conjectures on solving the high interactivity issue in payment pools and channel factories

2022-05-02 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
Hi Antoine, Very interesting exploration. I think you're right that there are issues with the kind of partitioning you're talking about. Lightning works because all participants sign all offchain states (barring data loss). If a participant can be excluded from needing to agree to a new state, the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Conjectures on solving the high interactivity issue in payment pools and channel factories

2022-05-09 Thread Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev
Hi Billy, Thanks for reading. > A. Create sub-pools when the whole group is live that can be used by the > sub- pool participants later without the whole group's involvement. The > whole group is needed to change the whole group's state (eg close or open > sub-pools), but sub-pool states don't ne

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Conjectures on solving the high interactivity issue in payment pools and channel factories

2022-05-10 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Billy, > Very interesting exploration. I think you're right that there are issues with > the kind of partitioning you're talking about. Lightning works because all > participants sign all offchain states (barring data loss). If a participant > can be excluded from needing to agree

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Conjectures on solving the high interactivity issue in payment pools and channel factories

2022-05-12 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
@Antoine > it's also hard to predict in advance the liquidity needs of the sub-pools. Definitely. Better than not being able to use the pool at all when someone's offline tho. > this fan-out transaction could interfere with the confirmation of the simple withdraw transactions > So there is an op

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Conjectures on solving the high interactivity issue in payment pools and channel factories

2023-03-17 Thread jlspc via bitcoin-dev
Hi Antoine, Thanks for your insightful post on the interactivity issue. Some thoughts are inline below. > However, those constructions require all the users to be online and > exchange rounds of signatures to update the balance distribution. Those > liveliness/interactivity requirements are incr

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Conjectures on solving the high interactivity issue in payment pools and channel factories

2023-04-18 Thread Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev
Hi John, Thanks for the read! > Agreed that signing updates and monitoring the blockchain both create always-online requirements that are not compatible with casual users' desires. I think > it's helpful to separate these two cases, as they affect different parties and their solutions differ. > I