Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-29 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Mike, >   > The problem with transaction being pruned is that the data in them might > now be used in a *future* `OP_PUBREF`. > > I can see how pruning is needed for scalability, and pruning can be made > compatible with a reference to a transaction. If a transaction is pruned, > t

Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-29 Thread Mike Brooks via bitcoin-dev
ZmnSCPxj, > Lightning uses a "short channel ID" which is basically an index of block number + index of transaction + index of output to refer to channels. Oh wow, this is very similar to the PUBREF proposal. In fact the OP_PUBREF4 operation could be modified to take the tuple: (block number, inde

Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-28 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Mike, >  I think that this implication affects other applications built on the > blockchain, not just the PubRef proposal: > I believe not? Current applications use txids to refer to previous transactions, so even a short-ranged history rewrite will mostly not affect them --- they

Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-28 Thread Mike Brooks via bitcoin-dev
ZmnSCPxj, I think that this implication affects other applications built on the blockchain, not just the PubRef proposal: > There is a potential for a targeted attack where a large payout going to a `scriptPubKey` that uses `OP_PUBREF` on a recently-confirmed transaction finds that recently-con

Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-28 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Mike, Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Sunday, July 28, 2019 4:03 AM, Mike Brooks wrote: > Hey ZmnSCPxj, > > As to your first point.  I wasn't aware there was so much volatility at the > tip, also 100 blocks is quite the difference!  I agree

Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-27 Thread Mike Brooks via bitcoin-dev
Hey ZmnSCPxj, As to your first point. I wasn't aware there was so much volatility at the tip, also 100 blocks is quite the difference! I agree no one could references a transaction in a newly formed blocks, but I'm curious how this number was chosen. Do you have any documentation or code that yo

Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-24 Thread Mike Brooks via bitcoin-dev
Fungibility is a good question for inductive reasoning. After all, what is a claim without some rigger? There exists some set of wallets 'w' which contain a balance of satoshi too small to recover because it doesn't meet the minimum transaction fee required to confirm the transaction. These wall

Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-19 Thread Pieter Wuille via bitcoin-dev
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 12:13 William Casarin via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > Hello Mike, > > Mike Brooks via bitcoin-dev > writes: > > > Motivation > > > > Giving scripts the ability to refer to data on the blockchain will reduce > > transaction sizes because ke

Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-19 Thread Yuval Kogman via bitcoin-dev
Hi, On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 at 17:49, Mike Brooks wrote: > Users will adopt whatever the client accepts - this feature would be > transparent. > My skepticism was based in an assumption on my part that most such data is produced by actors with a track record of neglecting transaction efficiency. I'

Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-19 Thread Yuval Kogman via bitcoin-dev
Hi, On Fri, 19 Jul 2019 at 14:00, Mike Brooks via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: Giving scripts the ability to refer to data on the blockchain will reduce > transaction sizes because key material does not have to be repeated in > every Script. > Given that address re

Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-19 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Mike, > PubRef is not susceptible to malleability attacks because the blockchain is > immutable. This is not quite accurate. While very old blocks are indeed immutable-in-practice, chain tips are not, and are often replaced. At least specify that such data can only be referred to i

Re: [bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-19 Thread William Casarin via bitcoin-dev
Hello Mike, Mike Brooks via bitcoin-dev writes: > Motivation > > Giving scripts the ability to refer to data on the blockchain will reduce > transaction sizes because key material does not have to be repeated in > every Script. Users of the network are rewarded with smaller transaction > sizes

[bitcoin-dev] PubRef - Script OP Code For Public Data References

2019-07-19 Thread Mike Brooks via bitcoin-dev
I noticed that this Merkle tree we are building is made more expensive by including repetitive data. So, this proposal draws inspiration from LZ78, an algorithm which constructs a dictionary of repetitive strings which are then referred to by their index. What if the blockchain already built a dic