Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-09 Thread Akiva Lichtner via bitcoin-dev
It's an interval (a,b) where a, b are between 0 and 21*10^6*10^8 . Somebody pointed out that this is not easily accomplished using the current code because there are no coin ids. On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Loi Luu wrote: > I guess the most basic question is how do you define a coin here?

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-09 Thread Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev
On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:58 PM, Akiva Lichtner wrote: > Correct me if I am wrong, but the dream of a virtual currency where > everybody is equal and runs the client on their mobile device went out the > window long ago. I think that went out with the special mining hardware. If Mining equipment is

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-09 Thread Dave Scotese via bitcoin-dev
Edit: "... as well as those blocks with hashes for which the last B bits match any of the next N bit patterns where *N is largest* integer for which the claimed output is not *greater* than (subsidy+fees)*(N/(2^B)). On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Dave Scotese wrote: > If we partition the work u

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-09 Thread Dave Scotese via bitcoin-dev
If we partition the work using bits from the TxID (once it is no longer malleable) or even bits from whatever definition we use for "coin," then every transaction may have to use all the other partitions to verify that the incoming coin is good. If all partitions are involved in validating and sto

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-09 Thread Akiva Lichtner via bitcoin-dev
Hi Andrew, What you suggested is much more sophisticated than what I suggested. I am strictly talking about independent chains - that's all. I am struck by the fact that the topic of "scaling bitcoin" seems to be a mix of different problems, and when people are really trying to solve different pr

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-09 Thread Andrew via bitcoin-dev
Hi Akiva I sketched out a similar proposal here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1083345.0 It's good to see people talking about this :). I'm not quite convinced with segregated witness, as it might mess up some things, but will take a closer look. On Dec 9, 2015 7:32 AM, "Loi Luu via bit

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-09 Thread Loi Luu via bitcoin-dev
I guess the most basic question is how do you define a coin here? Thanks, Loi Luu On 10 Dec 2015 2:26 a.m., "Akiva Lichtner" wrote: > Thanks for giving serious consideration to my post. > > With regard to your question "if a transaction spends a "coin" that > ends in "1" and creates a new coin t

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-09 Thread Akiva Lichtner via bitcoin-dev
Thanks for giving serious consideration to my post. With regard to your question "if a transaction spends a "coin" that ends in "1" and creates a new coin that ends in "1", which partition should process the transaction?", I would answer that only one partition is involved. In other words, there a

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-08 Thread Loi Luu via bitcoin-dev
Dear Akiva, Its Loi Luu, one of the authors of the SCP protocol ( http://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1168.pdf ). Before SCP, we had been thinking hard about how to do sharding efficiently without degrading any security guarantee. A simple solution which splits the coins, or TXs in to several partitions

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-08 Thread Akiva Lichtner via bitcoin-dev
If the system is modified to scale up that means the number of transactions is going up. That means the number of miners can also go up, and so will the portion of malicious nodes. At least this seems reasonable. The problem with partitions is that an attacker can focus on one partition. However be

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-08 Thread Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev
If partition is selected from a random key (the hash of the output for example) then payment recipients would need to operate a full node on each of the chains. What's the point of partitioning if virtually everybody needs to operate each partition? The mining aspect has it's own set of issues, b

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-08 Thread Akiva Lichtner via bitcoin-dev
It's true that miners would have to be prepared to work on any partition. I don't see where the number affects defeating double spending, what matters is the nonce in the block that keeps the next successful miner random. I expect that the number of miners would be ten times larger as well, so an

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-08 Thread Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev
Payment recipients would need to operate a daemon for each chain, thus guaranteeing no scaling advantage. (There are other issues, but I believe that to be enough of a show stopper not to continue). On 12/08/2015 08:27 AM, Akiva Lichtner via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Hello, > > I am seeking some exper

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-08 Thread Akiva Lichtner via bitcoin-dev
Thanks for your response and links. I think the difference is that those proposals all shard the mining work, whereas what I wrote in my post shards the coin itself. In other words different parts of the coin space are forever segregated, never ending up in the same block. It's a big difference co

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-08 Thread Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Akiva Lichtner via bitcoin-dev wrote: > and miners would have to round-robin through partitions At first glance this proposal seems most similar to the sharding proposals: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/sharding-the-blockchain/ https://github.co

[bitcoin-dev] Scaling by Partitioning

2015-12-08 Thread Akiva Lichtner via bitcoin-dev
Hello, I am seeking some expert feedback on an idea for scaling Bitcoin. As a brief introduction: I work in the payment industry and I have twenty years' experience in development. I have some experience with process groups and ordering protocols too. I think I understand Satoshi's paper but I adm