Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-13 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 05:10:37PM +, alicexbt via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Hi Peter, > > > Bringing up Whirlpool here is silly. Everyone knows Samourai has made, at > > best, > > some rather insane technical decisions. Quite likely downright malicious > > with > > their xpub collection. Their o

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-13 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:14:47AM -1000, David A. Harding wrote: > On 2023-01-10 00:06, Peter Todd wrote: > > Remember, we'd like decentralized coinjoin implementations like > > Joinmarket to > > work. How does a decentralized coinjoin implement "conflict monitoring"? > > 1. Run a relay node with

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-12 Thread alicexbt via bitcoin-dev
Hi Peter, > Bringing up Whirlpool here is silly. Everyone knows Samourai has made, at > best, > some rather insane technical decisions. Quite likely downright malicious with > their xpub collection. Their opinion isn't relevant. Cite reputable sources. I didn't want this thread to become a wasab

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-12 Thread alicexbt via bitcoin-dev
Hi Peter, > ## How Full-RBF Mitigates the Double-Spend DoS Attack > > Modulo tx-pinning, full-rbf mitigates the double-spend DoS attack in a very > straightforward way: the low fee transaction is replaced by the higher fee > transaction, resulting in the latter getting mined in a reasonable amoun

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-10 Thread David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
On 2023-01-10 00:06, Peter Todd wrote: Remember, we'd like decentralized coinjoin implementations like Joinmarket to work. How does a decentralized coinjoin implement "conflict monitoring"? 1. Run a relay node with a conflict-detection patch. Stock Bitcoin Core with -debug=mempoolrej will

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-10 Thread David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
On 2023-01-09 22:47, Peter Todd wrote: How do you propose that the participants learn about the double-spend? Without knowing that it happened, they can't respond as you suggested. I can think of various ways---many of them probably the same ideas that would occur to you. More concise than li

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-10 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 12:02:35AM -1000, David A. Harding wrote: > On 2023-01-09 22:47, Peter Todd wrote: > > How do you propose that the participants learn about the double-spend? > > Without > > knowing that it happened, they can't respond as you suggested. > > I can think of various ways---man

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-10 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 09:19:39AM +, alicexbt wrote: > Hi Peter, > > > ## How Full-RBF Mitigates the Double-Spend DoS Attack > > > > Modulo tx-pinning, full-rbf mitigates the double-spend DoS attack in a very > > straightforward way: the low fee transaction is replaced by the higher fee > >

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-10 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Mon, Jan 09, 2023 at 09:11:46PM -1000, David A. Harding wrote: > On 2023-01-09 12:18, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > [The quote:] > > > > "Does fullrbf offer any benefits other than breaking zeroconf > > business > > practices?" > > > > ...has caused a lot of confusion by imply

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-09 Thread David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
On 2023-01-09 12:18, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: [The quote:] "Does fullrbf offer any benefits other than breaking zeroconf business practices?" ...has caused a lot of confusion by implying that there were no benefits. [...] tl;dr: without full-rbf people can intentionally a

[bitcoin-dev] Why Full-RBF Makes DoS Attacks on Multiparty Protocols Significantly More Expensive

2023-01-09 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
I was reminded recently that while Suhas Daftuar cited tx-pinning as a reason to remove full-rbf, he neglected to mention that tx-pinning greatly increases the cost of attacks on multi-party protocols. Him (rhetorically?) asking(4): "Does fullrbf offer any benefits other than breaking zeroconf