Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot (and graftroot) complexity

2020-02-09 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning The Group, There are already many excellent arguments presented for Taproot, let me present a related one. Notice your example MAST: > >       /\ >      /  \ >     /    \ >    /      \ >   /\      /\ >  /  \    /  \ > /\  /\  /\  /\ > a b c d e f g h Of particular note is that

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot (and graftroot) complexity

2020-02-09 Thread Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Feb 09, 2020 at 02:19:55PM -0600, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev wrote: > However, after > our review, we're left perplexed about the development of Taproot (and > Graftroot, to a lesser extent). I think the main cause of the perplexity is not seeing the benefit of taproot. For me, the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot (and graftroot) complexity (reflowed)

2020-02-09 Thread David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Feb 09, 2020 at 02:47:29PM -0600, Anon via Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev wrote: > 1) Is Taproot actually more private than bare MAST and Schnorr separately? Yes. > What are the actual anonymity set benefits compared to doing the separately? When schnorr and taproot are done together,

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Purge attacks (spin on sabotage attacks)

2020-02-09 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning M, > I don't see how the scenario you outline here has anything to do with the > mechanism I proposed. An empty block doesn't contain any transactions (by > definition) so it wont contest any transactions in any given node's mempool. > The aim isn't to prevent empty nodes, it's

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot (and graftroot) complexity

2020-02-09 Thread Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev
> In particular, you care more about privacy when you are contesting a > close of a channel or other script path because then the miners could be more > likely to extract a rent from you as "ransom" for properly closing your channel > (or in other words, in a contested close the value of the

[bitcoin-dev] Taproot (and graftroot) complexity (reflowed)

2020-02-09 Thread Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev
Apologies for my previous attempt at relaying the message- it looks like the emails got mangled on the archive. I am re-sending them in this combined email with what I hope will be better formatting. Again this is from some nym that had trouble posting to this mailing list; I didn't see any emails

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot (and graftroot) complexity

2020-02-09 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
Responding purely to one point as this may be sufficient to clear up lots of discussion: On 2/9/20 8:19 PM, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Is Taproot just a probability assumption about the frequency and > likelihood of > the signature case over the script case? Is this a good assumption? 

[bitcoin-dev] Taproot public NUMS optimization (Re: Taproot (and graftroot) complexity)

2020-02-09 Thread Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev
The following is a message forwarded from an anonymous email that, for whatever reason, couldn't be relayed through the mailing list without my assistance. This is message (3/3). This email is the third of a collection of sentiments from a group of developers who in aggregate prefer to remain

[bitcoin-dev] An alternative deployment path for taproot technology (Re: Taproot (and graftroot) complexity)

2020-02-09 Thread Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev
The following is a message forwarded from an anonymous email that, for whatever reason, couldn't be relayed through the mailing list without my assistance. This is message (2/3). This email is the second of a collection of sentiments from a group of developers who in aggregate prefer to remain

[bitcoin-dev] Taproot (and graftroot) complexity

2020-02-09 Thread Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev
The following is a message forwarded from an anonymous email that, for whatever reason, couldn't be relayed through the mailing list without my assistance. This email is the first of a collection of sentiments from a group of developers who in aggregate prefer to remain anonymous. These emails

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Purge attacks (spin on sabotage attacks)

2020-02-09 Thread Mike Kelly via bitcoin-dev
Hi ZmnSCPxj, On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 12:00 AM ZmnSCPxj wrote: > Good morning M, > > > > > Nodes reject announced blocks that: > > > > > > > > * include transactions that are in contest with any in their mempool > > > > * include transactions that are in contest with any in the contest > pool > >