Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Peter Todd
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 05:02:39PM -0800, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > It's the year 2043— the Y2038 problem is behind us and everyone is > beginning to forget how terrible it turned out to be— By some amazing > chance Bitcoin still exists and is widely used. Off-chain system like > fidelity bonded b

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Peter Todd
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:44:11PM -0500, Stephen Pair wrote: > One of the beauties of bitcoin is that the miners have a very strong > incentive to distribute as widely and as quickly as possible the blocks > they find...they also have a very strong incentive to hear about the blocks > that others

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Stephen Pair
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:38 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 6:44 PM, Stephen Pair wrote: > >(by which I mean the fee or cost associated with the bandwidth and > validation that a transaction requires) with some amount of profit. This > means that the relay node will not f

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 6:44 PM, Stephen Pair wrote: > One of the beauties of bitcoin is that the miners have a very strong > incentive to distribute as widely and as quickly as possible the blocks they > find...they also have a very strong incentive to hear about the blocks that > others find.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Stephen Pair
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > > I understand your arguments, but don't agree with many of your conclusions. The requirement for everyone to hear the history doesn't get talked > about much One of the beauties of bitcoin is that the miners have a very strong incent

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > I hope that should it become necessary to do so that correct path will > be obvious to everyone, otherwise there is a grave risk of undermining > the justification for the confidence in the immutability of any of the > rules of the system.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Stephen Pair
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Gavin Andresen wrote: > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > >> Since, in the long run, >> Bitcoin can't meet its security and decenteralization promises without >> blockspace scarcity to drive non-trivial fees and without scaling >> limits t

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Stephen Pair wrote: > If you've already validated the majority of transactions in a block, isn't > validating the block not all that compute intensive? Thus, it's really not > blocks that should be used to impose any sort of scarcity, but rather it's > the cost

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Implementing trading across chains

2013-02-13 Thread Jorge Timón
Well, if it's even possible to trade across "chains" with Ripple (and I don't know of any reason shouldn't be), you will have to wait to the release of the full node (validator) code, for now only a javascript web client is open sourced. But it seems they at least have plans for contracts judging f

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Implementing trading across chains

2013-02-13 Thread Petr Praus
Jorge, thanks for bitcoinx tip, I didn't know about it and it's certainly related. I'll have a closer look Regarding Ripple, I tried it but as far as I can tell, it doesn't have any contract enforcement (by technical means) built in. On 11 February 2013 05:03, Jorge Timón wrote: > Hi, you may b

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:02 PM, Gavin Andresen wrote: > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Gregory Maxwell > wrote: >> Since, in the long run, >> Bitcoin can't meet its security and decenteralization promises without >> blockspace scarcity to drive non-trivial fees and without scaling >> limits

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Gavin Andresen
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > Since, in the long run, > Bitcoin can't meet its security and decenteralization promises without > blockspace scarcity to drive non-trivial fees and without scaling > limits to keep it decenteralized— it's not a change that could be made

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Raph Frank wrote: >> Bitcoin is not a democracy— it quite intentionally uses the consensus >> mechanism _only_ the one thing that nodes can not autonomously and >> interdependently validate (the ordering of transactions). > So, how is max block size to be decided t

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incorporating block validation rule modifications into the block chain

2013-02-13 Thread Raph Frank
On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > You misunderstand what BIP_0034 is doing— it's not gauging consensus, > it's making sure that the change is safe to enforce. This is a subtle > but important difference. Sounds reasonable. The change in BIP-34 doesn't cause old client to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] RFC: empty scriptPubKeys and OP_RETURN for marking unspendable txouts

2013-02-13 Thread Mike Hearn
> So what exactly was the OP_RETURN bug anyway? I know it has something to > do with not executing the scriptSig and scriptPubKey separately > (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=58579.msg691432#msg691432) but > commit 7f7f07 that you reference isn't in the tree, nor is 0.3.5 tagged. > It was