Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bi-directional micropayment channels with CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-01-11 Thread Peter Todd
On Fri, Jan 09, 2015 at 01:40:53PM +0200, Nathan Cook wrote: Would you mind doing up some actual scriptPubKeys/transactions using this idea as an example? I think it'd make the review process a lot easier for everyone if there was something more concrete. (equally, sorry I haven't had a chance to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bi-directional micropayment channels with CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-01-11 Thread Mike Hearn
Firstly, apologies to Nathan for not actually providing feedback on his protocol. I've put pondering it onto my mental todo list. The notion of a payment tree is interesting but complicated - I would need to think about it and maybe draw myself some diagrams before having useful feedback here. If y

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bi-directional micropayment channels with CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-01-11 Thread odinn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Please comment if possible on some of the techno-cultural implications of ongoing development of bi-directional micropayment channels? For example, consider zakat example(s): www[dot]hidaya[dot]org/publications/zakat-information/10-what-is-zakat-obl

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bi-directional micropayment channels with CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-01-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: > Additionally, there is a school of thought that says Bitcoin must work even > if lots of miners are malicious and willing to break arbitrary things in > order to try and get more money. I don't think Bitcoin can really be a This being unsafe doe

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bi-directional micropayment channels with CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-01-09 Thread Mike Hearn
The original design is documented at the bottom of here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_7:_Rapidly-adjusted_.28micro.29payments_to_a_pre-determined_party In this design, time locked transactions can be broadcast across the network and replaced by broadcasting a new transaction that

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bi-directional micropayment channels with CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-01-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: >> A limitation on most existing micropayment channel ideas is that payments >> can only flow in one direction. > It's worth noting that the original protocol as designed by Satoshi did not > have this limitation. It has evolved this way because of

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bi-directional micropayment channels with CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-01-09 Thread Jeff Garzik
Mike, Can you be more specific? You reference "original design" without saying how it was different/better. On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 8:20 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > A limitation on most existing micropayment channel ideas is that payments >> can only flow in one direction. >> > > It's worth noting

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bi-directional micropayment channels with CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-01-09 Thread Mike Hearn
> > A limitation on most existing micropayment channel ideas is that payments > can only flow in one direction. > It's worth noting that the original protocol as designed by Satoshi did not have this limitation. It has evolved this way because of ad-hoc DoS fixes over time (btw I'm not saying they

[Bitcoin-development] Bi-directional micropayment channels with CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-01-09 Thread Nathan Cook
A limitation on most existing micropayment channel ideas is that payments can only flow in one direction. This is because the payment receiver can sign -any- transaction you send them, not just the most recent one, and so it's possible to just sign the transaction transferring the largest amount in