Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-15 Thread Jeff Garzik
2012/4/15 Jorge Timón : > On 4/12/12, Jeff Garzik wrote: >> 1.  N = 1 or 2 or whatever the community prefers.  Ideally enough time >> for a third-tier miner, mining strange TXs, finds a block. >> 2.  H1 = height of block chain, when a TX is received >> 3.  H2 = H1 + (144 * N) >> 4.  If block chain

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-15 Thread Jorge Timón
On 4/12/12, Jeff Garzik wrote: > 1. N = 1 or 2 or whatever the community prefers. Ideally enough time > for a third-tier miner, mining strange TXs, finds a block. > 2. H1 = height of block chain, when a TX is received > 3. H2 = H1 + (144 * N) > 4. If block chain height reaches H2, and TX has

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-15 Thread Andreas Schildbach
On 04/14/2012 10:20 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: >>> Furthermore, many of these ideas -- like sending TX's directly to the >>> merchant -- involve far more direct payee<->payer communication on the >>> part of the wallet client than is currently envisioned >> >> Yes, though it's worth remembering that t

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-14 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Pieter Wuille wrote: > On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 04:20:50PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: >> Some HTTP derivative would probably make life easier for mobile >> payments and firewalled scenarios, and for client->merchant >> communications, for instance. > > Have you ever

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-14 Thread Pieter Wuille
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 04:20:50PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: > >> Furthermore, many of these ideas -- like sending TX's directly to the > >> merchant -- involve far more direct payee<->payer communication on the > >> part of the wallet client than is currently envisioned > > > > Yes, though it's wo

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-14 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: >> So, to be specific... a A->B chain of transactions, that collectively >> meet the network's fee requirements? > > Yes. ACK on the concept >> Ideally the fee, if any, is market based and negotiated. Problem is... like >> democracy, no matter

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-14 Thread Mike Hearn
> So, to be specific... a A->B chain of transactions, that collectively > meet the network's fee requirements? Yes. > Ideally the fee, if any, is market based and negotiated. Problem is... like > democracy, no matter how ugly it is, people have trouble finding a > better system :) I think this i

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-13 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 6:04 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > It sounds OK as long as you exclude nLockTimed transactions. ACK, agreed > That said, if you broadcast a transaction that does not meet the fee > rules, you should be able to notice that it wasn't accepted by your > peers immediately. Today it

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-13 Thread Mike Hearn
It sounds OK as long as you exclude nLockTimed transactions. That said, if you broadcast a transaction that does not meet the fee rules, you should be able to notice that it wasn't accepted by your peers immediately. Today it's painful because the protocol isn't very chatty - in bitcoinj I plan to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-13 Thread Andy Parkins
On 2012 April 12 Thursday, Jeff Garzik wrote: > One of my From-Day-One complaints about bitcoin is that transactions > behavior could be far more deterministic (predictable), from a user > standpoint. Transactions in the current system can easily remain in > limbo forever. > > One big step in m

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-12 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Alan Reiner wrote: > My one big concern about this that users find a way to exploit this behavior > for themselves.  If it's too easy for users to create tx they know will get > stuck and expire, it's no different than letting them cancel their zero-conf > transact

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-12 Thread Alan Reiner
My one big concern about this that users find a way to exploit this behavior for themselves. If it's too easy for users to create tx they know will get stuck and expire, it's no different than letting them cancel their zero-conf transactions. i.e. I pay 0.5 BTC in a store for a candy bar, so I se

[Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin TX fill-or-kill deterministic behavior

2012-04-12 Thread Jeff Garzik
Not sure whether this rises to the level of a BIP or not, as it is largely an implementation change. One of my From-Day-One complaints about bitcoin is that transactions behavior could be far more deterministic (predictable), from a user standpoint. Transactions in the current system can easily r