Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Mikael Abrahamsson
On Sun, 8 Dec 2013, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: FYI: Norway has at least two entirely distinct ISPs that offer 200 Mbit/sec or more. Switzerland has at least two ISPs that offer 150 Mbit/sec or more. (All four examples are to private end users; of course, availability varies with where you liv

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Sebastian Moeller
Hi Juliusz, On Dec 7, 2013, at 13:59 , Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: >>> Perhaps you should push your system to OpenWRT? > >> There is still some work going on to streamline the gui. > > Fair enough. That's important. > >> there are less features in the aqm-scripts for prioritizing packet >> t

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Mark Constable
On 12/08/2013 03:24 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: The comment about the WNDR3800 not being able to push this is of course relevant, so I guess we need a better platform if we want to do testing for these higher speeds. Not cheap at $307 delivered (to AU) but ready to use straight away... htt

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Juliusz Chroboczek
>> FYI: Norway has at least two entirely distinct ISPs that offer 200 >> Mbit/sec or more. > Sweden has a bunch of them as well, 1000/100 is quite common, > 1000/1000 can be had I stand corrected. > The comment about the WNDR3800 not being able to push this is of > course relevant, I think that

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Juliusz Chroboczek
>> The promise of fq_codel is that we can get rid of our prioritising >> hacks -- if we need that kind of features, then fq_codel has >> failed. > Is that really true? given enough concurrent flows, critical flows > might be delayed purely be the round robin scheduling of equally > "worthy" packet

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Outback Dingo
On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 6:00 AM, Mark Constable wrote: > On 12/08/2013 03:24 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > >> The comment about the WNDR3800 not being able to push this is of course >> relevant, so I guess we need a better platform if we want to do testing >> for these higher speeds. >> > > No

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Outback Dingo
On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Outback Dingo wrote: > > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 6:00 AM, Mark Constable wrote: > >> On 12/08/2013 03:24 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >> >>> The comment about the WNDR3800 not being able to push this is of course >>> relevant, so I guess we need a better platf

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Aaron Wood
> The comment about the WNDR3800 not being able to push this is of course relevant, so I guess we need a better platform if we want to do testing for these higher speeds. One thing that I've noticed a number of newer chipsets doing is moving "network acceleration" into hardware, as a way to get to

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Jim Gettys
Yeah, Comcast upped my 50/10 service to 100/20 without asking early in the year. We definitely need a better platform; but we've known that for quite a while On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 12:24 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > On Sun, 8 Dec 2013, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: > > FYI: Norway has at

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Neil Davies
On 8 Dec 2013, at 10:40, Sebastian Moeller wrote: > ... > Is that really true? given enough concurrent flows, critical flows > might be delayed purely be the round robin scheduling of equally "worthy" > packets in fq_codel, so some residual priory system might still make senseā€¦  Sebasti

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Sebastian Moeller
Hi Juliusz, On Dec 8, 2013, at 14:25 , Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: >>> The promise of fq_codel is that we can get rid of our prioritising >>> hacks -- if we need that kind of features, then fq_codel has >>> failed. > >> Is that really true? given enough concurrent flows, critical flows >> might

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Mark Constable
On 12/09/2013 12:01 AM, Outback Dingo wrote: Not cheap at $307 delivered (to AU) but ready to use straight away... http://utilite-computer.com/web/utilite-pro-specifications Mark.. http://cubieboard.org/ Id look at the Cubieboard3: Cubietruck The SATA connector is good but it's not quite

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Jonathan Morton
On 8 Dec, 2013, at 3:12 pm, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > (2) making fq_codel do something fast at high data rates At those sorts of data rates, the "usual" condition will be that the queue is empty *and* the output interface can immediately accept a packet. With both of those conditions satisf

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Dave Taht
On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 5:12 AM, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: >>> FYI: Norway has at least two entirely distinct ISPs that offer 200 >>> Mbit/sec or more. > >> Sweden has a bunch of them as well, 1000/100 is quite common, >> 1000/1000 can be had > > I stand corrected. > >> The comment about the WNDR38

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Juliusz Chroboczek
> > as long as you have fewer than 250 congestion-limited flows at > > a given time. > Currently not doing much of anything my router has 142 active > connections (according to conntrack) 142 active conntrack entries, as opposed to congestion-limited flows. Roughly speaking, an active conntrack e

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Juliusz Chroboczek
> > I think that the WNDR3800 should be able to push a gigabit, even with NAT. > > No, it tops out at about 330Mbit/sec currently with no firewall rules, > no nat. Full-size frames? That sucks. (And thanks for the hard data.) > No. aqm-scripts can't push 110KB/sec through *HTB*. Typo? > The

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Sebastian Moeller
Hi Mark, On Dec 8, 2013, at 17:44 , Mark Constable wrote: > On 12/09/2013 12:01 AM, Outback Dingo wrote: >>> Not cheap at $307 delivered (to AU) but ready to use straight away... >>> http://utilite-computer.com/web/utilite-pro-specifications >> >> Mark.. http://cubieboard.org/ >> Id look at

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Jonathan Morton
Data point: Annex M ADSL2 can be approximated as 10M down, 2M up in practice. Throw BitTorrent at that, and round-robin delay absolutely is relevant. ADSL1 connections will be even more so. Not everyone lives in a city in Scandinavia. So a simple tiered scheme which can distinguish VoIP from BitTo

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Sebastian Moeller
Hi Juliusz, On Dec 8, 2013, at 18:47 , Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: >>> as long as you have fewer than 250 congestion-limited flows at >>> a given time. > >> Currently not doing much of anything my router has 142 active >> connections (according to conntrack) > > 142 active conntrack entries, as

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Sebastian Moeller
Hi Jonathan, On Dec 8, 2013, at 20:01 , Jonathan Morton wrote: > Data point: Annex M ADSL2 can be approximated as 10M down, 2M up in practice. > Throw BitTorrent at that, and round-robin delay absolutely is relevant. ADSL1 > connections will be even more so. Not everyone lives in a city in Sc

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Hal Murray
> Even at 1000 symmetric I still think it would be a good idea to isolate > really latency critical traffic from the rest, even if under normal > circumstances there should be no problem, I guess a "better safe than sorry" > approach. But, hey I do not do this for a living so I might be on t

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Jonathan Morton
On 8 Dec, 2013, at 7:56 pm, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: >> Notably it seems few have internalized what the "sparse stream" >> optimization does for things like voip. > > We're waiting with held breath until you care to enlighten us ;-) I think I know what he's talking about. This is where a pack

Re: [Bloat] curious.....

2013-12-08 Thread Stephen Hemminger
On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 12:41:52 -0800 Hal Murray wrote: > > > Even at 1000 symmetric I still think it would be a good idea to isolate > > really latency critical traffic from the rest, even if under normal > > circumstances there should be no problem, I guess a "better safe than sorry" > > appr