Re: [Bloat] fast lanes

2014-05-16 Thread Laurent GUERBY
On Thu, 2014-05-15 at 18:03 -0700, Dave Taht wrote: > A side note: It's taken me a long time to finally realize what was > wrong with level3's recent blog posting here: > > http://blog.level3.com/global-connectivity/observations-internet-middleman/ > > The loss chart on the right here that they s

Re: [Bloat] fast lanes

2014-05-16 Thread Dave Taht
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 1:08 AM, Laurent GUERBY wrote: > On Thu, 2014-05-15 at 18:03 -0700, Dave Taht wrote: >> A side note: It's taken me a long time to finally realize what was >> wrong with level3's recent blog posting here: >> >> http://blog.level3.com/global-connectivity/observations-internet

Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] fq_codel is two years old

2014-05-16 Thread Michael Welzl
Hi, I completely agree that this service differentiation was wrong from the beginning. The idea of using bits to implement a trade-off that doesn't involve prioritization between users is old (*), and has always been the right approach in my opinion. At least one proposal in this direction is

Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] fq_codel is two years old

2014-05-16 Thread David P. Reed
I'll answer this way... The endpoints can use information to slow down as early as possible. That's the whole point of control loop tuning. The fundamental resonance of a control loop depends on its speed of draining and filling the storage element. So you want to sample and deliver ASAP two th

Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] fq_codel is two years old

2014-05-16 Thread Jim Gettys
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 10:52 AM, wrote: > On Thu, 15 May 2014 16:32:55 -0400, dpr...@reed.com said: > > > And in the end of the day, the problem is congestion, which is very > > non-linear. There is almost no congestion at almost all places in the > Internet > > at any particular time. You can

Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] fq_codel is two years old

2014-05-16 Thread dpreed
I agree with you Jim about being careful with QoS. That's why Andrew Odlyzko proposed the experiment with exactly two classes, and proposed it as an *experiment*. So many researchers and IETF members seem to think we should just turn on diffserv and everything will work great... I've seen very

[Bloat] QOS on the local network (was: fq_codel is two years old)

2014-05-16 Thread David Collier-Brown
Jim Gettys wrote > Personally, I've mostly been interested in QOS in the local network: as > "hints", for example, that it is worth more aggressive bidding for transmit > opportunities in WiFi, for example to ensure my VOIP, teleconferencing, > gaming, music playing and other actually real time pa