Re: [Bloat] [e2e] [aqm] What is a good burst? -- AQM evaluation guidelines

2014-01-03 Thread dpreed
End-to-end queueing delay (aggregate of delays in all queues except for the queues in the endpoints themselves) should typically never (never means <99.9% of any hour-long period) exceed 200 msec. in the worst case, and if at all possible never exceed 100 msec. in networks capable of carryin

Re: [Bloat] [e2e] [aqm] What is a good burst? -- AQM evaluation guidelines

2013-12-16 Thread Fred Baker (fred)
On Dec 16, 2013, at 6:05 AM, Naeem Khademi wrote: > and to clarify more about what else was discussed, it seems to me some of us > tend to correspond and relate the notion of "good queue" vs. "bad queue" used > by KN+VJ ACM queue paper to my question on "good bursts". While they likely > to

Re: [Bloat] [e2e] [aqm] What is a good burst? -- AQM evaluation guidelines

2013-12-16 Thread Steinar H. Gunderson
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 04:28:35PM +0200, Jonathan Morton wrote: > I am also reminded of the livestreamed demoscene event from a couple of > years ago, which was producing enormous aggregate bursts every time a frame > group completed encoding (multiple times a second). This wasn't enough on > a s

Re: [Bloat] [e2e] [aqm] What is a good burst? -- AQM evaluation guidelines

2013-12-16 Thread Jonathan Morton
On 16 Dec, 2013, at 3:47 pm, Naeem Khademi wrote: > An example: when designing my AQM X should I care about 64K TSO-generated > bursts to safely pass without dropping or not? If there is at least 6Mbps bandwidth downstream of your queue, then codel at least will pass such a burst in isolation.

Re: [Bloat] [e2e] [aqm] What is a good burst? -- AQM evaluation guidelines

2013-12-16 Thread Naeem Khademi
and to clarify more about what else was discussed, it seems to me some of us tend to correspond and relate the notion of "good queue" vs. "bad queue" used by KN+VJ ACM queue paper to my question on "good bursts". While they likely to be correlated (I have no argument on this now), the notion of "go

Re: [Bloat] [e2e] [aqm] What is a good burst? -- AQM evaluation guidelines

2013-12-16 Thread Naeem Khademi
Bob, Fred and all I'll copy/paste the question here again: "what is a good burst (size) that AQMs should allow?" and/or "how an AQM can have a notion of the right burst size?" So, obviously, as Bob mentioned, I'm concerned about what AQMs should or shouldn't do. The mission of dealing with packet

Re: [Bloat] [e2e] [aqm] What is a good burst? -- AQM evaluation guidelines

2013-12-15 Thread Fred Baker (fred)
On Dec 15, 2013, at 2:57 PM, Bob Briscoe wrote: > Fred, > > Jonathan Morton, Michael Scharf & I took Naeem's question to mean "What > should an AQM assume the size of a good burst is?" whereas I think you and > David C-B took the question to mean "What should an end-system take the size > o

Re: [Bloat] [e2e] [aqm] What is a good burst? -- AQM evaluation guidelines

2013-12-15 Thread Bob Briscoe
Fred, Jonathan Morton, Michael Scharf & I took Naeem's question to mean "What should an AQM assume the size of a good burst is?" whereas I think you and David C-B took the question to mean "What should an end-system take the size of a good burst to be?". Naeem, could you clarify which you we