hi
( 05.02.25 17:13 -0500 ) Greg London:
So, if Certification convinces Mike to allow
perl, and Eve isn't an idiot, it's an overall win.
and if elephants had wings, they'd be the biggest birds by far.
--
\js oblique strategy: ask people to work against their better judgement
John Saylor said:
hi
( 05.02.25 16:56 -0500 ) James Linden Rose, III:
Certification for Perl will certainly NOT raise the intellectual bar
of its practitioners, but it will certainly make many more people into
converts on both the programmer and the manager side of the equation.
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i still have my cert that i bought from them for my $2! it is all the
perl cert i need.
At the very least there should be a Perl hacker test (I haven't seen one).
Here's a start... I'll be glad to maintain this (if there's been
others, please let
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 10:01:32AM -0500, Greg London wrote:
From a game-theory point of view, I think certification is an overall win.
The worst case scenario for certification would be that gurus have to
get their manager to pay for them to take the test.
The worst case scenario for no
On Monday, February 28, 2005, at 09:28 AM, John Saylor wrote:
hi
( 05.02.25 16:56 -0500 ) James Linden Rose, III:
Certification for Perl will certainly NOT raise the intellectual bar
of its practitioners, but it will certainly make many more people into
converts on both the programmer and the
Adam Turoff said:
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 10:01:32AM -0500, Greg London wrote:
From a game-theory point of view, I think certification is an overall win.
The worst case scenario for certification would be that gurus have to
get their manager to pay for them to take the test.
The worst case
On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 11:16 -0500, Adam Turoff wrote:
The number of Perl job openings today, during the boom, or during the
bust is largely irrelevant. Java was supposed to be the programming
languages to end all programming languages. It wasn't then, and it
isn't now. Interestingly, the
On Feb 28, 2005, at 11:18 AM, James Linden Rose, III wrote:
they could then use their certified credentials to suggest Perl for
real world problem solving.
How about an intermediate step: self-testing.
For example, one of the non-corporate Perl sites could set up a free
automated test. Users
Has anyone had a chance to play with pugs?
I just svned down a copy and was going to toy with it a bit.
cheers,
b
--
it would be horrid to be robbed
by the wrong kind of people
-archy
Don Marquis, the big bad wolf, 1935
On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 12:51, Benjamin Kram wrote:
Has anyone had a chance to play with pugs?
I just svned down a copy and was going to toy with it a bit.
Only a little bit. I am, however, sure that the correct way to boost the
popularity of your favorite niche language is to write a compiler /
On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 13:32, Aaron Sherman wrote:
On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 12:51, Benjamin Kram wrote:
Has anyone had a chance to play with pugs?
I just svned down a copy and was going to toy with it a bit.
Only a little bit. I am, however, sure that the correct way to boost the
popularity
Ruby is easier for Perl people to get into than Haskell. By the same
token, learning Ruby will expand your horizons less than Haskell.
Which is preferable depends on your point of view.
Cheers,
Ben
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:49:59 -0500, Benjamin Kram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I just grabbed
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 01:40:35PM -0500, Kenneth A Graves wrote:
I haven't gotten around to playing with Pugs yet, but I did build
Haskell this weekend. It's a functional-programming conspiracy.
It must be: I am using LISP, after a long hiatus, and really liking it. I
simply did not
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 03:43:24PM -0500, Aaron Sherman wrote:
On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 15:39, Gyepi SAM wrote:
As I recall, there are quite a few cross language programmers on this
list...
I've never used cross, but I hear it's a great language. What do you use
it for?
Warding off zombie
Aaron Sherman wrote:
On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 15:39, Gyepi SAM wrote:
As I recall, there are quite a few
cross language programmers on this list...
I've never used cross, but I hear it's
a great language. What do you use it for?
It's most useful for stuff like
Hey, you kids! Get off
Bogart Salzberg wrote:
How about an intermediate step: self-testing.
Others have already mentioned Brainbench. 3 or 4 years ago I actually
saw a few Perl programmer resumes with Brainbench certifications listed.
I'm sure if a bunch of Perl people wanted to write a better test,
Brainbench would
Sean Quinlan wrote:
I also strongly concur with brian_d_foy's goal of getting more people
(including myself ;) publishing well written articles about Perl. I
think getting more well-written technical articles, that just happen to
use Perl, into general computing periodical is a great, unobtrusive
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:04:34 -0500, Tom Metro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sean Quinlan wrote:
[...]
If Amazon, Yahoo, Ticketmaster, etc. are already using Perl in a big
way, then why not put effort into making that more visible?
One way is through a silly button campaign. Built with Perl,
Ben Tilly wrote:
...the next step would be getting the big name
users of Perl to put [buttons] on their sites.
This step is easier said than done.
Absolutely. I thought of the reasons you list, but the counter argument
is that a company would promote their use of Perl for the same reasons
they
Adam Turoff wrote:
- Another reason why Perl is a minority language is that it's not
used in academic curricula.
An interesting point.
Sean Quinlan writes:
I agree. I'd love to hear suggestions how to work on that. We teach some
Perl at BU, both under the bioinformatics program
John Tsangaris wrote:
Is a group needed specifically for the promotion of perl?
Might not be a bad idea. It could either be a sub-group of the Perl
Foundation, or mirror it, with the focus on advocacy.
But I don't think advertising would be an efficient way to spend the
money. Instead spend it
Tom Metro said:
A few years ago I hired an instructor to teach a group of junior
developers OO programming.
Next time you're thinking of doing this, shoot me an email.
http://www.greglondon.com/iperl
From zero-perl/zero-OO to basic OO-perl in about a hundred pages.
If I could write standalone programs for windows in perl, and be
able to share those programs with my non-perl collegues at work
without over head of them having to install perl separately, would
work wonders for general acceptance of the language. I understand
that I can bundled perl itself
From: James Linden Rose, III [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:42:06 PM US/Eastern
To: Adam Turoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Boston.pm] (also) Perl
On Monday, February 28, 2005, at 12:46 PM, Adam Turoff wrote:
Another worst case for certification is that the community bifurcates
On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 15:39, Tom Metro wrote:
As others have argued on the list, as programmers we know certifications
are pointless as a technical qualification, but we're not the audience
that needs to be convinced otherwise.
I disagree. A certification says that you have a certain
On Mon, 2005-02-28 at 16:39 -0500, Tom Metro wrote:
I was skeptical that such things actually added to one's programming
efficiency. My friend wasn't an IDE junkie. He spent plenty of years
working on the command line and with text editors. His opinion was that
these bits of automation
After learning Quanta for web development I'm much more interested in
looking at improved coding tool for Perl. I've played with Eclipse a
little, and intend to get back to it when I have a a couple tuits. I'm
not interested in WYSIWYG editors. But here's something you basic text
editor
* Sean Quinlan sean at quinlan.org [2005/02/28 18:12]:
[...] But here's something you basic text
editor doesn't give you that I think Eclipse does. Function jumping (or
whatever it's called). I'd _LOVE_ to be able to click (or highlight and
meta-somthing, whatever) on a function or method call
From: Sean Quinlan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:12:00 -0500
After learning Quanta for web development I'm much more interested in
looking at improved coding tool for Perl. I've played with Eclipse a
little, and intend to get back to it when I have a a couple tuits.
From: James Linden Rose, III
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Boston.pm] (also) Perl
From: James Linden Rose, III [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:42:06 PM US/Eastern
To: Adam Turoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Boston.pm] (also) Perl
On Monday,
--- Sean Quinlan mumbled on 2005-02-28 18.12.00 -0500 ---
Function jumping (or
whatever it's called). I'd _LOVE_ to be able to click (or highlight and
meta-somthing, whatever) on a function or method call and have the
editor skip directly to it's definition - even if it is from another
module
Hello fellow Mongers,
I have a bookish request: does anybody have an editorial contact at O'Reilly I
can exchange a few ideas with? I am cooking a proposal for them and I need a
few tips here and there.
Best - Federico
_
-- 'Problem' is a bleak word
On Monday, February 28, 2005, at 07:41 PM, Ben Tilly wrote:
What don't you believe? That there are rabidly anti-certification
people? That many prominent Perl programmers are among
them? If you doubt that, then I'll call you reality-challenged to
your face and point you in the general direction
I'd start with http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/intro.html.
Cheers,
Ben
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 01:52:29 +, Federico Lucifredi
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello fellow Mongers,
I have a bookish request: does anybody have an editorial contact at O'Reilly
I can exchange a few ideas with? I
An (improved) argument for a bottom-up approach to boosting Perl...
A bottom-up approach does not directly address the issue at hand,
Perl's reputation among important decision-makers. But as an indirect
factor it may be more effective than the top-down buzz of a Perl
Inside marketing campaign.
Tom Metro wrote:
It would be a start, though I'm not so sure that Brainbench's
web-based, open book tests are close enough to a certification to have
the intended effect.
A self-testing program *need not* suck.
Here are four reasons why a home-grown testing program would be (could
be) better
On Monday, February 28, 2005, at 08:03 PM, John Redford wrote:
I am anti-certification. Why? To put it extremely bluntly:
certifications
are socialist. People who believe in certifications have the same naïf
mentality as people who believe in socialism.
This sounds like an opinion that's going
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 02:40:10PM -0500, Greg London wrote:
My worst case scenario assumed that programmers knew that perl was the
best language for the job at hand.
So, your analysis is limited to only those who accept that Perl is the
best language for the job? Hm
My point remains: if
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 03:01:46PM -0500, Sean Quinlan wrote:
The last time Perl had an upsurge in popularity, it
was because Perl solved a new class of problem better than anything
else. Might I suggest that the best way to increase adoption is to
learn from our past successes instead
I think I just figured out why this conversation is going nowhere.
The pro-certification folks think that certification would help
convince a non-technical manager to use perl for a project.
The programmers would determine that perl is the right language
for the job on a technical basis. The
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