Re: [Full-disclosure] Re: recursive DNS servers DDoS as a growing DDoSproblem

2006-03-20 Thread Bram Matthys (Syzop)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Robert Story wrote: Exactly. The attackers do use EDNS0 [RFC2671], which allows clients to declare the maximum size of UDP message they are willing to handle. So the spoofed packet sets this value to whatever they want. MS So, you can send a

Re: [Full-disclosure] Re: recursive DNS servers DDoS as a growing DDoSproblem

2006-03-17 Thread Måns Nilsson
--On den 8 mars 2006 14.58.20 -0500 gboyce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Security Lists wrote: Sorry, I don't see this as amplification in your example, because YOUR dns servers are 100% of the traffic. 1:1 ratio. Once the first request to the nameservers is made, the

Re: [Full-disclosure] Re: recursive DNS servers DDoS as a growing DDoSproblem

2006-03-17 Thread Robert Story
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:55:21 -0700 Mark wrote: MS Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that DNS MS responses that go over the max size of a UDP datagram won't get split MS into multiple UDP datagrams. Rather, a response with only partial MS data will be sent back, and the client

RE: [Full-disclosure] Re: recursive DNS servers DDoS as a growing DDoSproblem

2006-03-10 Thread Geo.
In the scenario you describe, I cannot see any actual amplification... I'll give you a senario where you can see. lets say you have 2 name servers that are local to you. I setup a domain, example.com. In this domain I create a text record which is 100K in length, I don't know, perhaps I paste

Re: [Full-disclosure] Re: recursive DNS servers DDoS as a growing DDoSproblem

2006-03-10 Thread Mark Senior
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that DNS responses that go over the max size of a UDP datagram won't get split into multiple UDP datagrams. Rather, a response with only partial data will be sent back, and the client has to reconnect over TCP to get the full data. RFC 2671

Re: [Full-disclosure] Re: recursive DNS servers DDoS as a growing DDoSproblem

2006-03-10 Thread Security Lists
Sorry, I don't see this as amplification in your example, because YOUR dns servers are 100% of the traffic. 1:1 ratio. Now, if you get the world to cache your text records, and have THEM flood with source-spoofed UDP (unrelated to the victim's DNS servers), that'd work, and is actually a

Re: [Full-disclosure] Re: recursive DNS servers DDoS as a growing DDoSproblem

2006-03-10 Thread gboyce
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006, Security Lists wrote: Sorry, I don't see this as amplification in your example, because YOUR dns servers are 100% of the traffic. 1:1 ratio. Once the first request to the nameservers is made, the object should be cached by the nameservers. Instead of one packet to each