Re: [Cake] [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat

2022-10-12 Thread David P. Reed via Cake
Bob -   I think it is great that Cisco has been looking at controlling buffer size in datacenters. However, I'm actually quite skeptical of the analysis here.   I think what is going on is that operating system scheduling delays (typical Linux scheduling of ACK packet generation for the TCP stack

Re: [Cake] [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat

2022-10-12 Thread Bob McMahon via Cake
With full respect to open source projects like OpenWRT, I think from an energy, performance & going forward perspective the AP forwarding plane will be realized by "transistor engineers." This makes the awareness around bloat by network engineers needed even more because those design cycles take

Re: [Cake] [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat

2022-10-11 Thread Dave Taht via Cake
Well, we've all been yammering for many years, and the message is getting through. Yes, at this point, changing the message to be more directed at engineers than users would help, and to this day, I don't know how to get to anyone in the C suite, except through the complaints of their kids. Jim

Re: [Cake] [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat

2022-10-11 Thread Rich Brown via Cake
> On Oct 11, 2022, at 1:05 PM, Bob McMahon wrote: > > I agree that bufferbloat awareness is a good thing. The issue I have is the > approach - ask consumers to "detect it" and replace a device with a new one, > that may or may not, meet all the needs of the users. > > Better is that

Re: [Cake] [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat

2022-10-11 Thread Bob McMahon via Cake
I agree that bufferbloat awareness is a good thing. The issue I have is the approach - ask consumers to "detect it" and replace a device with a new one, that may or may not, meet all the needs of the users. Better is that network engineers "design bloat out" from the beginning starting by

Re: [Cake] [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat

2022-10-11 Thread Dave Taht via Cake
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:58 AM Bob McMahon via Rpm wrote: > > > Saturate a link in both directions simultaneously with multiple greedy > > flows while measuring load-dependent latency changes for small isochronous > > probe flows. > > This functionality is released in iperf 2.1.8 per the

Re: [Cake] [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat

2022-10-11 Thread Rich Brown via Cake
> On Oct 10, 2022, at 8:05 PM, Bob McMahon via Rpm > wrote: > > > I think conflating bufferbloat with latency misses the subtle point in that > > bufferbloat is a measurement in memory units more than a measurement in > > time units. Yes, but... I am going to praise this video, even as I