Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of B-factor (pedantry)

2011-10-13 Thread Ian Tickle
Yet Uaniso's are multiplied by 1 and stored as integers with no problem! -- Ian On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 1:44 AM, James Holton jmhol...@lbl.gov wrote: I think the PDB decided to store B instead of U because unless the B factor was 80, there would always be a leading 0. in that column, and

[ccp4bb] Definition of B-factor (pedantry)

2011-10-12 Thread Phil Evans
I've been struggling a bit to understand the definition of B-factors, particularly anisotropic Bs, and I think I've finally more-or-less got my head around the various definitions of B, U, beta etc, but one thing puzzles me. It seems to me that the natural measure of length in reciprocal space

Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of B-factor (pedantry)

2011-10-12 Thread Eleanor Dodson
Not sure if this is helpful Phil, but SCALEIT output includes various definitions taken from the Willis and Prior book. But then there is the problem of converting the amplitude B factors to real space.. I attach my anisotropy notes.. It doesnt address the ? of sensible conventions!! E On

Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of B-factor (pedantry)

2011-10-12 Thread Ian Tickle
Hi Phil My understanding is that when the B factor was devised it was believed that it wouldn't represent any physical reality and was initially at least widely regarded as a garbage dump for errors. So it made no difference whether or not it was related to the natural length in reciprocal

Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of B-factor (pedantry)

2011-10-12 Thread Pavel Afonine
This may answer some of your questions or at least give pointers: Grosse-Kunstleve RW, Adams PD: On the handling of atomic anisotropic displacement parameters. Journal of Applied Crystallography 2002, 35, 477-480. http://cci.lbl.gov/~rwgk/my_papers/iucr/ks0128_reprint.pdf Pavel On Wed, Oct 12,

Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of B-factor (pedantry)

2011-10-12 Thread Phil Evans
Indeed that paper does lay out clearly the various definitions, thank you, but I note that you do explicitly discourage use of B (= 8 pi^2 U), and don't explain why the factor is 8 rather than 2 (ie why it multiplies (d*/2)^2 rather than d*^2). I think James Holton's reminder that the

Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of B-factor (pedantry)

2011-10-12 Thread James Holton
I think the PDB decided to store B instead of U because unless the B factor was 80, there would always be a leading 0. in that column, and that would just be a pitiful waste of two bytes. At the time the PDB was created, I understand bytes cost about $100 each! (But that could be a slight

Re: [ccp4bb] Definition of B-factor (pedantry)

2011-10-12 Thread Frances C. Bernstein
At this point I usually chime in with an explanation of why the Protein Data Bank made some choice or other in the early days but on the matter of U vs. B I have not information to contribute. I can point out the at that time characters were stored in display code on a CDC 6600 and display code